Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

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flyingcloud
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Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by flyingcloud » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:43 pm

I was researching some ideas regarding various gasses as they pertain to creating plasma and stumbled upon this. It led me back to some of my temperature 'infinity waves' figure 8 sorta things, and I thought it may be of interest. I take everything with a grain of salt but some interesting snipets are usually present.

Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 151457.htm
ScienceDaily (Feb. 15, 2009) — Several years after Duke University researchers announced spectacular behavior of a low density ultracold gas cloud, researchers at Brookhaven National Laboratory have observed strikingly similar properties in a very hot and dense plasma "fluid" created to simulate conditions when the universe was about one millionths of a second old.

The plasma was formed at a colossal 2 million degrees Kelvin temperatures within Brookhaven's Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC). The gas cloud was cooled to only .1 millionths of a degree Kelvin temperatures using a laser light "trap" and magnetic field at Duke. But both drastically different systems expanded something like exploding cigars. And their constituent matter also showed signs of flowing almost free of any viscosity -- a "nearly perfect" fluid, said Duke physics professor John Thomas.

"There's about 19 orders of magnitude difference in temperature and about 25 orders of magnitude difference in density, but the commonality of both is almost zero viscosity flow," said Thomas.

Thomas reported on his laboratory's experiments with "fermion" gases and their possible relevance to RHIC's "quark-gluon plasma" research as well as to string theory during a Feb. 15 symposium organized by Brookhaven during the American Association of Science's 2009 Annual meeting, held in Chicago.

In a November, 2002 report in the research journal Science, Thomas and co-researchers described what happened after they confined a cloud of lithium-6 atoms and cooled them to 100 billionths of a degree above absolute zero. When the ultracooled, cigar-shaped cloud was then released from the trap, it expanded "anisotropically," meaning "fastest along the direction that was initially narrow," he recalled.

Lithium atoms are of the fermion class, meaning that that their spin-states normally make them keep more of a distance from each other than their chummier counterpart class of atoms -- the bosons. But under the extreme conditions of his experiments, even fermions find ways to collide to form what are called "strong interactions," he said.

Brookhaven's RHIC is designed to smash gold atoms together near the speed of light. Its goal is to create energies colossal enough to break apart their nuclei into an ultrahot gas of the most fundamental particles, "naked" quarks and gluons. Theoreticians believe such a "quark-gluon plasma" has not existed since a split-second after the Big Bang.

As the results of those experiments began to surface in April, 2005, RHIC experimenters found that "the cigar shaped plasma looked very much like the cigar- shaped cloud in our trap," Thomas said. That cloud also expanded anisotropically in keeping with what theorists in the field had predicted. Researchers also found that this plasma behaved as an almost-perfect fluid. Meanwhile, further work by Thomas's group has documented almost viscosity-free fluid states in its cold fermion gases.

Thomas noted that quarks themselves are also fermions. "So there's quite a broad overlap, and a genuine common interest in these two patterns. We don't have exactly the same system as at RHIC. But in a broad sense there are similarities that could be exploited to get some insight."

Meanwhile, researchers involved in string theory have also approached Thomas about similarities between his fermion findings and the predicted behavior of what those theorists call "strongly interacting quantum fields," he said. "It's not clear, though, that the prediction has any relevance to Fermi atoms colliding in a trap. However, the closeness of the initial cold gas measurements to the predictions is striking."

Elements of string theory aim at bridging the gap between quantum mechanics and general relativity by proposing that the true fundamental particles are actually ultra-tiny strings vibrating in multiple dimensions
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0022-3727/35/17/311
Abstract. Application of the inductively coupled thermal plasma (ICTP) technique was proposed for investigating plasma-quenching efficiency of various gases including the arc-quenching medium of SF6. The ICTP enables us to study fundamentally the effect of gas injection on thermal plasma without any impurities because it has no electrode. Seven kinds of gases including CO2, SF6 and environmentally benign gases (N2, O2, air, He and H2) were injected into Ar ICTP. Spectroscopic observation was carried out in order to investigate a change in the excited state of Ar atoms due to addition of these gases. Radial distributions of the radiation intensity of Ar spectral lines and the temperature of Ar ICTP were estimated. It was found that 10% CO2 addition causes a remarkable decline of the radiation intensity and temperature at any radial position, similarly to 2% SF6 addition. Two-dimensional local thermal equilibrium modelling for Ar ICTP also revealed that CO2 causes temperature decay more than the other gases of N2, O2, air, He and H2 except SF6.
Low-dielectric-constant SiOF films are deposited using O2/SiF4 and O2/FSi(OC2H5)3 mixtures in a helicon plasma reactor, and good quality films can be obtained without intentional heating or biasing of the substrate. Optical emission spectroscopy (OES) is used to study the relation between the relative densities of the radicals and the film properties. The OES data imply that the source gases are highly dissociated above the RF power of 900 W where the helicon mode is generated. Consequently, the mechanism of helicon plasma chemical vapor deposition (CVD) is different from that of thermal CVD. In the case of thermal CVD, the source gases react chemically on the high-temperature substrate and form films. However, in the case of helicon wave plasma CVD, the source gases are highly dissociated in the high-density plasma and many radicals are produced, that react on the substrate. SiOF films are made in the case of O2/SiF4 but CF/SiOF composite films are made in the case of O2/FSi(OC2H5)3, where FSi(OC2H5)3 is highly dissociated in plasma and C participates in the film formation. Films with a low dielectric constant of below 3.0 can be made.
So basically my inspiration was that the charged partcles, ions, making up the plasma of various content, (not that I actually understand if what I'm suggesting is even possible but anyway), shouldn't oxygen plasma quantities/currents be attracted to hydrogen plasma quantities/currents, or various relatively elemantally pure plasmas interact chemically in a similar way.

earls
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by earls » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:52 am

To me, electrons mediate chemical interactions, so if we're talking about plasmas and ions, they can't really interact chemically if they have like charges. No? Or was that not what you were asking?

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junglelord
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by junglelord » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:48 pm

In super hot (plasma) and super cold (bose einstein condensate) you have the "rules" being broken.
Birkeland currents actually bring like charges together. The same is true in a BEC.
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Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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StevenO
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by StevenO » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:38 pm

This is a very interesting observation since interstellar plasma's can only be at very low temperature due to the low pressure.
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solrey
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by solrey » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:51 pm

In a November, 2002 report in the research journal Science, Thomas and co-researchers described what happened after they confined a cloud of lithium-6 atoms and cooled them to 100 billionths of a degree above absolute zero. When the ultracooled, cigar-shaped cloud was then released from the trap, it expanded "anisotropically," meaning "fastest along the direction that was initially narrow," he recalled.
As the results of those experiments began to surface in April, 2005, RHIC experimenters found that "the cigar shaped plasma looked very much like the cigar- shaped cloud in our trap," Thomas said. That cloud also expanded anisotropically in keeping with what theorists in the field had predicted. Researchers also found that this plasma behaved as an almost-perfect fluid. Meanwhile, further work by Thomas's group has documented almost viscosity-free fluid states in its cold fermion gases.
I remembered this link that MGMirkin posted and it sounded like a very similar phenomena.

http://www.mpe.mpg.de/theory/plasma-cry ... ts2_e.html

So what I'm seeing is that the cigar shape and particle movement are the same in a variety of conditions. Since plasma behavior is scalable we can expect the same dynamics to appear on a cosmic level. We do see a lot of football/cigar shapes in the cosmos.
I'm wondering if under more complex conditions, like those found in space, if there might be also be an attractive force within the cigar shaped structure, basically defining a double layer containing a galaxy. Could the pinch zones at the heart of galaxies be the repulsive void, with an attractive skin, phenomena noted in their experiments, within that larger attractive structure?
“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
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flyingcloud
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by flyingcloud » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:24 pm

earls wrote:To me, electrons mediate chemical interactions, so if we're talking about plasmas and ions, they can't really interact chemically if they have like charges. No? Or was that not what you were asking?
I'm thinking plasmas can be charged either way, ionized gas and all...


http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0022-3727/6/16/308
Abstract. Cylindrical probe measurements have been made in an iodine vapour plasma containing a ratio of negative ions to electrons sufficiently large for electron effects to be neglected; that is, in a positive-ion/negative-ion plasma. The ion-ion plasma was produced by allowing plasma from the Faraday dark space of a DC iodine glow discharge to diffuse into a side-arm. Almost symmetrical current-voltage probe characteristics were obtained in the ion-ion plasma, and both the positive and negative current regions were found to follow a (current)2-voltage relationship, as would be expected if ion collection by the probe was orbital-limited. The characteristics were analysed using orbital-limited current theory to provide data on plasma potential, ion number density and Debye length. The results of the analysis are consistent with the dominant ion species in the ion-ion plasma being I2+ and I3−.
http://www.physics.uiowa.edu/~rmerlino/nishocks.pdf
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/press-release ... echnology/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... b342298ea3
Abstract
An experimental method is presented which combines state selection of reactant ions by threshold photoelectron-photoion coincidence following VUV photoionization with radiofrequency octopole ion guides. Absolute cross sections were measured for the charge transfer between state-selected Ar+(2Pj) ions and molecular oxygen as a function of collision energy in the 0.4–4 eV (CM) range. A critical analysis of the absolute values of both this study and studies reported in the literature is given, in which possible artifacts are identified mainly from coincidence time-of-flight spectra of O2+ product ions. Charge transfer mechanisms are discussed as a function of collision energy and fine structure state of Ar+ reactant ions.
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0022-3727/4/10/308
Abstract. Total cross sections for the production of slow negative ions in collisions of O− and O2− ions with O2 molecules have been measured for incident ion energies in the range 4 to 100 eV, using a single-collision beam technique. Over the whole energy range for O2− and for O− energies greater than approximately 35 eV the dominant contribution to the cross section is attributed to simple charge transfer, while, for low-energy O− beams, elastic scattering has an important effect. The results are compared with those of Rutherford and Turner and Bailey and Mahadevan and reasons are suggested for the large discrepancies which appear for O− in O2 cross sections.
I'm thinking that all chemical reactions that involve the sharing and or transfer of valence electron(s) will be a scalar plasma discharge event

i also suspect that pos and neg plasmas coexist within the same plasma entity at any given time

earls
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by earls » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:03 pm

"i also suspect that pos and neg plasmas coexist within the same plasma entity at any given time"

mmmm. good point. i had not considered that... Despite the plasma "overall" being positively or negatively charged, there should be a local "dipole gradients." I will take this under advisement.

So is it the moderation of smaller electromagnetic domains (sub-particles) that bring like charges together due to the extreme temperatures?

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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by flyingcloud » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:19 am

nice,
it would certainly take less space
almost the path of least resistence
birds of a feather, flocking like geese
the most efficient way of self preservation



temperature and pressure, they are twins I can't change one without affecting the other especially with water
I can control elemental state changes with either/both

earls
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by earls » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:02 am

Speaking of temperature and pressure (which you would think would be minuscule in space because of... all of the space), check out this positive feedback loop magnetic fields cause in plasmas where as the plasma heats up, the magnetic field becomes stronger causing the plasma to heat up even more... All stemming from "turbulence."

http://www.physorg.com/news154893335.html

Completely ignored on physorg...

I imagine this is the "seed" of star/planet formation...

No mention of "currents" or "electric fields" as would be typical.

The question remains however, at what point, what mechanism kicks in to bring new energy? Or are stars/planets strictly degenerative?

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junglelord
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by junglelord » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:17 pm

I do not see stars and planets as degenrative per say...and while we may be told that is must be that way, I tend to imagine that in fact the opposite is true. Galaxies birthing new plasmoids which in turn form galaxies....planets forming all kinds of complex systems, each being a system that is in fact not entropy...but a super collective, coherent behaviour on a quantum level that has quantum resonance across the entire universe, alive and breathing, in and out....with electrons that are in fact conscious units...but thats a new insight.
;)
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

seasmith
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by seasmith » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:13 pm

~

Brand new ?

;)

earls
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by earls » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:12 am

junglelord, it seems to me the evidence for a reduction cascade is overwhelming... (And certainly not because I was told.) While certainly multiple galaxies may form from one much larger galaxy, no laws of conversation are violated, the sum of the parts are less than the whole. Perhaps you have some evidence for your imagination? The remainder of your statements/beliefs are mind boggling.

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solrey
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by solrey » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:38 am

Star cluster dynamics in a laboratory: electrons in an ultracold plasma
D. Comparat 1★†, T. Vogt 1 , N. Zahzam 1 , M. Mudrich 1 and P. Pillet 1
1 Laboratoire Aimé Cotton, Bât. 505, Campus d'Orsay, 91405 Orsay cedex, France
Electrons in a spherical ultracold, quasi-neutral plasma at temperature in the Kelvin range can be created by laser excitation of an ultracold, laser-cooled atomic cloud. The dynamical behaviour of the electrons is similar to the one described by conventional models of star cluster dynamics. The single mass component, the spherical symmetry and no star evolution are here accurate assumptions. The analogue of binary star formations in the cluster case is a three-body recombination in Rydberg atoms in the plasma case with the same Heggie's law: soft binaries get softer and hard binaries get harder. We demonstrate that the evolution of such an ultracold plasma is dominated by Fokker–Planck kinetics equations formally identical to the ones controlling the evolution of a star cluster. The Virial theorem leads to a link between the plasma temperature and the ions and electron numbers. The Fokker–Planck equation is approximate using gaseous and fluid models. We found that the electrons are in a Kramers–Michie–King type quasi-equilibrium distribution as stars in clusters. We suggest that the evaporation rate can be used to determine the temperature. As an example, knowing the electron distribution and using forced fast electron extraction, in a 'violent extraction' way, we are able to determine the plasma temperature knowing the trapping potential depth.

Accepted 2005 May 30. Received 2005 May 21; in original form 2005 January 5
The following looks like it has some reallly good info. 184 pages of some light reading to kill a minute or two of spare time. :D

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... BvTqAqcMOQ
This work describes the evolution of an ultracold neutral plasma as it expands
freely in vacuum. It presents a comprehensive study of the electron temperature
evolution under different initial conditions. Ultracold neutral plasmas are created by
photoionizing laser-cooled neutral atoms in ultrahigh vacuum. The ions are typically
at a temperature of ∼ 1 K while the electron temperature can be set from 1 - 1000 K.
After photoionization, some of the highly energetic electrons escape from the cloud,
leaving a net positive charge in the cloud. This creates a Coulomb well which traps
the rest of the electrons, and a plasma is formed. Since the electrons have a lot of
kinetic energy, they tend to leave the cloud, however, the Coulomb force from the ion
pulls the electrons back into the cloud. This exerts a recoil force on the ions, and the
whole plasma starts expanding radially outwards.
Since the expansion is caused by the thermal pressure of the electrons, a study of
the plasma expansion unravels the complicated electron temperature evolution, under
different initial conditions. Many collisional processes become significant as a plasma
expands. These physical processes tend to heat or cool the ions and electrons, leading
to very different kinds of evolution depending on the initial conditions of the plasma.

This work demonstrates three different regions of parameter space where the de-
gree of significance of these physical processes is different during the ultracold neutral
plasma evolution. The experimental results are verified by theoretical simulations,
performed by Thomas Pohl, which untangle the complicated electron temperature
evolution.
“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla

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junglelord
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by junglelord » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:53 pm

earls wrote:junglelord, it seems to me the evidence for a reduction cascade is overwhelming... (And certainly not because I was told.) While certainly multiple galaxies may form from one much larger galaxy, no laws of conversation are violated, the sum of the parts are less than the whole. Perhaps you have some evidence for your imagination? The remainder of your statements/beliefs are mind boggling.
I have never seen a electron disappear....it simply becomes a photon and back again.
The creation of matter via the Casimir Effect is quite real, real photons, which become electrons.
Its no big deal to understand that entropy is not the rule of the universe.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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MGmirkin
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Re: Ultracold Gas Mimics Ultrahot Plasma

Post by MGmirkin » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:52 pm

StevenO wrote:This is a very interesting observation since interstellar plasma's can only be at very low temperature due to the low pressure.
And yet, the ions and electrons themselves in space plasma have extremely high "temperature," there just aren't very many of them like there is in a denser medium like as gas or liquid...

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