When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen: :geek: :ugeek:

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by Maol » Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:55 pm

ForumModerator wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:49 pm moderator note:
maol wrote:Pure genius there, isn't it. Just what this crabstand needs is less traffic.
Doesn't that say something about you? You are hanging around a place that you consider to be a "crabstand".

I like crab and consider it a delicacy. Semantics or regional lingo perhaps, but living near the ocean a crabstand is a place that isn't always there but when it is you are glad to see it because it is where you get the freshest catch.
Groucho Marx wrote: 'I'd never join a club that would allow a person like me to become a member.'
The present Rules and Guidelines (see link below) have been in effect on this forum since 2008

Posting Limits prevent the flooding of the forum with an endless amount of posts intended to obfuscate and sabotage the functioning of the boards.
The blatant disregard of a moderator warning will not be tolerated.
Are you familiar with Plato's Dialogues and his theory of knowledge?

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by ForumModerator » Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:49 pm

moderator note:
maol wrote:Pure genius there, isn't it. Just what this crabstand needs is less traffic.
Doesn't that say something about you? You are hanging around a place that you consider to be a "crabstand".
Groucho Marx wrote: 'I'd never join a club that would allow a person like me to become a member.'
The present Rules and Guidelines (see link below) have been in effect on this forum since 2008

Posting Limits prevent the flooding of the forum with an endless amount of posts intended to obfuscate and sabotage the functioning of the boards.
The blatant disregard of a moderator warning will not be tolerated.

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by Maol » Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:14 pm

mcfc16 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:35 pm
Maol wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:28 pm
No, it is not "all heading outward". What do you think powers the Aurora?
Yes it is. What powers the aurorae is the solar wind. Which heads OUT from the Sun. Once it gets into the Earth's magnetosphere interesting things happen, including magnetic reconnection, which sends the electrons from the magnetotail back towards the Earth's poles. However, the solar wind heads outwards from the Sun at all latitudes. As observed. It carries the Sun's magnetic field with it, all the way to the heliopause. And electrons (or ions) are not getting past that field unless they have very high energies.

My bad, I didin't read close enough and took it in the context of the observation of Oxygen flowing outward from Earth's poles, whereas the mass in the solar wind flows into Earth's poles.
If you post again. I'll probably leave it until tomorrow to reply. I got told off for posting too much the other day!
Pure genius there, isn't it. Just what this crabstand needs is less traffic.

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by jackokie » Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:28 pm

Hi all. Have you noticed that mcfc16 has managed to get people focused on contesting his assertions (which of course can't be neglected) rather than the other topics we've been exploring? @BeAChooser in particular has been prolific in posting an amazing amount of info and helpful links; I have no idea where he finds the time. Folks, Eric Lerner's chutzpah in challenging the BB at IAI.TV a few months ago seems to be paying off; the number of favorable comments to his videos seems to be much larger than on similar topics a year ago, and they seem to be better informed as well. Perhaps that's why mcfc16 (AKA Bob Smith, AKA Plasma Physics 101, AKA ian w) in desperation has moved his Dezinformatsia operation to our site.

I can't guarantee that it will make a difference, but Lerner's willingness to engage deserves more than just our sniping at the BB from here; it deserves support on those comment threads from everyone who supports the EU model. I don't know what Lerner thinks of the EU model, and I don't care if he thinks it's rubbish; support and promotion of the EU model are pointless unless the BB's stranglehold on astrophysics is broken. Please give him your support in the comment threads of his videos by reinforcing the evidence for the BB's failures and helping clarify things when other commenters ask questions you can answer. Please don't leave it to others to do the heavy lifting. The contest of ideas has moved to youtube; let your voice be heard. Thanks.

BTW, in today's DailyMail online there's another popsci article that scales new heights of silliness, in case you're ready for a good laugh.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... phere.html

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by mcfc16 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:35 pm

Maol wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:28 pm
No, it is not "all heading outward". What do you think powers the Aurora?
Yes it is. What powers the aurorae is the solar wind. Which heads OUT from the Sun. Once it gets into the Earth's magnetosphere interesting things happen, including magnetic reconnection, which sends the electrons from the magnetotail back towards the Earth's poles. However, the solar wind heads outwards from the Sun at all latitudes. As observed. It carries the Sun's magnetic field with it, all the way to the heliopause. And electrons (or ions) are not getting past that field unless they have very high energies.

If you post again. I'll probably leave it until tomorrow to reply. I got told off for posting too much the other day!

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by Maol » Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:28 pm

mcfc16 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:14 pm
jacmac wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:40 pm Therefore, I caution against saying Ulysses was OVER the solar poles.
It certainly was way above the sun but not really In the plasma stream directly above the poles.
I am only suggesting that as good as Ulysses was there might be plasma conditions more directly over the poles
very different from what Ulysses detected.
Why would it be different over the poles? We study the plasma and fields at the poles from Earth, and possibly from orbit. It is all heading outward. Were it not, it would be very obvious. We don't need to wait for an eclipse. You fit one of those whatsits, whose name escapes me, to the telescope, which blocks out the light from the disc.
No, it is not "all heading outward". What do you think powers the Aurora?

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by mcfc16 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:14 pm

jacmac wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:40 pm Therefore, I caution against saying Ulysses was OVER the solar poles.
It certainly was way above the sun but not really In the plasma stream directly above the poles.
I am only suggesting that as good as Ulysses was there might be plasma conditions more directly over the poles
very different from what Ulysses detected.
Why would it be different over the poles? We study the plasma and fields at the poles from Earth, and possibly from orbit. It is all heading outward. Were it not, it would be very obvious. We don't need to wait for an eclipse. You fit one of those whatsits, whose name escapes me, to the telescope, which blocks out the light from the disc.

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by mcfc16 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:10 pm

Maol wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:30 pm The Ulysses space probe detected galactic electrons entering the solar system. Ulysses' orbit was over the solar poles, where the sun's magnetic field is weaker, instead of in the usual ecliptic plane.

this is a snip from the abstract here https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ar_minimum

Ulysses observation that the galactic cosmic ray electron flux exceeds the one of the protons by more than 30% in 2008 and 2009, we conclude that charge sign dependent effects (drifts) are of major importance for calculating galactic cosmic ray intensities.

another here https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19720060880

Observation of a quiet-time component of interplanetary electrons having energies above solar-wind energies and below those characterized as cosmic radiation. The energy spectrum of this component generally falls with energy from 18 keV to 1.8 MeV, but shows a feature in the 100 to 300-keV range. The observed temporal variations of the intensity suggest that the 18 to 100-keV portion is solar and that the 0.3 to 1.8-MeV portion is galactic in origin. Solar and terrestrial neutron-decay electrons appear inadequate to explain the 100 to 300-keV feature.
Yep, cosmic rays. High energy electrons. I already said they can get in. What they cannot do is just drift at half-rat power towards the sun. And they are easily detected because of their energies. There aren't enough of them to power much of anything.
Juergens' original model posited a huge potential between the Sun and heliosphere which most certainly would have resulted in relativistic electrons. I think Scott realised how fatal those electrons would be as they smashed into the night side of our planet! And how easily detectable they are, and how there aren't enough of them. So, he went with 'drift' electrons, which are so slow that spacecraft cannot detect them. God of the gaps type thing. What he didn't realise that it is the combined speed of the electrons and the spacecraft that determine whether they will be detected. And the spacecraft velocity is not inconsiderable, usually. If they were there (impossible) they would be detected. They aren't there.
You cannot get a drift electron past a magnetic field moving in the opposite direction at ~ 400 km/s. Basic plasma physics.
Apart from anything else, we know how the Sun is powered.

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by Maol » Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:05 pm

jacmac wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:40 pm Maol said:
Ulysses' orbit was over the solar poles, where the sun's magnetic field is weaker,
I remember that the angle of the orbit of Ulysses was about 82 degrees, once in it's full orbit.
Also, the average radius was very large. My calculation at the time placed Ulysses about 30 million miles
to the side of the sun axis of rotation line. Therefore, I caution against saying Ulysses was OVER the solar poles.
It certainly was way above the sun but not really In the plasma stream directly above the poles.
I am only suggesting that as good as Ulysses was there might be plasma conditions more directly over the poles
very different from what Ulysses detected.
Recognizing there is always a shortcoming in satisfying our desire for perfection, nevertheless, Ulysses (and other probes) detected electrons determined to be of galactic origin.

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by jacmac » Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:40 pm

Maol said:
Ulysses' orbit was over the solar poles, where the sun's magnetic field is weaker,
I remember that the angle of the orbit of Ulysses was about 82 degrees, once in it's full orbit.
Also, the average radius was very large. My calculation at the time placed Ulysses about 30 million miles
to the side of the sun axis of rotation line. Therefore, I caution against saying Ulysses was OVER the solar poles.
It certainly was way above the sun but not really In the plasma stream directly above the poles.
I am only suggesting that as good as Ulysses was there might be plasma conditions more directly over the poles
very different from what Ulysses detected.

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by mcfc16 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:16 pm

Cargo wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:27 am
Clearly you're not saying Red Shift doesn't exist? I thought you were educated in something about space science.
There's a science based book called Seeing Red. Look it up and Check It Out.
You mean Arp's nonsense? He was long ago shown to be wrong.

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by Cargo » Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:27 am

mcfc16 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:38 pm
Cargo wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:32 am
mcfc16 wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:12 pm
Cargo wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:47 am
colliding galaxy clusters
Doctor mcfc16, we have a Red Shift problem. How do you plan to hide it?
What redshift problem is that? Please be specific.
The Doctor's solution then is to ignore it because he's unknowingly ignorant I assume. I'll wait until after you discover Seeing Red.
How can I ignore something that doesn't exist, and that you cannot spell out in scientific terms?
Clearly you're not saying Red Shift doesn't exist? I thought you were educated in something about space science.
There's a science based book called Seeing Red. Look it up and Check It Out.

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by ForumModerator » Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:02 am

You stated that Scott's drift was not possible because electrons could never get through the heliopause. This is a straw man argument. Scott's model has electron drift toward the Sun taking place inside of the heliosphere, ie within the solar system.

Nevertheless, the electrons which are entering the Solar System have been discovered by the Voyagers. You chastised me for pointing that out, saying that they were actually cosmic rays and I should have read the original article. But again this is nothing but a misdirection on your part. The news release conveyed that information, so reading the original paper was not necessary since the information I was looking for was contained in the news article. This is not just a news release from my local town newspaper, it is an official release from NASA. And it states that high energy electrons are entering the Solar System and in great quantities. This is consistent with the Electric Sun theory. If you consider the mind boggling size of the surface area of the heliopause there would certainly be enough of these galactic electrons to power the Sun.

Note the bold sentence: here is an opportunity for you, as professional plasma researcher, to investigate in an objective fashion. Where do all of these high energy galactic electrons entering through the heliopause go once they are in the solar system? Perhaps there is a Nobel Prize for the scientist that finds the real source of power for the Sun. Of course, as a gentleman and a scholar, it would only be fair if you shared the award with Dr. Scott.

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by BeAChooser » Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:52 pm

Maol wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:06 pm A knowm joke, I thought you'd get it. It was a test. You didn't pass it.
Darn! Must be because of my Schizencephaly. ;)

Re: When Physicists DON'T Focus Their Lives On DM

by Maol » Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:30 pm

The Ulysses space probe detected galactic electrons entering the solar system. Ulysses' orbit was over the solar poles, where the sun's magnetic field is weaker, instead of in the usual ecliptic plane.

this is a snip from the abstract here https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ar_minimum

Ulysses observation that the galactic cosmic ray electron flux exceeds the one of the protons by more than 30% in 2008 and 2009, we conclude that charge sign dependent effects (drifts) are of major importance for calculating galactic cosmic ray intensities.

another here https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19720060880

Observation of a quiet-time component of interplanetary electrons having energies above solar-wind energies and below those characterized as cosmic radiation. The energy spectrum of this component generally falls with energy from 18 keV to 1.8 MeV, but shows a feature in the 100 to 300-keV range. The observed temporal variations of the intensity suggest that the 18 to 100-keV portion is solar and that the 0.3 to 1.8-MeV portion is galactic in origin. Solar and terrestrial neutron-decay electrons appear inadequate to explain the 100 to 300-keV feature.

Top