Smaller planets between the larger ones??

[tholden]

Just noticed something.......................................

The picture of the Saturn system which we've been seeing since around 94 or so:



What that really is, is what you'd see with Earth, Venus, and Mars BETWEEN Jupiter and Saturn and facing Saturn, and the sun behind Jupiter, and the shadow of Jupiter over everything except the brighter crescent edge of Saturn.

But I've somehow or other never seen that written anywhere. Am I the first person to figure that out, or did everybody else figure it out 15 years ago and I just never heard about it, or what exactly??

[omni-tom]

Read up on Immanuel Velikovsky, and it was about 50 years ago

[tholden]

The picture in question is not any more recent than from around 94. Velikovsky never had anything to say about a Saturn configuration and David Talbott originally thought the crescent in the icons and glyphs represented Saturn's present ring.

[Lloyd]

Ted, I think Cardona stated in his Jupiter, God of Abraham article in the early 80s in Kronos magazine that Saturn was initially seen at the North Pole, but the Earth flipped over at the end of the Saturn Age and Jupiter was seen to take Saturn's place, which suggests that Jupiter was over the South Pole during the Saturn Age. So, indeed, he has suggested that Earth, Mars and Venus were between Saturn and Jupiter. It took me a long time to understand the theory too.

[solrey]

Comparing axial tilt, Jupiter and Mercury would seem to be members of the Sol family, while Earth, Venus and Mars were part of the Saturnian family. If the Earth physically flipped, while inbetween Saturn and Jupiter, could that have been the result of the Saturn system interacting with Jupiter during the time that Saturn was being captured by the sun? If those three planets had the longest orbital radii in relation to the other satellites of Saturn, they would have been the first to get kicked out of Saturns orbit as its own orbit was being influenced by Jupiter, analogous to valence electrons. Maybe Mercury was an outer planet that got kicked out of Jupiters orbit. The asteroid belt is probably debris from these catastrophic events. The Earth probably captured our moon at this time, a smaller satellite of Saturn that got taken along for the ride. I'll bet that successive, less catastrophic events in the distant past, post Saturn capture, were the result of the remaining outer gas giants being captured and disrupting the EM environment of our solar system.

[Lloyd]

* I think Cardona has said that Jupiter seems to have been connected with the Saturn system for at least some centuries. Mercury may have been a satellite of Jupiter, as I guess you may be implying. Cardona is writing a lot of books, so I hope he explains things well in his upcoming books.

[nick c]

Ted,
The same picture appears on the back cover of Aeon IV #1, April 1995, in an ad for the Mythscape video.
I could be mistaken, I thought that the picture is not showing the shadow of Jupiter on Saturn, but rather Saturn illuminated as a crescent by the Sun with the blue Venus and red Mars, also illuminated as crescents, superimposed in the center of the disc of Saturn. This picture would depict Saturn shining brightly at the midnight position (Talbott) the crescent rotating around the disc of proto Saturn during the course of the day, being positioned at the top of the disc at noon. If Jupiter is present it might be behind Saturn and thus not visible in this picture.
So the order of planets in the picture went:
Jupiter (not visible)-Saturn-Venus-Mars-Earth (viewer)
If I remember correctly this was the scenario portrayed by the computer animation in the video [url2=http://www.mikamar.biz/book-info/rew-a.htm]Mythscape Remembering the End of the World[/url2]
So when Saturn was 'overthrown,' ie moved out of the way, there appeared Jupiter looming large in the sky. Zeus had deposed his father Kronos.
The problem is to account for the mythological evidence that after Saturn was removed, Jupiter suddenly appeared large in the sky, ushering in a new age under Jupiter/Zeus' rulership, implying that Jupiter must have been near, but hidden from view, either at the S pole (Cardonna) or alternatively behind (eclipsed by) proto Saturn (Talbott.)
I think that was the state of affairs in the late 80's to early 90's. The EU and the possibility of brown dwarf capture being a later development.
As I said initially, I could be wrong about that

nick c

[moses]

Planets between Saturn and Jupiter makes for the easiest solution. A rotating
system of planets where Earth and Mars could oscillate near and far from Saturn.
Thus only rarely would Earth and Mars come very close together. Hundreds or
thousands of years between such near touching events.

My theory has initially Mars with life and Earth without life. It leads me to
wonder if Earth came with Saturn whilst Mars bathed under the Sun. It is
possible that Earth came with a big planet that split into two bodies under the
stress of encountering the Solar System. Mars got caught up in this Jupiter-
Earth-Saturn system and so began the transfer of material from Mars to Earth
during these rare near touching events. This would mean that Saturn and Jupiter
are young newborns. Well they are pretty lively ! It also helps explain the
birth of Venus and Titan.

I could go on for hours dreaming up this stuff. Many other possibilities match
a Mars with life and an Earth without life.
Mo

[Julian Braggins]

Stumbled on this the other day,

Wednesday, July 1, 2009
How Planets Can Reverse Their Rotations

http://oilismastery.blogspot.com/

which is a video of spinning ball magnets in an electrical field, which alter orbit and reverse their direction of rotation, without alteration of the field.
Having just re-read ,


http://www.saturniancosmology.org/

it gave an insight as to how things could have happened, with a possible mechanism?

[David Talbott]

Ted,
The same picture appears on the back cover of Aeon IV #1, April 1995, in an ad for the Mythscape video.
I could be mistaken, I thought that the picture is not showing the shadow of Jupiter on Saturn, but rather Saturn illuminated as a crescent by the Sun with the blue Venus and red Mars, also illuminated as crescents, superimposed in the center of the disc of Saturn. This picture would depict Saturn shining brightly at the midnight position (Talbott) the crescent rotating around the disc of proto Saturn during the course of the day, being positioned at the top of the disc at noon. If Jupiter is present it might be behind Saturn and thus not visible in this picture.
....
nick c

Nick, your assessment is the closest to the mark. The nature of the claimed planetary alignment is a centerpiece of the documentary series in development, "Symbols of an Alien Sky." Though I was the originator of the hypothesis--"way back when" (1972-74)--others began to contribute to the discussion in the late 70s. As I originally proposed to a few editors of Pensée and to others, Jupiter was hidden behind Saturn. The other planets--Venus, Mars, and Earth were either on or close to the collinear axis.

Most of the issues with respect to planetary position can be resolved through a rigorous comparative approach to ancient testimony, I believe. But obviously the highest level of confidence pertains to the positions of the two most active players, Venus and Mars. The lowest level of confidence pertains to Jupiter. All of the major evidential issues will be covered in the first three episodes of Symbols.

Six ten-minute segments of the first episode are now posted on YouTube and can be viewed as a playlist [url2=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_jeHrJ ... playnext=1]here[/url2].

It's looking as if the first episode, originally visualized as 60 minutes, will in fact be closer to 80-90 minutes.

David Talbott

[Lloyd]

* Does Cardona support the idea that Jupiter was behind Saturn now? He thought previously that Jupiter was over Earth's south pole, while Saturn was over the north pole, and that Earth flipped over, making Jupiter the new god of the north and Saturn the displaced god. I think he said this event occurred in the time of Abraham, which is why he said Abraham chose Jupiter as his god [i.e. Jupiter = Jove = Jahweh, I think]. Cardona also said that the catastrophe at Sodom etc was caused by a discharge from Jupiter or its moon Io, which left deposits of sulphur, also called brimstone, known to be abundant on Io at least.

[Siggy_G]

I'm not sure if I follow you guys' interpretation of the initial photo...

To me it looks like the source photo, for some weird reason, simply is rotated 90 degrees counter clockwise. How come all of the three planets have a crescent edge underneath and a shade/cast-shadow covering the rest? What casts a shadow on Mars and Venus in the exact same manner as on Saturn (allegedly from Jupiter)? As I see it, the crescent edge is the part lit by the sun, just like with the moon phases. We observe the planets in their orbit with the Sun on the left side, outside the photo. Except the photo is rotated (the sun appearing below). I also wonder what back lights the planets. Their shade isn't black, but quite self illuminated. Perhaps photo manipulation or combination of various wave length photos.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Siggy,
That isn't a photo, it is a computer-generated image custom built to fit a theory.

[Lloyd]

* The image was custom-built to fit the reports of ancient observers of what the Saturn system looked like, when Earth, Mars and Venus were apparently moons of Saturn over 4,000 years ago. The image shows Saturn in the background, with Venus in front of Saturn and Mars in front of Venus. The bright crescent on Saturn was sunshine from the Sun. The Moon looks somewhat like that when it's in some of its phases and for the same reason. The darker part of Saturn didn't get completely dark, like the Moon's dark portion often does, because Saturn generates some of its own light. The sun was not seen, until the breakup of the Saturn system, because haze or clouds etc was too thick for it to be visible, but not too thick to block sunlight. It was probably like looking at a bright light through a half pingpong ball. The light is diffused and translucent.

[SpaceTravellor]

So how did it look like in those days with 49 moons orbiting Saturn ?