Redshifts and Microwaves

[Jarvamundo]

Ode to Arp
http://www.haltonarp.com/illustrations

These discoveries will change our galactic evolutionary models forever. Rock on pioneers, rock on. People are listening, even when bb-church orders us not to.

These observations are now being backed up by large data sets of quasars relatively misbehaving!
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... hould.html
Ofcourse, consensus gets out the magic wand to explain it. Yep folks, they are now suggesting mini-dark-matter black holes lenses popping into existence and magically aligning themselves in front of 900 'black-hole' powered quasars... of course this all happens in the 'early universe' when all that magical gas was gravity coalescing... "oh yeah... by the way, you'll never be able to observe that 'dark matter' either, but it definitely exists on this graph paper..."

....riiiiiiiight...

[scotts]

I have a question about NGC 7319 and the quaser in front of it. The 'mainstream' seems to think that we are seeing the quaser through the dust cloud of NGC 7319. How do we support our 'In Front' position against that statement?

[nick c]

Hi scotts,
Check out Don Scott's site and the images with his comments on the quasar in front of NGC 7319.

In fact, a higher magnification image of the quasar (below) shows a "jet" of matter extending out from the center of NGC 7319 toward the quasar.

http://www.electric-cosmos.org/arp.htm

Nick

[solrey]

Some in 'mainstream' might try to pass this off as a distant quasar shining through the galaxy but the data indicates otherwise.

Discovery By UCSD Astronomers Poses A Cosmic Puzzle: Can A 'Distant' Quasar Lie Within A Nearby Galaxy?

The team’s findings, which were presented today in San Diego at the January meeting of the American Astronomical Society and which will appear in the February 10 issue of the Astrophysical Journal, raise a fundamental problem for astronomers who had long assumed that the “high redshifts” in the light spectra of quasars meant these objects were among the fastest receding objects in the universe and, therefore, billions of light years away.

“Most people have wanted to argue that quasars are right at the edge of the universe,” said Geoffrey Burbidge, a professor of physics and astronomer at the University of California at San Diego’s Center for Astrophysics and Space Sciences and a member of the team. “But too many of them are being found closely associated with nearby, active galaxies for this to be accidental. If this quasar is physically associated with this galaxy, it must be close by.”

“If it weren’t for this redshift dilemma, astronomers would have thought quasars originated from these galaxies or were fired out from them like bullets or cannon balls,” he added.

Using a three-meter telescope operated by the University of California at Lick Observatory in the mountains above San Jose and the university’s 10-meter Keck I telescope on Mauna Kea in Hawaii, she and her team measured the redshifts of the spiral galaxy and quasar and found that the quasar appears to be interacting with the interstellar gas within the galaxy.

Because quasars and black holes are generally found within the most energetic parts of galaxies, their centers, the astronomers are further persuaded that this particular quasar resides within this spiral galaxy. Geoffrey Burbidge added that the fact that the quasar is so close to the center of this galaxy, only 8 arc seconds from the nucleus, and does not appear to be shrouded in any way by interstellar gas make it highly unlikely that the quasar lies far behind the galaxy, its light shining through the galaxy near its center by “an accident of projection.”

“If this quasar is close by, its redshift cannot be due to the expansion of the universe,” he adds. “If this is the case, this discovery casts doubt on the whole idea that quasars are very far away and can be used to do cosmology.”

The online pdf of the published paper:

The Discovery of a High Redshift X-ray Emitting QSO Very Close to the Nucleus of NGC 7319

Also the recent announcement of a lack of 'time dilation' in high redshift quasars is something else that is expected in an electric universe but poses a conundrum for big bang and inflation theories as discussed in this thread:

New Study: Quasars Devoid Of All Time Dilation

cheers

[Jarvamundo]

Some perspective on the images:
* The big blinding stars you see are actually in our own galaxy, we are peering through our galaxy to look at these galaxies.

* When Burbridge talks about "chance" alignment, you need to keep in perspective how bigger chance this is, a widefield of the area gives you perspective on this.
http://brucepipes.home.comcast.net/~bru ... uintet.jpg
(remember now, all those big stars in that pic are from our own galaxy... the stars in the other galaxies form the 'smudge', they are not resolved.

* The Hubble photo is an extremely detailed close up of this area:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... rated2.gif

* Burbridge also talks about the 'chance' that quasars (these supposedly extremely distant objects) are aligned in a highly active area. This composite image shows how active this area is...
http://web.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/apple ... otated.jpg
(remember that widefield now... )

* To then have that quasar, with a v shaped jet, along a minor axis, shining brightly (nearly as distinguishable as the stars in our own galaxy) is a statistically ridiculous chance... To suggest it's 'shining' through an opaque active galaxy is absurd.
http://www.electric-cosmos.org/NGC7319quasarLabeled.jpg

Putting this together in a picture: ( bear in mind, the activity of this quintet)
http://mm04.nasaimages.org/MediaManager ... ofileid=39
* Top Image: look at that wide field snap again... all of these galaxies are meant to be active... if we go purely off redshift=distance... then we end up with this mainstream positioning of the galaxies (top part of image)...
* Bottom Part of Image: If redshift is ignored as suggested by burbridge, the picture of interacting, highly active galaxies makes sense.

EU: This picture and perspective all aligns with the EU/PC picture... of galaxy activity forming in structures along intergalactic birkeland currents. ie. Where there is a concentration of current or changes in current, we will see activity on all scales. Within the universe it would be galaxies forming, within a galaxy it would be star formation or supernova, within the solar system it would be sun's changing size, weather.

Too often we only quickly skim the juicy highres and do not fully appreciate the perspective of what Burbridge and Arp are talking about.... with a background in visual astronomy they know how big the sky is... Today we seem to be obsessed with super highres pixels, and can miss the perspective of what these pixels really mean.

Even Tiger knows, Light-years are useless without arc-seconds.
Drive faw show, Put faw dough

[jjohnson]

Alex, I'd bet that not only the "big"stars in the Quintet picture, (bigness being an artifact of high apparent brightness; not size or proximity) but almost every single object that can be resolved as one of the many scattered dots of light are stars in our galaxy, or else it is a galaxy so distant that we cannot resolve it to more than a tiny couple of pixels that look like just another star.

You are spot on about the smudges being billions of stars in a galaxy made small by distance. Even our closest galaxy neighbors' images do not resolve stars well except where they are isolated around the edges. Stars within arms tend to range around 4 to perhaps 10 LY apart from each other. Thousands and millions of LY away, that spacing, huge though it is, cannot be resolved, and they all blur together like the dots on a newspaper picture held, not at arm's length, but a kilometre away or more!

Jim