The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

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Expand view Topic review: The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

I view Steven Chu as a Fauci of AGWalarmism

by BeAChooser » Mon Jun 03, 2024 4:40 am

I say "a" and not "the" because there are many Anthony Fauci's when it comes to AGWalarmism.

Chu was the US Energy Secretary under Obama.

Here's his latest pronouncement ...

https://www.ft.com/content/4e0d1823-8ae ... etype=gift

If you can’t get through he paywall, don’t worry … you didn’t miss anything. He said just what you’d expect an AGWalarmist to say and his track record on such things isn’t very good. Back in 2011, he announced (https://www.americansecurityproject.org ... itive-chu/) “Clean sources of energy such as wind and solar will be no more expensive than oil and gas projects by the end of the decade”. He said “Before maybe the end of this decade, I see wind and solar being cost-competitive without subsidy with new fossil fuel.” The proof that’s not true is that the Biden Administration in Build Back Better 2021 extended the Production Tax Credit (i.e., subsidies on Wind and Solar) for the 14th time. In 2009, Chu, who lives in the San Francisco Bay Area, also warned of drought saying (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html) “I don’t think the American public has gripped in its gut what could happen. We’re looking at a scenario where there’s no more agriculture in California.” Of course, that didn’t happen either.

But at least he’s likely right about one thing. According the the Financial Times article, “On nuclear fusion, which promises almost limitless energy, Chu expects an even longer wait: 'minimum 40 years' to bring a commercial reactor into operation.”

Re: The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

by BeAChooser » Tue May 28, 2024 3:36 am

https://yourstory.com/2024/05/nasa-trou ... e-humanity
NASA is in Trouble! And Why Does it Affect the Future of Humanity?

For 2024, the White House requested $27.2 billion for NASA, but Congress approved only $24.875 billion, an 8.5% reduction from the requested amount . This discrepancy marks the largest gap between requested and appropriated funding for NASA since 1992, forcing the agency to navigate a challenging fiscal environment.

The budget cuts have already led to significant layoffs and delays in crucial projects. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, responsible for the Mars Sample Return mission, announced it would dismiss 530 employees due to funding reductions . The Mars Sample Return mission, initially planned for 2033, now faces a delay until 2040, with its 2024 funding slashed from $949 million to $300 million . This delay is compounded by technical challenges and budget overruns, casting doubt on the mission's feasibility.

Other missions affected include the Chandra X-ray Observatory, which faces budget cuts reducing its funding to below 8% of 2023 levels over the next five years, despite its continued operational functionality . The ambitious James Webb Space Telescope (JWST), although a recent success, exemplifies the financial strain of flagship missions with its costs ballooning to nearly $10 billion from an initial half-billion estimate .

Reason 1: The Burden of Flagship Missions NASA's flagship missions, while groundbreaking, often suffer from significant budget overruns and delays. The JWST is a prime example, with its development costs increasing from an initial estimate of $500 million to nearly $10 billion. This escalation was due to technical challenges, rigorous testing requirements, and multiple errors during the project's development . Such cost overruns have a ripple effect, diverting funds from other critical projects and delaying subsequent missions.

Similarly, the Hubble Space Telescope, proposed in 1977 with a budget of $400 million, was not launched until 1990 at a cost of $1.5 billion. Even then, it required an additional $1.5 billion for in-orbit repairs . These budgetary challenges forced NASA to make severe cuts to other programs, delaying missions like the Laser Interferometer Space Antenna (LISA) and impacting the overall funding landscape for astronomy .

Reason 2: Climate Change: A Growing Threat The impacts of climate change present another significant challenge to NASA's future. As climate change exacerbates, its economic repercussions will increasingly strain federal budgets. The United States currently experiences an extreme weather event causing at least a billion dollars of damage every three weeks . This trend is expected to worsen, with projections estimating climate change could cost the US up to $2 trillion annually by 2100.

These escalating costs will force the government to prioritise immediate climate-related needs over long-term scientific endeavors. NASA's budget, already constrained, may face further cuts as resources are diverted to address the immediate impacts of climate change. This shift in funding priorities could stall or even halt significant scientific missions aimed at exploring the cosmos and understanding our place in it .
Boo Hoo! It’s hard to feel sorry for people who’ve insisted on living off gnomes the last 50 years and who have supported the lie of AGWalarmism, rather than doing real science that might actually help the human race.
Beyond the numbers, these cuts threaten to stifle human curiosity and our drive to explore the cosmos.
That’s garbage. People will remain curious long after the mainstreams gnomes have finally ended up in the trash can. More and more of us are just growing sick and tired of being asked to blindly give them billions and billions for bogus science that will do nothing to improve the lot of those paying for it. Maybe when the astrophysicists and NASA get their house in order, we'll be interested in funding them again.

The future is bright for astronomy, and very expensive

by BeAChooser » Sun May 26, 2024 4:39 pm

https://www.space.com/bright-and-expens ... -astronomy
The next generation of extremely large telescopes will have 100 times the light-gathering power and 10 times the image quality of the Hubble Space Telescope. However, they’re running into serious funding problems. There are two American-led projects with international partners. The Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) project uses a design with 492 mirror segments. It faces headwinds from the opposition of native Hawaiians to construction of another large telescope on Mauna Kea, which they consider to be a sacred site. Another project, the Giant Magellan Telescope (GMT), is combining seven 8.4-meter mirrors to make an effective 25-meter aperture.

The TMT project is stalled as it negotiates a way to begin construction in Hawaii. The GMT and another large telescope being built in Chile, the Rubin Observatory, are facing escalating costs. The pandemic, inflation, and supply chain problems are to blame. TMT and GMT will each cost around $3 billion. Both have philanthropic support, but they also rely on federal funding. For a while, the National Science Foundation (NSF) supported both projects. But recently, the National Science Board set a cap of $1.6 billion on federal support for large telescopes and gave the NSF until May to decide which project to support. One large telescope will be left out in the cold.

… snip …

Space telescopes cost a thousand times more per kilogram than ground-based telescopes, but they're worth their high price. These telescopes gain the benefit of the total darkness of a space environment, and many forms of radiation that these telescopes can observe such as gamma rays, ultraviolet light, and infrared radiation cannot penetrate the Earth’s atmosphere to reach ground-based telescopes. 

One such instrument, the Hubble Space Telescope has run up a total cost of $16 billion since the U.S. Congress approved its mission in 1977. Another, NASA’s James Webb Telescope, faced delays and technical challenges, and its budget ballooned to $5 billion. Its price tag helped it earn the nickname “the telescope that ate astronomy” — and that was in 2010. By the time of its launch in 2021, the price tag had doubled to $10 billion. 

NASA has other exciting missions in the pipeline. The Roman Space Telescope, with a 2.4-meter mirror but a hundred times Hubble’s field of view, is likely to cost over $3 billion, and the Habitable Worlds Observatory, designed to “sniff” the atmospheres of Earth-like planets for traces of biology, will come in around $11 billion.
Add all that up and it's a lot of money. FOR WHAT?

To keep would are astronomers and astrophysicists busy?

How will anything they likely find change life for those paying for these toys?

Re: The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

by BeAChooser » Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:01 pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/us ... r-AA1nfA1x
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. senators from both parties introduce legislation on Thursday to accelerate development of power plants run by nuclear fusion reactions, an emerging technology that one day could help fight climate change.
Let’s rephrase that sentence so it’s more truthful …

Ignorant power hungry authoritarians on both sides of the UNIPARTY race to spend vast amounts of your money on a boondoggle purportedly to solve a non-existent problem but in reality to increase their control over YOU.

Just saying ...

Re: The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

by BeAChooser » Fri Apr 05, 2024 3:50 am

Here’s a recent paper by Eric Lerner with some interesting observations about achieving viable commercial fusion …

https://pubs.aip.org/aip/pop/article/30 ... ion-energy
What are the fastest routes to fusion energy?

In recent years, the effort to develop practical fusion energy has rapidly evolved from a focus on only tokamak and laser inertial devices to include a wide array of approaches. We survey this increasingly diverse set of routes to fusion to assess what approaches are likely to lead to practical fusion with the least outlay of resources and thus are potentially the fastest routes. While a conclusive answer can only be determined once some approach actually succeeds in producing a practical fusion-energy generator, and the speed of advance depends on the allocation of resources, it is possible to arrive at tentative conclusions now. We find that basic, long-standing obstacles make the path to practical fusion more difficult, and more resource-intensive, for all approaches using deuterium fuels (DT, DHe3) as well as for approaches with low-density plasma.
In other words, he's questioning whether efforts like JET, ITER, KSTAR, Commonwealth Fusion Systems (CFS), and other tokamak type reactors can ever succeed in providing a viable, cost efficient, commercial fusion reactor. Regarding these efforts, he says this ...
Fusion research long emphasized deuterium–tritium (DT) fuel, as this fuel achieved significant fusion reaction rates at lower ion temperatures (Ti) than any other fuel. However, the DT reaction releases most of its energy in the form of a 14 MeV neutron. Since the early days of fusion energy work, researchers have been aware that this situation generates barriers to rapid deployment of any DT-based fusion generators and, conversely, puts a floor on the capital cost of such generators.

This is because there is no known way to convert neutron kinetic energy into electricity except by a conventional thermal generation system, as has been used in electric systems for well over a century. In existing fossil fuel generation plants, the energy conversion system, such as a steam turbine and generator, constitutes 80% or more of the capital cost. The conversion technology is by now extremely mature, and capital costs for these systems alone are in the area of $1–1.5/W of installed capacity.

These two considerations mean that it is practically impossible for any DT system to have capital costs less than existing fossil fuel plants. This, of course, does not mean that the delivered cost of electricity, which includes the fuel price, could not be less for DT fusion plants. However, it sets a floor on the minimum capital cost of a transition from fossil fuels to DT fusion generation.

Since about 50% of all energy use is for heating and would not necessarily require conversion to electricity, a complete conversion to DT fusion would require, at 2023 levels of energy consumption of 20 TW, a minimum of $10 trillion for energy conversion equipment alone. In itself, this is not a prohibitive amount over a 15-year transition period, as compared with fossil fuel costs in the area of $75 trillion over the same period at present prices.
In other words, he predicting there will be NO cheap electricity by this route ... as has been promised over and over during development of tokamak fusion reactors. In fact, Atomic Energy Commission Chairman Lewis Straus, back in 1954, said that fusion would provide power “too cheap to meter”. And they are still promising “limitless” energy from it … effectively the same thing. Which means they are still LYING. Here are some examples …

https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/0 ... rbon-free/
Last September, researchers at Commonwealth Fusion Systems slowly charged a 10-ton D-shaped magnet, pushing up the field strength until it surpassed 20 tesla—a record for a magnet of its kind. The company’s founders say the feat addressed the major engineering challenge required to develop a compact, inexpensive fusion reactor.

Fusion power has been a dream of physicists for decades. At temperatures well above 100 million degrees, as in the sun, atomic nuclei mash together, releasing a massive amount of energy in the process. If researchers can bring about these reactions in a controlled and sustained way here on Earth, it could provide a crucial source of cheap, always-on, carbon-free electricity, using nearly limitless fuel sources. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/18/busi ... nergy.html
David Harding, the founder of two investment management firms who has holdings worth an estimated £27 million, is one of Tokamak Energy’s key backers. He said that he had long been attracted to the idea of “cheap unlimited energy through scientific wizardry” but that now the “whole impetus of global warming makes it seem even more of a no-brainer.”
If Lerner is right, these folks are lying to us and potential investors.

Now regarding the alternatives, Lerner notes that
the approaches that combine hydrogen–boron (pB11) fuel with high-density plasma have an easier, less resource-intensive path. At present, only a few private companies have joined the government projects in actually publishing fusion yield results. However, so far these results reflect the basic advantages of high-plasma-density approaches.
He goes on to note that a
pB11-fueled generator would produce energy almost entirely in the form of either charged particle kinetic energy or x-rays. In both cases, several direct conversion schemes have been proposed or developed for other applications. These include photoelectric conversion for x-rays and both electrostatic and electromagnetic deceleration for charged particle beams. In the case of many of these technologies, no secure cost estimates can be obtained. However, an idea of the cost advantage over thermal conversion can be obtained by looking at one-of-a-kind or low-unit costs of direct energy conversion technologies such as gyrotrons, which convert electron beam energy into microwaves. One-of-a-kind or small numbers, <20, of 1 MW gyrotrons typically have prices of around $1/W. With reasonable scaling for mass production in thousands or millions of units that would be needed for a full transition to fusion, cost reductions to the area of $0.1/W are to be expected, reducing the minimum energy conversion costs for such a transition to the region of $1 trillion.

Other inherent aspects of DT devices also will increase cost and slow rollout. Neutron damage to structures, not present with pB11, will shorten generator lifetime and produce radioactive materials that will need to be disposed of. The essential tritium-breeding blanket is an additional cost not needed in pB11 devices. Thus, exclusive of the actual design of the fusion generators, a transition to DT fusion energy will require considerably more resources than one to pB11 fusion, or equivalently will take longer for a given level of investment.
Obviously, there may be some clear economic advantages of pB11, but as he point out ...
little or no government funding has been provided for approaches using this fuel.
Why do you think that is? I think it’s about CONTROL.

With just a few big reactors, the governments can easily control us.

But in a power grid with millions of units, that control will be much more difficult.

Re: The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

by BeAChooser » Fri Apr 05, 2024 3:36 am

In 2020 the Korea Superconducting Tokamak Advanced Research (KSTAR) reactor was able to maintain a 100 million degree Celsius plasma for 20 seconds! Two years later, in September 2022, they maintained 100 million degree Celsius plasma for 30 seconds! The media just announced (https://www.popularmechanics.com/scienc ... or-plasma/) that they “shattered” (!) that record, maintaining the plasma at 100 million degrees Celsius for 48 seconds! From all at the hoopla in the media, you’d think they achieved something spectacular ... that cheap, fusion power is now just around the corner. But their goal is to contain the 100 million degree plasma for 300 seconds by 2026. If it took them a year and a half to raise the containment time from 20 to 30 seconds. and another year and a half to increase it from 30 to 48 seconds, I’d say they’ve got their work cut out for them if they’re going to meet their 2026 goal. ;)

Re: The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

by allynh » Sat Mar 30, 2024 9:14 pm

I watched the documentary the other day and it is solid. I need to watch it again. As I mentioned to somebody else on another blog:

- All that you can do is post the links when you can.

I've been posting about this great documentary that came out in 2007 that puts the lie to Global Warming, and explains the history.

The Great Global Warming Swindle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY-gRFSaP7o

Only a few people actually watch the documentary when I mention it. HA!

That gives me two great documentaries to post when needed.

Thanks...

Climate The Movie

by BeAChooser » Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:10 pm

Hi.

In this thread I've demonstrated how the climate change (global warming) boogieman has and is still being used to justify all sorts of expensive boondoggles. It's already cost the world hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars because of the effort to eliminate use of fossil fuels, push much more expensive and less reliable wind and solar technologies, and implement many other parts of the green agenda.

One of the worst boondoggles now underway is the ultra-expensive urgency regarding development of fusion, as I've outlined above. Governments have spent many tens of billions of dollars on it already, and are planning to spend TRILLIONS of YOUR dollars in the next few decades ... because they say increasing CO2 threatens to doom humanity in the next century. In fact, they say it may already be too late!

Not only that, governments have plans to take away most your freedoms (including free speech) and impose draconian controls over every aspect of your lives ... all because of the *dire* threat THEY CLAIM from CO2. If you don't believe me, then go read about the Cities 40 agenda ... https://www.c40.org ... and what they are going to ALLOW YOU to do when it comes to ownership of autos, purchases of clothing, what you eat, and use of air travel.

ALL of the above is predicated on the claim that a small rise in man made CO2 will soon doom us.

Now, as you know, I'm a critic of that claim. In fact, I've questioned the validity of AGWalarmism longer than some of you have probably been alive. So if any of you on this forum still believe that claim is true ... believe that AGWalarmism is justified ... then I challenge you to watch the just released movie ... "Climate The Movie". Here's a free link ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOAUsvVhgsU .

Then we can talk.

Because this is symptomatic of the Death Of Government Funded Science.

And it pretty much doesn't matter what topic we're talking about.

Climate Change.

Virology.

Fusion.

Astrophysics.

They have ALL been coopted because of other agendas that have nothing at all to do with science, nature, or reality.

‘Follow the Science’ Leads to Ruin

by BeAChooser » Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:20 am

https://www.wsj.com/articles/follow-the ... _lead_pos5
‘Follow the Science’ Leads to Ruin
How true and it doesn’t matter whether we are talking about climatology, virology, the social sciences, particle physics, fusion, or cosmology. The value of the work produced in every one of those research areas (and probably others) is being contaminated by the “follow the science” claims used against opponents of mainstream views which are highly flawed. And that's happening because the policies that mainstream politicians want to see enacted (for reasons that have nothing to do with science) are using the "follow the science" doctrine to control all adversaries to those policies. This is causing a massive waste of resources (beyond imagining ... measured in TRILLIONS of dollars) and lost opportunities (measured in things that humanity could have achieved by now) ... in every policy area across the board. Civilization is already paying a huge price for this (it's coming apart as we watch), and I hate to be the one bearing bad news, folks, but this may soon end civilization entirely. We all need to wake up to this, before it's too late. Get your heads out of the ground and start fighting against this, rather than going along with what's happening.

Re: The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

by BeAChooser » Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:09 am

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00623-6
Two giant US telescopes threatened by funding cap
GOOD.
US astronomers might have only one huge ground-based telescope in their future, rather than the two that many had hoped for.
Oh, the tragedy.
They have been planning for years to build the Giant Magellan Telescope on a mountaintop in Chile, and the Thirty Meter Telescope on the Hawaiian mountain Maunakea. … snip … Both projects are backed by international groups of funders, but neither has the estimated US$3 billion needed to fully fund its telescope.
Wow! I'd heard they were $2 billion dollar telescopes. This is the first time I've seen them called $3 billion dollar telescopes!
Many astronomers had hoped that the US National Science Foundation (NSF) would contribute money to cover the funding shortfall. But last week the National Science Board, which oversees the NSF, recommended that the agency cap its giant-telescope contributions at $1.6 billion. The board also signalled that it was reluctant for the NSF to spend even that much, citing the need to build other facilities “across a wide range of science and engineering fields”.
Yes, indeed, there is lots of bogus science competing for money these days.
Falling behind

Looming over both telescope projects is the fact that the European Southern Observatory is ahead of them, quickly building the 39-metre-wide Extremely Large Telescope in Chile.
Oh no! You mean someone else may get the glory of finding something totally useless to humanity at large first? By the way, the 39-meter Extremely Large Telescope is costing Europe about $1.6 billion.
To some US researchers, the idea of losing access to one of the two planned telescopes could represent a major blow to US leadership in astronomy. “Great vision should drive great budgets, not vice versa,” says John O’Meara, chief scientist at the W. M. Keck Observatory in Kamuela, Hawaii.
I’m thinking of another saying … “all smoke and no mirrors”. ;)

Re: The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

by davesmith_au » Sun Feb 25, 2024 12:02 pm

BeAChooser wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 12:04 am
[...]

To which I respond ... WHY?

And particularly, WHY NOW?


What purpose would knowing those things serve us right now?

Doesn't the human race face many other far more immediate and civilization threatening problems?

How will this project help solve any of those problems … or might it potential just exacerbate them?

Surely there is something better we could do with the tens of billions of dollars they want to take from us to pay for this toy?
My thoughts exactly!

Re: The ridiculousness waste of resources continues …

by BeAChooser » Sun Feb 25, 2024 12:04 am

Where have we heard this one before?

https://news.yahoo.com/scientists-desig ... 01461.html
Scientists are designing a supercollider so powerful it could push the boundaries of modern physics
Of course, the article is talking about the Future Circular Collider (FCC) mentioned above. And the justification given for the FCC?
"With this new machine, we will reproduce 11 years of physics data taken on the old machine in about 2 minutes," said CERN accelerator physicist Michael Benedikt, leader of the FCC feasibility study.
So ... reinventing the wheel? And?
They won't just reproduce data. With FCC, physicists hope to tackle some of the most mind-boggling questions in their field.
And they are?
What happened in the first instant after the Big Bang? What is the true nature of dark matter? Where did all the antimatter go?

"There are various important questions that we have no clue how to answer," said Christophe Grojean, a theoretical particle physicist at DESY also working on the FCC. "We need to find an explanation."
To which I respond ... WHY?

And particularly, WHY NOW?


What purpose would knowing those things serve us right now?

Doesn't the human race face many other far more immediate and civilization threatening problems?

How will this project help solve any of those problems … or might it potential just exacerbate them?

Surely there is something better we could do with the tens of billions of dollars they want to take from us to pay for this toy?

Another Expensive DM project proposal …

by BeAChooser » Wed Feb 07, 2024 7:10 pm

https://www.space.com/dark-matter-gentl ... -detect-it
Scientists may soon be able to detect the most mysterious entity in the universe using a fleet of next-generation satellites, a new theoretical study suggests.

… snip …

To address this problem, Hyungjin Kim a theoretical physicist at the German Electron Synchrotron (DESY) accelerator center, proposed searching for dark matter particles using gravitational wave detectors — instruments designed to measure subtle ripples in the fabric of space-time that were first predicted by Albert Einstein.

… snip ..

To see if modern gravitational wave detectors could theoretically detect the influence of ultralight dark matter, Kim calculated how dark matter particles of varying sizes might perturb space-time. Kim had to explore a wide range of masses — from about 16 to 28 orders of magnitude smaller than the mass of an electron.

His theoretical analysis showed that for all these masses, existing detectors such as the  Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO), which helped prove the existence of gravitational waves in 2015, would not be able to detect dark matter fluctuations because their sensitivity is too low.

… snip …

"What I found is that the dark matter fluctuations bombardment could leave a distinctive signal in gravitational wave detectors, and potentially future space-borne detectors might be able to test the hypothesis of ultralight dark matter," Kim said. "My proposal utilizes future space-borne gravitational wave detectors, such as Laser Interferometer Space Antenna (LISA)."
LISA, of course, doesn’t yet exist. It has a projected cost of $1 billion with a planned launch date in 2035. By then it will probably end up costing a lot more, if it's not delayed. And NASA also has a $2 billion dollar ground based gravity detector planned to replace the current one (which, of course, they won't shut down either! Like I said, our government spares no expense to satisfy the priests of astrophysics! Even when they accomplish what will likely be next to NOTHING. Just saying ...

Re: Neutrino Detectors

by BeAChooser » Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:36 am

Related to the above …

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00315-1
Astronomers from around the world met last week to review the latest crop of research proposals for the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST). They sifted through 1,931 submissions — the most ever received for any telescope in history — and ranked them. By the time the reviewers begin releasing their decisions in late February, only one in every nine proposals will have been allotted time to collect data with JWST.
Doesn’t that tell us there are way too many astrophysicists living on the taxpayers’ money?

And for all that expenditure what REAL benefits has that money brought?

I keep asking this question and all I hear is silence.

Will ANY of their research have a real impact on the lives of anyone alive today, other than astrophysicists and their families?

I rather doubt it.

Are astrophysicists the priests of our civilization to whom we must bow and tithe?

Neutrino Detectors

by BeAChooser » Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:17 am

As noted here … https://gizmodo.com/dune-cavern-neutrin ... 1851225330 … the US is building something called the Deep Underground Neutrino Experiment (DUNE) to study (obviously) neutrinos. It’s a huge project. The entire complex covers an area of eight soccer fields and it’s nearly a mile deep. They had to dig out nearly 800,000 tons of rock to create the caverns in which the equipment will be placed. The detectors that are going into each cavern contain 17000 TONS of liquid argon and are the size of seven story buildings.

According to https://www.science.org/content/article ... experiment , DUNE is expected to cost about $3 BILLION (twice the original estimate) by the time it’s (hopefully) in operation in 2029 (it’s been delayed years already). And it’s now considerably slimmed down from what was promised at half the cost. The price now only includes the first phase of the two that were planned and only two of the four planned argon modules. Plus the power of the proton beam will be reduced and the detector will be simpler. So after completing the first phase, probably without discovery anything earth shattering, the DOE is likely going to want to improve it … at a cost of more hundreds of millions of dollars.

And that’s the story of only one neutrino detector. The US also has a neutrino detector in Ash River, Minnesota called NovA (it cost about $267 million) and a detector in Antartica called IceCube ($300 million). There are plans to improve IceCube (to IceCube2) at a cost of another $350 million). And America isn’t the only one building big neutrino detectors.

DUNE is competing with a deep underground experiment under construction in Japan called Hyper-K. Its original estimated construction cost was $600 million, but now it’s at least $800 million. And Hyper-K may beat DUNE to the punch since Hyper-K is expected to start taking data in 2027 or 2028.

There’s also the Jiangmen Underground Neutrino Observatory (JUNO) experiment now under construction in China at a projected cost of over $300 million (2014 dollars, so probably twice that today). It too may start taking data before DUNE.

Plus, the Chinese are building a “next generation” underwater neutrino detector called TRIDENT in the South China Sea. I couldn’t find the cost of that project but the detectors will be high tech, deep in the water (11,500 feet) and cover an area of almost 8 square miles (with a detector volume of 1.8 cubic miles). So it’s probably more expensive than IceCube and IceCube2 combined. In fact, it’s called a telescope.

The Russians also have a large ongoing neutrino detection effort. In the Caucasus mountains there’s the Baksan Neutrino Observatory which has been operating for nearly 60 years with tunnels and labs under 12000 feet of rock. They’re also planning a new major neutrino detector called the Baksan Large Underground Scintillation Telescope (BLUST). I couldn’t find the cost of this facility or BLUST but it’s easily in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

In addition, the Russians also have a TRIDENT like operation underneath lake Baikal. The first detector was completed in 1998, upgraded in 2005 and construction started in 2015 to build the Baikal Gigaton Volume Detector (Baikal-GVD). The first phase of the new project only has a cost of about $34 million ... but that's because it’s tiny compared to the other experiments like it and only 2500-4300 feet deep in the water.

Oh and let’s’ not forget the OPERA detector at the underground Gran Sasso National Laboratory in Italy (construction cost $160 million) and the 2100 meter deep Sudbury Neutrino Observatory in Ontario, Canada (at a cost of only $74 million because about $250 million dollars worth of heavy water was donated free of charge … but obviously someone paid for that too!).

All of the above only covers construction costs and each facility cost millions of dollars a year to run. Plus more detectors are planned. Look up P-ONE (equivalent to China’s TRIDENT, but off the coast of Canada). As you can see, there is some big bucks being spent in pursuit of neutrinos.

But I have to ask ... why? What use are neutrinos? Sure, there may be some medical uses and maybe detectors are good for locating nuclear explosions but what can justify DUNE’s excavation of three large caverns nearly a mile underground in South Dakota to study them (never mind all the other efforts)?

Sure, they say the experiments may yield clues about dark matter, but then they been saying that about experiment after experiment after experiment for 40 years and know little more than they did 40 years ago.

They also say it could tell us how black holes are born, but why exactly do we need to know that right now? Is that knowledge going to end the war in the Ukraine, stop illegal immigration, bring peace to the Middle East, make sure or elections are honest … or just put food on our tables? I don’t think so.

It seems to me that physicists these days have cart blanche to do anything they want at any cost without regard for how it will benefit the people who are paying for all their salaries, all their expensive toys, and study after study after study ... ad infinitum.

Now here is how Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory sums up the benefit of neutrinos …

https://neutrinos.fnal.gov/faq/what-are ... -research/
We’re not sure where the technology—the sensitive detectors, powerful particle accelerators, data processors, and other things that make experiments run—will eventually be useful. People are already dreaming up interesting applications for neutrinos and neutrino research. Because neutrinos are so small, wily, and hard to detect, there are many practical hurdles between the current state and implementation. Perhaps the closest to reality is using neutrino detectors to monitor nuclear proliferation for national security. It could also potentially be used to assess Earth’s crust for mineral deposits or provide a new kind of communication. We’re still very much at the beginning of our neutrino journey; what we do with this technology and information remains for the physicists of the future.
BUT HOW LONG IN THE FUTURE? Will anyone alive today (including our grand children) see a benefit from all this neutrino, Higgs Boson, dark matter, dark energy, etc, etc, etc research? If the answer is just *maybe*, then perhaps society has its priorities wrong right now. Perhaps it’s time to reign in the physicists before they help bankrupt us. Perhaps those minds would be better employed solving some of the REAL problems now facing us ... before they destroy us? Just saying ...

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