by Lloyd » Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:11 am
Ted, I've started looking into your model a little now. I've seen parts of it before. Have you seen mine? Mine isn't well organized yet, but I've been working on it on this forum for a couple years now at
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... 6795#p6795 that being the most recent post.
Below is something I started writing this morning. It's not edited enough yet for my thread, but I'll post what I have here for now. After reading your discussion of planetary tilts yesterday, I thought more about what that might entail for my model. I'm not confident that tilts are very permanent, and it seems that Earth's axis tilt may have gone through some changes. And Miles Mathis has a paper claiming that the tilts are caused by the planetary positions in the present solar system. So I'm open-minded on the issue and here I'm showing what might be the case if your argument is right about tilts.
In this writing, I'm trying to list as many significant features and events as I can about Earth's history and place them in a timeline tentatively. I'll comment a little more on one of the statements in your model below.
Ancient Saturn Dwarf Star system
_It consisted of a line or train of planets etc in this order, i.e. Jupiter with its Moons, Saturn with its Moons, Venus, Mars, Earth, Neptune & a polar column of dust & debris connecting them all.
_Uranus, Mercury, Pluto, Asteroids, Comets & debris may also have accompanied the train.
_Stars & Planets likely form in filaments via electrical implosion as per Charles Chandler.
_So the train may have been forming with the Sun being a distant part that the train was approaching.
_NOTE: Cardona thought Jupiter followed Earth, whereas Talbott thought it preceded Saturn. It makes more sense if Talbott was right, because when Saturn probably later left the train near the Asteroid Belt and Jupiter replaced Saturn, Jupiter was likely in the lead position where it provided heat for Earth so that life did not freeze to death while moving to its present orbit. Saturn may have encountered Jupiter as the former began to leave the train, which may have changed Jupiter's axis tilt. And Jupiter's new axis tilt may have affected Venus' tilt as well, since it was next in line after Jupiter when Saturn left. The other planets retained Saturn's tilt, except for Uranus, Mercury & Pluto, which may have been jostled around during the extended breakup of the train.
_Below I'll call the ancient Saturn system the SATURN TRAIN.
_Question marks indicate that the time of the event or feature is less certain.
__4,000 BC
SATURN TRAIN: passed through the Kuiper Belt & reached the orbit of Pluto
SATURN: was dimly VISIBLE from Earth
OTHER PLANETS: were NOT VISIBLE
?NEPTUNE: left the Train, retaining Saturn's Tilt
?URANUS: left the Train, but tripped on something & got an eccentric Tilt, while its Moons retained its previous Tilt
EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE: was THICK (or at least a little thicker, since impacts surely removed some of it. But maybe some impacts or flare-ups replenished it. I saw your video on the Dinosaurs and am rethinking the thickness.)
EARTH'S LANDMASS: was the PANGAEA SUPERCONTINENT
PANGAEA'S INHABITANTS: were
.DINOSAURS
.LYCOPOD TREES, FORESTS
.EARLY MAMMALS
.EARLY HUMANS
-----
__3,000 BC
SATURN TRAIN: reached the orbit of Saturn
?SATURN: went NOVA due to reaching the Sun's electric current sheet
PANGAEA: was all lowland
PANGAEA FLOOD: was caused by
AN ELLIPTICALLY ORBITING ASTEROID OR MOON: which caused tsunamis & the Flood
AN ASTEROID SWARM: caused many impacts
EARTH'S IMPACT BASINS: have the thickest sediments
?MOON IMPACT CRATERS: formed & the Moon was NOT VISIBLE yet
FLOOD DEPOSITS: were Sedimentary Strata, Coal, Oil & Fossils
?VOLCANOES & EARTHQUAKES: possibly occurred
-----
SATURN TRAIN: SATURN, SATURN MOONS, VENUS, MARS & THE POLAR DUST COLUMN became VISIBLE; OTHERS remained INVISIBLE
PANGAEA:
?CHICXULUB IMPACT: caused tsunami to North Dakota
NORTHWEST PANGAEA HAD AN ICE SHEET: covering most of Canada, NW. U.S. & W. Europe
ICE-FREE PANGAEA HAD A GOLDEN AGE: in Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, Antarctica, South America, S. North America
DINOSAUR EXTINCTION: occurred due to impacts & flooding
ADVANCED CIVILIZATION Sumeria, Egypt {first Intermediate Period}, Tiahuanaco ...
GIANT MAMMALS
FORESTS
MODERATELY THICK ATMOSPHERE Some loss due to impacts
?SATURN DUAL WATER STREAMS ORBIT
?VENUS SPIRAL ORBIT
?GIANT MARS
?VENUS & MARS RETURN TO SATURN
?POLAR COLUMN RETREAT
-----
__2,300 BC
ASTEROID SWARM at Asteroid Belt
?SATURN NOVA
PANGAEA
CONFLAGRATION from Nova heat
ICE SHEET IMPACTS NW Pangaea: MI, Greenland,
SECONDARY IMPACTS Carolina Bays, Nebraska basins, ?MN craters, North Sea craters
ICE SHEET MELT FLOODS from Conflagration & Impacts
MAGMA FLOODS, VOLCANOES & EARTHQUAKES Washington, India, Siberia
HUDSON BAY IMPACT
MOON CRATERS, MOON INVISIBLE
SEYCHELLES ASTEROID IMPACT near east Africa
SHOCK DYNAMICS
PANGAEA BREAKUP
MID OCEAN RIDGE formed above sea level (another clue from Velikovsky)
ATLANTIC & INDIAN OCEANS formed
SEPARATED CONTINENTS
MOUNTAIN CHAINS formed
GIANT MAMMALS EXTINCTION
CIVILIZATION SETBACK Egypt second Intermediate Period, Tiahuanaco Flood & Uplift ...
YELLOWSTONE SUPERVOLCANO STRING formed in quick succession
PANGAEA BREAKUP FLOODS
FLOOD DEPOSITS last one or two megasequences, Zuni, Tejas
?NOVA OR IMPACTS DEPOSITS iridium, nanodiamonds ...
?GRAND CANYON formed
?ANTARCTIC CANYON formed
ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET formed
GREENLAND ICE SHEET REMNANT remained
?SATURN DEPARTURE
?JUPITER ARRIVAL
MOON ARRIVAL
?TAURID METEOR STREAM FORMATION
THINNER ATMOSPHERE from more impacts
JUPITER (taking over from Saturn) WARMS EARTH from Asteroid Belt to present Orbit
-----
BRONZE AGE, CIVILIZATION REBUILT
SATURN-JUPITER RELIGIONS & MYTHS spread
TAURID METEORS continued to cause occasional local cataclysms usually around Halloween
Ganymede Hypothesis - Pangaea?
I started to read your PDF on that and here's an excerpt.
The continental mass of the planet doesn’t end up in one place for no reason, it gets PULLED into one place by some titanic force of attraction. Basically, the center of Pangaea was sitting on the high point of the egg on an egg-shaped planet. That is the reason for the greater curvature of the Pangaean tectonic plates; no Earth expansion was required. Pico Island (Portuguese Azores) is the center of the north Atlantic Bulge and appears to have been the center of the Earth during the Saturnian age.
That's similar to what I've been thinking lately. But instead of the Azores as the point below Saturn, I thought it might be the Giza pyramid that was directly under Saturn, because the pyramid (and the sphinx) was built before the last Great Flood (Younger Dryas IMO) and the pyramid is said to be in the middle of the land masses of the Earth. And a map of Pangaea before the megasequences of sedimentary rock were deposited in the first Great Flood and somewhat in the YF Flood shows that Giza and Tiahuanaco were on opposite shores before Pangaea broke up (during the YD event) and Bellamy or someone said the same people occupied both "cities" before the Flood. Velikovsky suggested that Tiahuanaco was at sea level before it was raised to its present height. And I came to agree with that.
Maybe we can have a productive discussion. I tried to have a discussion with Ev Cochrane a few months ago, but he doesn't seem to like to discuss much.
Ted, I've started looking into your model a little now. I've seen parts of it before. Have you seen mine? Mine isn't well organized yet, but I've been working on it on this forum for a couple years now at https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=6795#p6795 that being the most recent post.
Below is something I started writing this morning. It's not edited enough yet for my thread, but I'll post what I have here for now. After reading your discussion of planetary tilts yesterday, I thought more about what that might entail for my model. I'm not confident that tilts are very permanent, and it seems that Earth's axis tilt may have gone through some changes. And Miles Mathis has a paper claiming that the tilts are caused by the planetary positions in the present solar system. So I'm open-minded on the issue and here I'm showing what might be the case if your argument is right about tilts.
In this writing, I'm trying to list as many significant features and events as I can about Earth's history and place them in a timeline tentatively. I'll comment a little more on one of the statements in your model below.
[color=#0000FF]Ancient Saturn Dwarf Star system
_It consisted of a line or train of planets etc in this order, i.e. Jupiter with its Moons, Saturn with its Moons, Venus, Mars, Earth, Neptune & a polar column of dust & debris connecting them all.
_Uranus, Mercury, Pluto, Asteroids, Comets & debris may also have accompanied the train.
_Stars & Planets likely form in filaments via electrical implosion as per Charles Chandler.
_So the train may have been forming with the Sun being a distant part that the train was approaching.
_NOTE: Cardona thought Jupiter followed Earth, whereas Talbott thought it preceded Saturn. It makes more sense if Talbott was right, because when Saturn probably later left the train near the Asteroid Belt and Jupiter replaced Saturn, Jupiter was likely in the lead position where it provided heat for Earth so that life did not freeze to death while moving to its present orbit. Saturn may have encountered Jupiter as the former began to leave the train, which may have changed Jupiter's axis tilt. And Jupiter's new axis tilt may have affected Venus' tilt as well, since it was next in line after Jupiter when Saturn left. The other planets retained Saturn's tilt, except for Uranus, Mercury & Pluto, which may have been jostled around during the extended breakup of the train.
_Below I'll call the ancient Saturn system the SATURN TRAIN.
_Question marks indicate that the time of the event or feature is less certain.
__4,000 BC
SATURN TRAIN: passed through the Kuiper Belt & reached the orbit of Pluto
SATURN: was dimly VISIBLE from Earth
OTHER PLANETS: were NOT VISIBLE
?NEPTUNE: left the Train, retaining Saturn's Tilt
?URANUS: left the Train, but tripped on something & got an eccentric Tilt, while its Moons retained its previous Tilt
EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE: was THICK (or at least a little thicker, since impacts surely removed some of it. But maybe some impacts or flare-ups replenished it. I saw your video on the Dinosaurs and am rethinking the thickness.)
EARTH'S LANDMASS: was the PANGAEA SUPERCONTINENT
PANGAEA'S INHABITANTS: were
.DINOSAURS
.LYCOPOD TREES, FORESTS
.EARLY MAMMALS
.EARLY HUMANS
-----
__3,000 BC
SATURN TRAIN: reached the orbit of Saturn
?SATURN: went NOVA due to reaching the Sun's electric current sheet
PANGAEA: was all lowland
PANGAEA FLOOD: was caused by
AN ELLIPTICALLY ORBITING ASTEROID OR MOON: which caused tsunamis & the Flood
AN ASTEROID SWARM: caused many impacts
EARTH'S IMPACT BASINS: have the thickest sediments
?MOON IMPACT CRATERS: formed & the Moon was NOT VISIBLE yet
FLOOD DEPOSITS: were Sedimentary Strata, Coal, Oil & Fossils
?VOLCANOES & EARTHQUAKES: possibly occurred
-----
SATURN TRAIN: SATURN, SATURN MOONS, VENUS, MARS & THE POLAR DUST COLUMN became VISIBLE; OTHERS remained INVISIBLE
PANGAEA:
?CHICXULUB IMPACT: caused tsunami to North Dakota
NORTHWEST PANGAEA HAD AN ICE SHEET: covering most of Canada, NW. U.S. & W. Europe
ICE-FREE PANGAEA HAD A GOLDEN AGE: in Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, Antarctica, South America, S. North America
DINOSAUR EXTINCTION: occurred due to impacts & flooding
ADVANCED CIVILIZATION Sumeria, Egypt {first Intermediate Period}, Tiahuanaco ...
GIANT MAMMALS
FORESTS
MODERATELY THICK ATMOSPHERE Some loss due to impacts
?SATURN DUAL WATER STREAMS ORBIT
?VENUS SPIRAL ORBIT
?GIANT MARS
?VENUS & MARS RETURN TO SATURN
?POLAR COLUMN RETREAT
-----
__2,300 BC
ASTEROID SWARM at Asteroid Belt
?SATURN NOVA
PANGAEA
CONFLAGRATION from Nova heat
ICE SHEET IMPACTS NW Pangaea: MI, Greenland,
SECONDARY IMPACTS Carolina Bays, Nebraska basins, ?MN craters, North Sea craters
ICE SHEET MELT FLOODS from Conflagration & Impacts
MAGMA FLOODS, VOLCANOES & EARTHQUAKES Washington, India, Siberia
HUDSON BAY IMPACT
MOON CRATERS, MOON INVISIBLE
SEYCHELLES ASTEROID IMPACT near east Africa
SHOCK DYNAMICS
PANGAEA BREAKUP
MID OCEAN RIDGE formed above sea level (another clue from Velikovsky)
ATLANTIC & INDIAN OCEANS formed
SEPARATED CONTINENTS
MOUNTAIN CHAINS formed
GIANT MAMMALS EXTINCTION
CIVILIZATION SETBACK Egypt second Intermediate Period, Tiahuanaco Flood & Uplift ...
YELLOWSTONE SUPERVOLCANO STRING formed in quick succession
PANGAEA BREAKUP FLOODS
FLOOD DEPOSITS last one or two megasequences, Zuni, Tejas
?NOVA OR IMPACTS DEPOSITS iridium, nanodiamonds ...
?GRAND CANYON formed
?ANTARCTIC CANYON formed
ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET formed
GREENLAND ICE SHEET REMNANT remained
?SATURN DEPARTURE
?JUPITER ARRIVAL
MOON ARRIVAL
?TAURID METEOR STREAM FORMATION
THINNER ATMOSPHERE from more impacts
JUPITER (taking over from Saturn) WARMS EARTH from Asteroid Belt to present Orbit
-----
BRONZE AGE, CIVILIZATION REBUILT
SATURN-JUPITER RELIGIONS & MYTHS spread
TAURID METEORS continued to cause occasional local cataclysms usually around Halloween[/color]
[color=#FF0000]Ganymede Hypothesis - Pangaea?[/color]
I started to read your PDF on that and here's an excerpt.
[quote]The continental mass of the planet doesn’t end up in one place for no reason, it gets PULLED into one place by some titanic force of attraction. Basically, the center of Pangaea was sitting on the high point of the egg on an egg-shaped planet. That is the reason for the greater curvature of the Pangaean tectonic plates; no Earth expansion was required. Pico Island (Portuguese Azores) is the center of the north Atlantic Bulge and appears to have been the center of the Earth during the Saturnian age.[/quote]
That's similar to what I've been thinking lately. But instead of the Azores as the point below Saturn, I thought it might be the Giza pyramid that was directly under Saturn, because the pyramid (and the sphinx) was built before the last Great Flood (Younger Dryas IMO) and the pyramid is said to be in the middle of the land masses of the Earth. And a map of Pangaea before the megasequences of sedimentary rock were deposited in the first Great Flood and somewhat in the YF Flood shows that Giza and Tiahuanaco were on opposite shores before Pangaea broke up (during the YD event) and Bellamy or someone said the same people occupied both "cities" before the Flood. Velikovsky suggested that Tiahuanaco was at sea level before it was raised to its present height. And I came to agree with that.
Maybe we can have a productive discussion. I tried to have a discussion with Ev Cochrane a few months ago, but he doesn't seem to like to discuss much.