Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth...

[mharratsc]

The reason why I put forth the slow-moving vs. fast-moving hypothesis (bare bones thesis?) is because not all meteors blow up or fracture into smithereens at altitude. Some really big suckers have hit the planet in fact.

That being so- how do you explain that within the EU perspective? What could possibly be different between meteors?

In my mind, it would the same as comparing different comets. Some comets break up, some explode into smithereens, some just get whittled down to little orbiting nubs... what could be different?

The way I understand it is- differing charges. Some of them go out and bleed off a lot of charge way out in the fringes, only to come zinging in really fast towards the Sun. Others, (asteroid comets) vary only ever so slightly, and briefly shine for a bit and then dim again.

Trying to apply the same 'physics' to meteors coming into the Earth's proximity, I proposed the speed/charge thing as a way of explaining how some meteors would vaporize in the atmosphere (without igniting the atmosphere) and how some can make a big splash when they hit.
Now if someone can explain a different mechanics that would explain both the the ones that hit and the ones that make big craters without impacting, I am all for hearing it- I want to be able to explain these events, even if only to myself!

Mike H.

[webolife]

From either viewpoint, the bigger the rock the more likely it survives the electrical/heat/disintegration process traveling through the atmosphere. If I throw a granade, and it explodes just before hitting its target, or just as it hits, will you be able to tell the difference afterwards? Also remember that "big" in terms of meteorites on average is not too far from "breadbox" size in either direction... the occasional alleged extinction-causing blasts are explainable from the standpoint of impact or electrical discharge, but still we're talking in "boxcar" units, not, for example, an asteroid the size of Texas... these objects must enter the atmosphere at high speed, but are we saying that from an EU standpoint speed is a secondary consideration?

[mharratsc]

To my mind, it seems that charge, velocity, size/volume, & composition are all playing a part, as well as ram pressure and friction heating on the atmosphere's part, to a certain degree.

Now here's something to consider- most of the expermiments mankind has done regarding objects entering the atmosphere are actually experiments regarding RE-entry of an object. We didn't zip out to the asteroid belt and fling something at the Earth to see if it would behave differently! These differences need to be taken into consideration.

Knowing as we do (at least here in these forums) that electrical charge plays a huge role in these dynamics, we can consider that any object with a very different charge than the Earth is going to be affected by long range electromagnetic attraction, and short-range electrostatic repulsion, right? The testing that we've done with orbital-to-atmospheric (re)entry have involved taking an object at Earth potential up into space, jockeying it around, and dropping it into freefall back into the atmosphere. The dynamics are going to be quite different on it's re-entry than something blasting through from the fringe of the solar system and it's much lower charge environment.

As to the speed issue, consider a slow-moving object approaching the Earth through the solar plasma. It's going to be equalizing it's charge relative to the solar plasma on the way in until it hits the Earth's magnetosphere and approaches the atmosphere. If it's velocity is not great, charge equalization may take the form of multiple currents through the low density plasma of the upper atmosphere (much like waving two jumper cables near each other in a humid environment, some small sparks might fly). However, a faster approach might see one enormous arc occur (like slamming those same jumper cables together and dropping the entire charge of the battery across them) causing all sorts of catastrophic damage to the object approaching the Earth, and creating a crater or two on the Earth itself, as well.

I concur that atmospheric heating, ram pressure, and et cetera will all play a factor to varying degrees, but that the intensity of those effects would be first determined by the charge differential and speed of equalization experienced.

Does that seem like a logical assessment?

Mike H.

[bfmasonsf]

Hi,

I'm new to this site - And am thrilled and amazed by the revelations...!
I have some questions about the Arizona "meter" crater and the Grand Canyon
being Electrical Discharge Machining examples on a planetary scale...?

Is that what created all of the strange sandstone (I think it's sandstone)
formations like the bee-hives in the Valley of Fire SP near Las Vegas and
the mixed red and gold colors of the rocks?

check out these pics:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&c ... =0&ndsp=21

Bryce Canyon, the Slot Canyons near Page, and maybe Sedona also fit into this question?

what I'm asking is what happens to the material that is milled out of the Grand Canyon?
does it then fall back to earth and become fused into these strange formations?
or does it end up on the charged body passing too close to the earth?

How far from the Grand Canyon would an EDM of that scale effect?

And are those red and gold colors electrical fused into the rock?
or sedementary like geologist claim?

Thanks for your site...
and any feedback.

bfmasonsf

[bfmasonsf]

Sorry another question and a comment I almost forgot:

Can wood be petrified electrically?
(explaining the petrified forest of Arizona)

and in relation to the Valley of Fire SP
there are VERY interesting petroglyphs on the rocks there:
zigzagy lines - concentric circles - the example below looks like lightning striking trees and people
(to me... what do you think?)

http://gustavus.edu/academics/library/petroglyphs.jpg

Are any of the Petroglyphs recorded at this site representative of the EDM that occurred there?

Thanks

bfmasonsf

[mharratsc]

Well firstly- welcome to the Land of Logic!

I'm gonna start by saying that lots of the 'weathering' effects seen on any of the planets probably have a root source of some kind of electrical events, but there's such a variety of ways that that stuff can occur.. the effects are myriad, really.
A good way to become familiar is to check out the TPOD archive, specifically the Subject listings. You can see all kinds of geological articles that touch on just about everything geologic on the planet!

As for the petroglyphs- I can't touch on the ones you referred to specifically, but I can certainly point you out to some YouTube videos if you haven't seen them:

[url2=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_jeHrJYIw]Symbols Of An Alien Sky[/url2]

Make sure you check out parts 2 through 5a and 5b as well.

Mike H.

[Lloyd]

* This thread is on the wrong board and will probably be moved to the Planetary Science board.

1. What happens to the rock material that is removed by EDM [electric discharge machining], such as what was carved out of the Grand Canyon etc?

* It can be deposited on the celestial body that causes the EDM, or it can be deposited locally on Earth like sedimentary rock, or in more distant locations on Earth, or some of it can end up in space or falling to earth as powder etc. Below is a list of all the TPODs that discuss features of the Southwest.
* Some suggest that buttes, mesas etc are fulgurites, raised up from the surrounding landscape by huge electrical forces. Arches are often similarly formed.

2. Is the rock sedimentary or electrically deposited?

* Most of the sedimentary rock on any planetoid is deposited electrically over short periods of time.

3. Can wood be petrified electrically?

* Yes, most of it was likely petrified electrically, during close encounters with another planetoid under catastrophic conditions. See the thread on Mummified Dinosaurs at http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... ?f=4&t=123 . It suggests that most fossils are also caused by the same catastrophic conditions. Intense electrical stress can almost certainly transmute elements, which apparently happens during fossilization and petrification.

4. Do the zigzagy lines, concentric circles etc in local petroglyphs represent lightning, or other electrical phenomena?

* Most of those lines and symbols probably do not symbolize normal lightning, but plasma phenomena during the Saturn Age, which included the tree-like plasma column over the north pole.
* TPODs about the Southwest
Meteor Crater in Arizona http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/arch ... crater.htm
Natural Arches http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/arch ... arches.htm
Southern Utah's Catastrophic Past http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/arch ... icpast.htm
The Grand Canyon: Part One http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/arch ... canyon.htm
The Grand Canyon: Part Two http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/arch ... anyon2.htm
Upheaval Dome http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/arch ... 24dome.htm
Suddenly [Colorado] http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/arch ... ddenly.htm
Rock Art [petroglyphs] http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/00subjectx.htm#Rock_Art

[bboyer]

Can wood be petrified electrically?
(explaining the petrified forest of Arizona)

bfmasonsf

Might want to browse through this thread:

http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... 23&start=0

[GaryN]

Am I to believe that a glacier carved out this valley? Looks like an electrical excavation to me, those dendritic ridges look familiar too. I haven't been able to find the actual color radar maps they are acquiring, but this could be very interesting from an EU perspective.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =120087654

[mharratsc]

Don't forget that there are also 'frozen dunes'- ice that is rippled in this vast enormous sheet that sends them into fits when they try and model how it could've been done by wind energy alone!

Likewise, petrified dunes also show up in Australia, and I think in one of the African drserts also.

Oh, did I forget to mention that they are also copiously found on Mars?


Mike H.

[GaryN]

The top end of the glacier is what struck me as looking like many of the similarly dimensioned features on mars.
I still like looking at the HIRISE images, some real eye-candy, but I have to chuckle at some of the accompanying text describing the origins of the features. I noticed lately, they don't say as much about the images, perhaps they knew they were starting to sound silly, given that many of the features scream electrical torture. My complaints on their descriptions have gone unanswered.

[jjohnson]

-and Gary, unless you can accidentally uncover a sympathetic ear, they will likely continue to go unanswered. Someone finds it "not in their best interest" to respond to "crank e-mails" like ours.

So far we have a limited (but very nice) set of original publications on the EU/PC interpretation, or universe-view, and those are for-sale books and e-books. We certainly don't get published in magazines or peer-reviewed astro journals. How many EU adherents are working (or retired, or student) scientists or engineers who would publish serious papers (more than, "We think it works like this and here are some pictures") if there were sites that would accept them? (I am not one of those categories, by the way; I don't know how to write a serious scientific paper, and I am not a mathematician, physicist or engineer). But there are some potential third party outlets which might accept such papers. What I think needs to be done in this regard is to find one, and use it, rather than being scattered over 3 or 4 - if there are that many. Apeiron Journal, viXra, and maybe one or two others, might be available for cosmological or EU-based papers. Or, we might have our own "Journal" on this web site, with submitted papers reviewed by ?Our Moderators? or possibly by volunteers with a fair-minded bent, so that there is a reasonable semblance of scientific thought and rigor in them. There might be similar subject differentiation to better serve interests, just as there are in this Forum.

Any brainstorming with me along these ideas, including, importantly, comment by moderators and senior folks, is not welcomed - it is necessary! I'd just like to see us as a group get the ball rolling on stepping it up a notch in terms of visibility and outreach, if you will. One preaches to the choir for only so long before running out of converts. Help me out, here.

jj

[GaryN]

In all fairness to the masses JJ, what difference does it make to the daily struggle whether it is impacts or plasma that sculpt the planetary surfaces? I have always been curious, but is that a blessing or a curse? If the truth were ever to lead us to the discovery of a free energy source, or anti-gravity, time travel, immortality, chances are humans would, in very short order, abuse the knowledge to our collective detriment. Perhaps someone knows our safe limits and is protecting us from ourselves by the intentional withholding, or at least obfuscation, of certain truths?
I suspect the EUers journey will be the slow ascent of a rock strewn path, in a strong headwind, but hey, I'm game! For now, all I feel I can accomplish is to plant the ideas of the EU whenever and wherever I think the ground may be fertile, and hope they sprout. But hey, if you win the lottery and need the services of a work-from-home ACAD or 3DMAX dude, let me know!

[jjohnson]

Gary,
Sorry to get so far outside the original subject of this dialog. I hear you; it's been pointed out (Don Scott, maybe?) that astronomy is more a hobby pursuit of knowledge than a utilitarian kind of engineering. That seems about right, but it's a part of science, and science is all about finding out stuff, pragmatic or not. The ivory tower theory is that all knowledge is useful. That depends on what is meant by knowledge, not to mention useful (hydrogen bombs are thought useful in a deterrent context by some, for example) but in science it means (according to me) the best explanation available at the time for some event or observable phenomenon in the natural (real) world. In all fairness to the masses, most people frankly, my dear, don't give a damn about much more than gossip, sex, sports, entertainment, food and maybe, drugs and cars. Maybe followed by jobs, money, shopping and health care. Cosmology and astronomy are really on the lists of a tiny minority of folks, maybe even after vacations and green living. Their lives in the near term aren't made one whit better or worse by it, I know, and it is irrelevant tfor them. Broadway musical productions are fairly irrelevant in my life, too. But here we are mulling things over because those of us here enjoy tackling some of the same things as a sort of shared interest. We don't go to symposia around the world with Wal Thornhill, because we don't know what he does, nor speak as well and as widely; and for me, I also don't have a current passport and a lot of discretionary change.

Yeah, strewn with rocks and cobbles sounds about right. I'm just interested in it because I got so put off after coming up empty-handed (empty-minded?) from reading in all those popular science books and magazines for years. EU and plasma physics, once I got into them a little, offered a plausible alternative to explore. The authors are reasonable, good guys, and are easy to communicate with. Thanks for the offer. If we get a little more organized maybe we can work together on something fun in all this.

Another potential publication site which might be discussed is is one which Miles Mathis uses: http://wbabin.net/purpose.htm
This is the URL for the Purpose of the site - just stop at net/ to get the home page.
JJ

[mharratsc]

Well, from a technical perspective, we DO have the IEEE for publishing of papers, never forget!

From an information pipeline to the general public that is out of the control of the Mainstream... I dunno.

Have any of the authors here ever tried to release anything via LiveLeak? The page has really gone through some odd changes from what it was originally designed to do when they first launched it, but there are still numbers of people (at least around the U.S.) that honestly peruse the site and make up their own minds regarding some of the various subjects that get posted there.

Just thinking out loud,

Mike H.