Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

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mharratsc
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Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by mharratsc » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:09 am

You might think that this pertains more to Planetary Science, but- in truth- I'm laying it out here as a statement that Mainstream doesn't even have it's ducks in a row regarding events on our own planet much less in the depths of observable space...

http://www.physorg.com/news3959.html

The article reads:
Gamma rays from thunderstorms?

May 3rd, 2005 Duke University engineers have led the most detailed analyses of links between some lightning events and mysterious gamma ray emissions that emanate from earth's own atmosphere. Their study suggests that this gamma radiation fountains upward from starting points surprisingly low in thunderclouds. Counter-intuitively, these strong gamma outbursts also seem to precede associated lightning discharges by a split second.




"All of this comes as a huge surprise," said Steven Cummer, an assistant professor of electrical and computer engineering at Duke's Pratt School of Engineering. "These are higher energy gamma rays than come from the sun. And yet here they are coming from the kind of terrestrial thunderstorm that we see here all the time."

Cummer, Pratt School graduate student Wenyi Hu and postdoctoral researcher Yuhu Zhai described their analyses in a paper published online Saturday, April 30 in the journal Geophysical Research Letters. Other co-authors include David Smith of the University of California, Santa Cruz; Liliana Lopez of the University of California, Berkeley; and Mark Stanley of Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.

The research was funded by the National Science Foundation.

Natural emissions of gamma rays, the most energetic forms of light, are usually triggered only by high-energy events in outer space. Such events include thermonuclear reactions within the sun, interactions between cosmic rays and black-hole-creating star collapses.

But in 1994, scientists using the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory satellite first detected gamma rays seemingly originating near the earth's surface. And researchers quickly found evidence that those emissions were connected to lightning, Cummer said.

Beginning in 2002, the Reuven Ramaty High Energy Solar Spectroscopic Imager (RHESSI) satellite -- launched to study x-rays and gamma rays from the sun --also began detecting larger numbers of what scientists began terming terrestrial gamma ray flashes (TGFs).

Smith and Lopez were two of the four authors of a February 2005 paper in the journal Science that first described RHESSI-detected TGFs, and also corroborated those with lightning frequency data.

In the new Duke-led study, Cummer and his assistants made what he termed "very careful and continuous recordings" of lightning emissions in a targeted area over a four month period of 2004.

By analyzing those records, they identified lightning episodes they could link in time and place to TGFs recorded by RHESSI in the tropical Caribbean region. "We quantify the lightning-TGF relationship in detail and attempt to constrain the possible source mechanisms," the authors wrote in Geophysical Research Letters.

Cummer's team analyzed data from two specialized instruments installed in Duke Forest, an outdoor research reserve near the university's campuses. One of those devices performs sensitive long-range measurements of radio waves in the Very Low Frequency and Extremely Low Frequency bands -- from 50 to 30,000 and 3 to 3,000 hertz (cycles per second) respectively. The other instrument is sensitive to even lower frequencies, ranging from less than 0.1 to 400 hertz.

Cummer originally installed these radio wave detectors to perform long range studies tying Midwestern thunderstorms with the creation of ghostly, brief flashes in the upper atmosphere, known as "sprites."

"RHESSI didn't detect any TGFs in the Midwestern U.S. where people detect sprites," Cummer said. "But there were a lot of TGFs in Indonesia, Africa and the American Caribbean area. Of those, the Caribbean is 2,000-4,000 kilometers from our sensors -- in the scale of things actually quite close. So we were able to say with very strong certainty whether lightning happened in the Caribbean at a specific time."

Their analysis raised major questions about how well the connection between lightning and gamma rays could be explained by a favored hypothesis known as "runaway breakdown," Cummer said.

Runaway breakdown begins with collisions between extraterrestrial cosmic rays and the atmosphere, which generates a few very high energy electrons. A sufficiently strong electric field can further accelerate these electrons. That can cause additional collisions, producing more high energy electrons until "the whole process avalanches," he said.

Such an electron avalanche in the electrical field immediately following a strong lightning discharge could create a high energy electron beam at altitudes of between 30 and 50 kilometers, according to the hypothesis. That beam would then produce gamma rays as it interacts with the atmosphere.

"If this were the operating mechanism, we should see enormous lightning strokes associated with every one of those TGFs," Cummer said. "But we found that this was unequivocally not the case."

Instead, the lightning strokes his group analyzed were 50-500 times smaller than what should be required to create TGFs by runaway breakdown, according to the Geophysical Research Letters report.

Their report suggested that runaway breakdown at a much lower altitude, created within "strong fields in or just above the thundercloud," could have triggered the TGFs instead. "It still almost certainly has to be runaway breakdown that's creating these," Cummer said. "The only real possibility is that it's much closer to the cloud top, and linked to something else happening inside the cloud."

The detailed Duke-led analysis also disclosed that, on average, TGFs occurred 1.24 milliseconds before their associated lightning strokes. "That was something we absolutely were not expecting," Cummer said. "But the coincidence between the lightning and the TGFs we found is too good to be random. So, even if the TGFs precede the lightning, they are in some way connected."

Their paper suggests one possibility for such a negative cause-and-effect relationship. Perhaps "TGFs are produced by a process associated with the development of the observed lightning stroke, but that actually occurs about 1 millisecond before the stroke itself," the authors wrote.

Cummer says his Duke group is now building cheaper and more portable versions of both kinds of low frequency radio detectors. He hopes to someday install those closer to satellite-observed TGF hot spots in the Caribbean region in order to make even more detailed observations.

"We now know where to go, because RHESSI has told us where these things happen," he said.

Source: Duke University
So the astronomers and astrophysicists that have been maintaining that only nuclear fusion reactions could cause the energetic, high-frequency events in space... I don't see them making any retaliatory comments at these meteorologists saying "This is preposterous! There's no way that energetic events like that could happen in a mere Thunderbolt!!"

Umm... what has E.U. been maintaining for quite some time now? 8-)

And just as a somewhat amusing aside, here's the vaunted Wikipedia entry for 'Gamma Ray':
Gamma ray
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Gamma rays (denoted as γ) are electromagnetic radiation of high energy. They are produced by sub-atomic particle interactions, such as electron-positron annihilation, neutral pion decay, radioactive decay, fusion, fission or inverse Compton scattering in astrophysical processes."
Methinks they need to add "and extreme electrical discharge events" ;)

Mike H.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

Osmosis
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Re: Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by Osmosis » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:22 pm

And perhaps peeling masking tape? :D

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junglelord
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Re: Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by junglelord » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:44 am

I have a sneaking suspision, that based on what I have learned from high energy aether physics, that this phenomanom is due to excitation of the vacuum state and we have the production of high energy particles from the virtual flux of the ZPE.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
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mharratsc
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Re: Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by mharratsc » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:03 am

I wouldn't be a bit surprised, Os... they found the x-rays, but probably their equipment didn't have the range to detect all the way up to gamma. ;)


Mike H.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

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solrey
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Re: Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by solrey » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:08 am

Their paper suggests one possibility for such a negative cause-and-effect relationship. Perhaps "TGFs are produced by a process associated with the development of the observed lightning stroke, but that actually occurs about 1 millisecond before the stroke itself," the authors wrote.
Reeeaaallly? Studying lightning, yet they apparently are not aware of step-leaders?

IMO, the number of "steps" the leader strokes experience determines the energy level of the lead stroke, where fewer "steps" dissipate less energy to produce gamma ray energies, while more "steps" dissipates more energy in which case the lead strokes stay within the range of x-ray energies.
“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla

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Re: Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by Anaconda » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:43 am

Hi mharratsc:

Great find!

What this tells me is quite simple and obvious -- the keys to understanding the Universe and its large scale structures are right here on Earth -- imagine that -- the keys are right here on Earth and available to Man and can be studied and eventually understood and explained.

Funny, how it always seems there is a pathway available for Man's reason & understanding -- if only Man will take the right pathway ;)

Man's greatest gift is reason and the ability to apply that reason to his environment to gain understanding.

Too bad "modern" astronomy is sooo determined to relegate astronomy to mathematical figments of the imagination that can never be studied first hand -- of course, that means it can never be falsified -- and have its funding cutoff and redirected into more productive avenues of investigation.

Just maybe, that is the real reason "modern" astronomers are so dogmatic about their assumptions, the threat of having funding cutoff trumps all considerations about the truth of the matters investigated (or am I being unreasonably cynical).

But there is hope of correction because here on Earth, in the field and in the laboratory, dogmatic assumptions have a lot harder time standing up to contact with observational facts.

This is the advantage Electric Universe theories have and will always have against "modern" astronomy's mathematical figments of imagination :)

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solrey
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Re: Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by solrey » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:46 am

Right on, Anaconda. These studies of terrestrial lightning would provide clues as to what's happening with cosmic GRB's and the time lag between the gamma and x-ray energies produced, if they would just take off the blinders and see all the levels of connections within the "big picture".
Too much specialization, imo.

I talked to a physics graduate student a few weeks ago at a little event where they had the Oregon State U. solar powered vehicle on display. I told the kid I had a degree in aerospace technology and was a licensed aircraft mechanic so he'd know I had some relevant knowledge. I asked about the batteries and if they had looked into the new capacitor batteries under development. He totally poo-pooed the whole idea of these batteries working on a solar powered vehicle, apparently unaware and unwilling to listen to the fact that, Honda I think, has over 150,000 miles on capbatteries in an electric vehicle! They're perfect for solar as they charge more rapidly, with way more charge/discharge cycle life, than any other battery technology currently being used.
When I talked about DC brushless motors and some of my experiences with them, he was totally clueless about the fact that the rigs I was describing were DC brushless motors like the new hub motor they were going to use on their next vehicle.
Even though I was taking an inquisitive approach, he just had such an elitist attitude all I could do eventually was politely thank him for his time and walk away laughing.
I didn't even try to discuss monocoque body/frame design and how to save weight without sacrificing strength with properly shaped materials, instead of the ridiculously heavy tubular framing they were using.

Anyways, that experience just seemed to portray the serious lack of convergence of disciplines plaguing the sciences these days, and how if you're not in their "club", your opinions or ideas don't count. :evil:
“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla

Anaconda
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Re: Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by Anaconda » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:24 am

Hi solrey:

Always fun to discuss issues with you -- even if just via electronic boards :)
solrey wrote:
Anyways, that experience just seemed to portray the serious lack of convergence of disciplines plaguing the sciences these days, and how if you're not in their "club", your opinions or ideas don't count. :evil:
Yes, solrey, you hit the nail on the head.

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junglelord
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Re: Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by junglelord » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:43 pm

Its not that they do not count, its that our ideas scare them, because it takes away their power and intellectual base...so they play oblivious and continue with their party line monotone replys. Pull the string and listen to the baby talk.
:lol:
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

mharratsc
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Re: Convergence of disciplines = ... truth?

Post by mharratsc » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:51 pm

I always appreciate hearing from you guys :) Even you, JL- tho I confess most of the time I don't even come close to understanding the stuff you're talking about... :? But! As long as you understand what you're talking about, I'm copacetic- I trust ya! :D

You know- the thing that really strikes me is the secularism displayed in that article. I was just going back through a bunch of Wal's Holoscience articles, and came across this mention of gamma ray emissions detected from the Earth's atmosphere:
Bering notes that short duration (~1 ms) gamma ray (>1 MeV) bursts of terrestrial origin have been detected by the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory over thunderstorm regions, and their source is believed to lie at altitudes greater than 30 km. X-rays and gamma-rays are hallmarks of high-energy electric discharge processes. An external source delivering power through an atmosphere that is increasing in density downwards, can be expected to give rise to the highest energy radiation at the top of the atmosphere or at the footprints of arcs on the surface (lightning
That was from The Balloon goes up over lightning!, the highlight is mine.

Notice what it said? "OVER thunderstorm regions"...

... and what else appears over thunderstorm regions? High altitude lightning events like jets/gnomes, sprites, elves.

what does it take to get these guys to put 2+2 together???

I swear- the cranial density is approaching solid granite >.<

Mike H.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

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