by Lloyd » Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:59 pm
429536
CARDONA'S YOUNGER DRYAS DATING NAIVETE'
I posted a paper, CONFUSING CREATION & DOOMSDAY, at
https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... d-doomsday on March 11. I was referring to Dwardu Cardona's books in which IMO he relied too much on mainstream dating methods to conclude that Saturn went nova at the time of the Younger Dryas, which the mainstream dates at over 11,000 years ago and lasting over 1,000 years. So Cardona figured that, though the Saturn nova produced a serious heat wave, it also produced a lot of cosmic dust, which caused the extension of the Ice Age. But Michael Oard challenged the mainstream dating and concluded that the entire Ice Age only lasted 700 years. I don't know if he accepts the reality of the Younger Dryas event, but he commented on the dating based on a Greenland ice core, stating that the final cold snap lasted only some years or decades, not centuries.
CHRONOLOGY CHALLENGE Nick mentioned his thinking is that a very short chronology is likely correct, like that of Heinsohn, Rose, Ginenthal, maybe Velikovsky & others, which is maybe a thousand years shorter than mainstream. So I offered to discuss that using progressive scientific method at
viewtopic.php?t=1136#p10048. I'm copying most of that post here.
You said you favor short chronologies, whereas Saturnists favor less shortened chronologies. I favor David Rohl's, which is about 250 years shorter than mainstream chronology. I think all agree that the Dark Ages of Greece and other places are wrong and need to be removed.
LK CHRONOLOGY
My model is based:
- 1st on the oldest tree being about 4,700 years old, which must have grown after the Great Flood;
- 2nd on several other features, like rivers etc being 5,000 or so years old, as per Jonathan Gray's writing, also which must have formed after the Great Flood;
- 3rd on the Septuagint Bible stating that the Great Flood occurred c. 5,300 years ago, which event deposited nearly all sedimentary rock strata;
- 4th on Michael Oard's finding that the Ice Age lasted only c. 700 years after the Flood and that the Ice Age occurred on top of the sedimentary strata deposited by the Flood;
- 5th on the Younger Dryas impacts having occurred near the end of the Ice Age, which destroyed most megafauna;
- 6th on iridium-microspherule layers being possibly caused by Saturn novas during the Great Flood and the Younger Dryas event;
- 7th on the Saturn Golden Age having started after the last nova, i.e. after the Younger Dryas;
- 8th on Moe Mandelkehr's finding of a catastrophe 4,300 years ago, which ended the Golden Age and which I suspect was due to the Indian Ocean Burckle Crater impact event;
- 9th on pyramids and ziggurats etc having been likely built after the Golden Age in commemoration of the Saturn Configuration;
- 10th on the Dead Sea event having been dated by David Rohl to 1830 BC, which I suspect was the end of the Jupiter Age, which started after the Golden Age;
- 11th on the Exodus having been dated by David Rohl to c. 1446 BC, which involved a large comet, but probably not Venus
- 12fth on David Rohl's dating of subsequent events.
{SHORT GOLDEN AGE & JUPITER AGE}
By this model, the Golden Age only lasted 300 years from 2,600 to 2,300 BC and the Jupiter Age 470 years from 2,300 to 1,830 BC and it's possible that Venus and Mars, as well as Jupiter, were still in close proximity to Earth in 1830 BC. Cardona had an article in Kronos, I think, called Jupiter, God of Abraham, which gave evidence that the Sodom and Gomorrah disaster by the Dead Sea was caused by brimstone that came from Io, a large moon of Jupiter. I think Cardona later abandoned that idea, but I still find it plausible. It may be that Jupiter was on an elliptical orbit then which brought it close to Earth on occasion, or it may have still been in the remains of the Saturn Train of planets.
{EXODUS COMET}
I suspect that Venus was not the comet of the Exodus, because Cardona said he found no evidence that anyone who talked about the comet of the Exodus ever called it Venus. Even in Worlds in Collision it seems no one was sited as saying the comet was Venus. And surely by that late date everyone at that time was well familiar with Venus as a planet, no longer as a comet. It's not settled science, of course, though. I guess the myths of the Americas provide clues that Venus could have been seen as a comet as late as the time of the Exodus, but it's odd that no one in the eastern hemisphere seems to have called the Exodus comet Venus. So it seems unlikely that the Exodus comet was Venus and it's more unlikely that Mars encountered the Earth c. 700 BC. I can quote from some Aeon articles etc about this later, if needed.
I wrote a paper, THE EXODUS COMET, on March 14 at
https://acts15church.substack.com/p/the-exodus-comet . I added it to my online book at
https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/ancient- ... ry-history , which is one of ten books I have on this Substack:
https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/archive .
SATURN & JUPITER AGES
It was only about 2 weeks ago that I found that Cardona figured that the Golden Age started a millennium after the last Saturn Nova, which he dated to 10,000 & 11,000 years ago, respectively. That helped me conclude, tentatively of course, that the Golden Age started after my dating of the Younger Dryas and didn't last long, only till the next cataclysm (Doomsday, 2,300 BC) and that the Jupiter Age followed that cataclysm and lasted till the Dead Sea cataclysm. Cardona figured that the iridium layer came from a Saturn Nova. Both the Great Flood and the Younger Dryas event have iridium layers. So there could have been two recent Saturn Novas, 700 years apart, one causing or contributing to the Great Flood and the second doing so to the Younger Dryas event. Mythologically, the evidence is very strong that the Saturn Configuration was close to Earth several millennia ago, but the physical evidence on Earth isn't strong so far. If it can be proved that the iridium/microspherule layer could only have been produced by a nova, that would pretty much clinch the theory, IMO.
SATURN OVER THE ARCTIC, MAYBE NOT
Cardona had a lot of evidence for the Saturnist idea that Saturn, Venus & Mars were over the north pole and provided the Arctic with heat and light for many millennia, which caused life to proliferate there. He also found myths that said there was a huge vortex in the north which killed living things, smashing them together. He said that could explain the deep Arctic muck composed of animal and plant parts mixed with soil and ice etc.
I asked Bing A.I. about Arctic muck and got this response.
{FORMATION} Formation of Arctic Muck:
Arctic muck is a type of Histosol, characterized by its high organic content.
It forms in boreal, arctic, and subarctic regions where cold conditions slow down decomposition processes.
The accumulation of organic material, including plant remains, contributes to the muck’s composition.
{PRESERVATION} Frozen Preservation:
The permafrost in these regions preserves organic matter by keeping it frozen.
When animals die or plant material falls into the muck, it remains relatively intact due to the cold environment.
{CATACLYSMS} Cataclysmic Events:
Some researchers propose that a cataclysmic event near the end of the last Ice Age caused the rapid burial of animals and vegetation.
This event could have been a massive flood, a volcanic eruption, or another natural catastrophe.
The sudden burial would explain why so many animal bones and wood are found in close proximity within the muck1.
{DISCOVERY} Gold Mining Discoveries:
In the late 1930s and early 1940s, gold mining operations in Alaska uncovered vast amounts of frozen muck containing:
Extinct mammal bones (such as mammoths, mastodons, super-bison, and horses).
Brush, stumps, moss, and freshwater mollusks.
The presence of these materials suggests that the muck is late Pleistocene or early post-glacial in age.
Man-made artifacts were also found in the muck, indicating that humans coexisted with extinct mammals in Alaska1.
{FRACTURING} Splintering Mechanisms:
The splintering of animal bones and wood could result from:
Freezing and thawing cycles: Repeated freezing and thawing cause mechanical stress, leading to fractures.
Pressure from ice: As ice forms and expands, it can exert pressure on organic material, causing it to splinter.
Turbulent water flow: Cataclysmic events may have involved powerful water currents that broke down organic matter.
Abrasion: Movement of ice, water, and debris could have abraded bones and wood, creating splinters.
{SUMMARY} In summary, the combination of frozen preservation, cataclysmic events, and natural processes likely contributed to the presence of splintered animal bones and wood within arctic muck.
{REFERENCES}
1
https://grahamhancock.com/hancockg18/
2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muskox
3
https://woodcritique.com/repairs/how-to ... wood-deck/
4
https://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/commun ... k-arctics/
5
https://www.isric.org/sites/default/fil ... stosol.pdf
6
https://lakewatch.ifas.ufl.edu/media/la ... 12Muck.pdf
TORNADO/VORTEX
I think Cardona considered the Saturnian polar column to be a Vortex. I don't know if there's a way to prove that. The Arctic muck could have been produced by a tornadic vortex, but also by hurrican winds, or deep, turbulent floods.
I feel like I have a good handle on Chronology from the Great Flood of about 5,300 years to the present, but what I'm trying to figure out the most is the times of both the Golden Age and the Jupiter Age. I've only settled on the tentative dates above in the last few weeks. I'm looking for more evidence to either confirm them or readjust them.
WHY SATURN MAYBE WAS NOT OVER THE ARCTIC
I think Cardona assumed that the Pangaea supercontinent breakup occurred millions of years ago. He theorized that the sea floor magnetic stripes showed how far the continents moved apart during prior Saturn nova cataclysms, when they caused the Earth to brake suddenly in its rotation. So he thought the movement was fast but took many such events to get the continents to their present positions. But Mike Fischer at NewGeology.us showed that one large asteroid impact likely broke it up all at once and it took just over a day for the continents to reach their present locations. The magnetic stripes just show that the magnetic field was wobbling during the breakup. The breakup likely occurred during the Great Flood after most of the sedimentary rock strata were deposited. It's possible that Pangaea was on only one side of the Earth because the Saturn configuration was directly above its center. So that's where the north pole would have been. If so, then the poles must have moved during the Great Flood cataclysm or later. Cardona does have some evidence that Saturn raised up the land at the present north pole and that a magma vortex formed in the Earth's mantle below the pole. That could have formed during or after the Great Flood. Well, there's no end to the mysteries that need to be solved. Is there.
429536
[color=#FF0000]CARDONA'S YOUNGER DRYAS DATING NAIVETE'[/color]
I posted a paper, CONFUSING CREATION & DOOMSDAY, at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substack.com/p/confusing-creation-and-doomsday on March 11. I was referring to Dwardu Cardona's books in which IMO he relied too much on mainstream dating methods to conclude that Saturn went nova at the time of the Younger Dryas, which the mainstream dates at over 11,000 years ago and lasting over 1,000 years. So Cardona figured that, though the Saturn nova produced a serious heat wave, it also produced a lot of cosmic dust, which caused the extension of the Ice Age. But Michael Oard challenged the mainstream dating and concluded that the entire Ice Age only lasted 700 years. I don't know if he accepts the reality of the Younger Dryas event, but he commented on the dating based on a Greenland ice core, stating that the final cold snap lasted only some years or decades, not centuries.
[color=#0000FF]CHRONOLOGY CHALLENGE[/color] Nick mentioned his thinking is that a very short chronology is likely correct, like that of Heinsohn, Rose, Ginenthal, maybe Velikovsky & others, which is maybe a thousand years shorter than mainstream. So I offered to discuss that using progressive scientific method at https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=1136#p10048. I'm copying most of that post here.
You said you favor short chronologies, whereas Saturnists favor less shortened chronologies. I favor David Rohl's, which is about 250 years shorter than mainstream chronology. I think all agree that the Dark Ages of Greece and other places are wrong and need to be removed.
[color=#FF0000]LK CHRONOLOGY[/color]
[quote]My model is based:
- 1st on the oldest tree being about 4,700 years old, which must have grown after the Great Flood;
- 2nd on several other features, like rivers etc being 5,000 or so years old, as per Jonathan Gray's writing, also which must have formed after the Great Flood;
- 3rd on the Septuagint Bible stating that the Great Flood occurred c. 5,300 years ago, which event deposited nearly all sedimentary rock strata;
- 4th on Michael Oard's finding that the Ice Age lasted only c. 700 years after the Flood and that the Ice Age occurred on top of the sedimentary strata deposited by the Flood;
- 5th on the Younger Dryas impacts having occurred near the end of the Ice Age, which destroyed most megafauna;
- 6th on iridium-microspherule layers being possibly caused by Saturn novas during the Great Flood and the Younger Dryas event;
- 7th on the Saturn Golden Age having started after the last nova, i.e. after the Younger Dryas;
- 8th on Moe Mandelkehr's finding of a catastrophe 4,300 years ago, which ended the Golden Age and which I suspect was due to the Indian Ocean Burckle Crater impact event;
- 9th on pyramids and ziggurats etc having been likely built after the Golden Age in commemoration of the Saturn Configuration;
- 10th on the Dead Sea event having been dated by David Rohl to 1830 BC, which I suspect was the end of the Jupiter Age, which started after the Golden Age;
- 11th on the Exodus having been dated by David Rohl to c. 1446 BC, which involved a large comet, but probably not Venus
- 12fth on David Rohl's dating of subsequent events.
[color=#0000FF]{SHORT GOLDEN AGE & JUPITER AGE}[/color]
By this model, the Golden Age only lasted 300 years from 2,600 to 2,300 BC and the Jupiter Age 470 years from 2,300 to 1,830 BC and it's possible that Venus and Mars, as well as Jupiter, were still in close proximity to Earth in 1830 BC. Cardona had an article in Kronos, I think, called Jupiter, God of Abraham, which gave evidence that the Sodom and Gomorrah disaster by the Dead Sea was caused by brimstone that came from Io, a large moon of Jupiter. I think Cardona later abandoned that idea, but I still find it plausible. It may be that Jupiter was on an elliptical orbit then which brought it close to Earth on occasion, or it may have still been in the remains of the Saturn Train of planets.
[color=#0000FF]{EXODUS COMET}[/color]
I suspect that Venus was not the comet of the Exodus, because Cardona said he found no evidence that anyone who talked about the comet of the Exodus ever called it Venus. Even in Worlds in Collision it seems no one was sited as saying the comet was Venus. And surely by that late date everyone at that time was well familiar with Venus as a planet, no longer as a comet. It's not settled science, of course, though. I guess the myths of the Americas provide clues that Venus could have been seen as a comet as late as the time of the Exodus, but it's odd that no one in the eastern hemisphere seems to have called the Exodus comet Venus. So it seems unlikely that the Exodus comet was Venus and it's more unlikely that Mars encountered the Earth c. 700 BC. I can quote from some Aeon articles etc about this later, if needed.[/quote]
I wrote a paper, THE EXODUS COMET, on March 14 at https://acts15church.substack.com/p/the-exodus-comet . I added it to my online book at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/ancient-myths-are-planetary-history , which is one of ten books I have on this Substack: https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/archive .
[color=#0000FF]SATURN & JUPITER AGES[/color]
It was only about 2 weeks ago that I found that Cardona figured that the Golden Age started a millennium after the last Saturn Nova, which he dated to 10,000 & 11,000 years ago, respectively. That helped me conclude, tentatively of course, that the Golden Age started after my dating of the Younger Dryas and didn't last long, only till the next cataclysm (Doomsday, 2,300 BC) and that the Jupiter Age followed that cataclysm and lasted till the Dead Sea cataclysm. Cardona figured that the iridium layer came from a Saturn Nova. Both the Great Flood and the Younger Dryas event have iridium layers. So there could have been two recent Saturn Novas, 700 years apart, one causing or contributing to the Great Flood and the second doing so to the Younger Dryas event. Mythologically, the evidence is very strong that the Saturn Configuration was close to Earth several millennia ago, but the physical evidence on Earth isn't strong so far. If it can be proved that the iridium/microspherule layer could only have been produced by a nova, that would pretty much clinch the theory, IMO.
[color=#FF0000]SATURN OVER THE ARCTIC, MAYBE NOT[/color]
Cardona had a lot of evidence for the Saturnist idea that Saturn, Venus & Mars were over the north pole and provided the Arctic with heat and light for many millennia, which caused life to proliferate there. He also found myths that said there was a huge vortex in the north which killed living things, smashing them together. He said that could explain the deep Arctic muck composed of animal and plant parts mixed with soil and ice etc.
I asked Bing A.I. about Arctic muck and got this response.
[color=#0000FF]{FORMATION}[/color] Formation of Arctic Muck:
Arctic muck is a type of Histosol, characterized by its high organic content.
It forms in boreal, arctic, and subarctic regions where cold conditions slow down decomposition processes.
The accumulation of organic material, including plant remains, contributes to the muck’s composition.
[color=#0000FF]{PRESERVATION}[/color] Frozen Preservation:
The permafrost in these regions preserves organic matter by keeping it frozen.
When animals die or plant material falls into the muck, it remains relatively intact due to the cold environment.
[color=#0000FF]{CATACLYSMS}[/color] Cataclysmic Events:
Some researchers propose that a cataclysmic event near the end of the last Ice Age caused the rapid burial of animals and vegetation.
This event could have been a massive flood, a volcanic eruption, or another natural catastrophe.
The sudden burial would explain why so many animal bones and wood are found in close proximity within the muck1.
[color=#0000FF]{DISCOVERY}[/color] Gold Mining Discoveries:
In the late 1930s and early 1940s, gold mining operations in Alaska uncovered vast amounts of frozen muck containing:
Extinct mammal bones (such as mammoths, mastodons, super-bison, and horses).
Brush, stumps, moss, and freshwater mollusks.
The presence of these materials suggests that the muck is late Pleistocene or early post-glacial in age.
Man-made artifacts were also found in the muck, indicating that humans coexisted with extinct mammals in Alaska1.
[color=#0000FF]{FRACTURING}[/color] Splintering Mechanisms:
The splintering of animal bones and wood could result from:
Freezing and thawing cycles: Repeated freezing and thawing cause mechanical stress, leading to fractures.
Pressure from ice: As ice forms and expands, it can exert pressure on organic material, causing it to splinter.
Turbulent water flow: Cataclysmic events may have involved powerful water currents that broke down organic matter.
Abrasion: Movement of ice, water, and debris could have abraded bones and wood, creating splinters.
[color=#0000FF]{SUMMARY}[/color] In summary, the combination of frozen preservation, cataclysmic events, and natural processes likely contributed to the presence of splintered animal bones and wood within arctic muck. 🌿❄️🦴
[color=#0040FF]{REFERENCES}[/color]
1 https://grahamhancock.com/hancockg18/
2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muskox
3 https://woodcritique.com/repairs/how-to-repair-splintered-wood-deck/
4 https://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/community/forums/topic/baffin-titans-or-muck-arctics/
5 https://www.isric.org/sites/default/files/major_soils_of_the_world/set1/hs/histosol.pdf
6 https://lakewatch.ifas.ufl.edu/media/lakewatchifasufledu/extension/circulars/112Muck.pdf
[color=#0000FF]TORNADO/VORTEX[/color]
I think Cardona considered the Saturnian polar column to be a Vortex. I don't know if there's a way to prove that. The Arctic muck could have been produced by a tornadic vortex, but also by hurrican winds, or deep, turbulent floods.
I feel like I have a good handle on Chronology from the Great Flood of about 5,300 years to the present, but what I'm trying to figure out the most is the times of both the Golden Age and the Jupiter Age. I've only settled on the tentative dates above in the last few weeks. I'm looking for more evidence to either confirm them or readjust them.
[color=#0000FF]WHY SATURN MAYBE WAS NOT OVER THE ARCTIC[/color]
I think Cardona assumed that the Pangaea supercontinent breakup occurred millions of years ago. He theorized that the sea floor magnetic stripes showed how far the continents moved apart during prior Saturn nova cataclysms, when they caused the Earth to brake suddenly in its rotation. So he thought the movement was fast but took many such events to get the continents to their present positions. But Mike Fischer at NewGeology.us showed that one large asteroid impact likely broke it up all at once and it took just over a day for the continents to reach their present locations. The magnetic stripes just show that the magnetic field was wobbling during the breakup. The breakup likely occurred during the Great Flood after most of the sedimentary rock strata were deposited. It's possible that Pangaea was on only one side of the Earth because the Saturn configuration was directly above its center. So that's where the north pole would have been. If so, then the poles must have moved during the Great Flood cataclysm or later. Cardona does have some evidence that Saturn raised up the land at the present north pole and that a magma vortex formed in the Earth's mantle below the pole. That could have formed during or after the Great Flood. Well, there's no end to the mysteries that need to be solved. Is there.