Climate Change

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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kiwi
Posts: 564
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by kiwi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:51 pm

Iceberg ahead! .. turn this ship around! :? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... claim.html

Mr Lovelock, who has conducted research at Yale and Harvard universities, has been a respected member of the academic community for decades.
He discovered the presence of harmful chemicals – CFCs – in the atmosphere in the 1960s.
He developed the Gaia theory while working with Nasa.
It claims that the Earth has a self-regulating system which has automatically controlled global temperature, atmospheric content, oxygen, ocean salinity, and other factors.
But last month, the scientist admitted that he had been 'alarmist' and 'extrapolated too far' with his doomsday-like predictions on the effects of climate change.
His latest comments came just a week before the Rio+20 summit, a major conference on climate change, to mark the anniversary of the landmark Earth Summit in 1992.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1yUyDtvlb

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paulvsheridan
Posts: 11
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Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by paulvsheridan » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:28 am

I telephoned Mr. Lovelock in 1993ish, prior to and as part of my research on one of the most comprehensive non-environmental issues in modern times: CFCs. One outlet that published my piece (that I still have) is here:

http://links.veronicachapman.com/Sherid ... t-1993.pdf

It did not matter to Lovelock and his trendy ilk, that study after study proved that CFCs posed no real danger to anything, let-alone the ozone layer, and in truth DID have natural sinks: A whole swath of bacteria that would "eat" the CFCs and emit oxygen in the process (Oxygen . . . their next pronounced threat to life?) Anyway, back to Lovelock . . .

When I brought up with him the name Edgar Bronfman, and then Time Magazine, and then patent expirations, and then . . . he rudely hung up after some rant about "irrelevant" this or that.

Great catch kiwi. I ran into this related link, and voted:

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/22/green-drivel

The "Nays: have it! By about 16:1. (Albeit when science is reduced to democratic processes, this will matter. Until then it's just entertaining to see the reversal of their false fortunes . . . ill-gotten gains?)

Asterix
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by Asterix » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:39 pm

kiwi wrote:Iceberg ahead! .. turn this ship around! :? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... claim.html

Mr Lovelock, who has conducted research at Yale and Harvard universities, has been a respected member of the academic community for decades.
He discovered the presence of harmful chemicals – CFCs – in the atmosphere in the 1960s.
He developed the Gaia theory while working with Nasa.
It claims that the Earth has a self-regulating system which has automatically controlled global temperature, atmospheric content, oxygen, ocean salinity, and other factors.
But last month, the scientist admitted that he had been 'alarmist' and 'extrapolated too far' with his doomsday-like predictions on the effects of climate change.
His latest comments came just a week before the Rio+20 summit, a major conference on climate change, to mark the anniversary of the landmark Earth Summit in 1992.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1yUyDtvlb
Hello thank's
Mr. Lovelock is the MégaïaClimatoSpounik missil of his age. Pur pedigree royal science (*** FM or not 33° ? but GreenNuclear ecolo "Super green church!" ;) But like every churchs we have schism.

French
http://www.pensee-unique.fr/paroles.html#lovelockII

Il y a t-il des français sur ce site web ? See you next time.

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phyllotaxis
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:16 pm
Location: Wilmington, NC

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by phyllotaxis » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:20 am

Asterix wrote:
Hello thank's
Mr. Lovelock is the MégaïaClimatoSpounik missil of his age. Pur pedigree royal science (*** FM or not 33° ? but GreenNuclear ecolo "Super green church!" ;) But like every churchs we have schism.

French
http://www.pensee-unique.fr/paroles.html#lovelockII

Il y a t-il des français sur ce site web ? See you next time.
Reading this post must be what having a seizure feels like.

Asterix
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by Asterix » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:36 pm

"Reading this post must be what having a seizure feels like."
La lecture de ce poste doit consister en ce quel fait avoir une saisie a l'impression d'être.
I understand your sentence definitely. To read English makes tired me to more neurones.
I don't realy understand but read "Lovelock" (= l'amour bloquée) for me it's very funny but in french country the "CO2 theory " is stronger than anywhere to. (la pensée unique règne en France, )
We have Cécile Duflot http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A9cile_Duflot for the fun to.
You have see "la chancelière" Merkel who don't know where's berlin, her you have Duflot who don't know Japan is in nord atmospher. This world circus want to she born at 1 april.... no comment.
If you want sources
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xntE9a8K ... r_embedded
http://novusordoseclorum.discutforum.co ... cotartufes

Thank's for MrAmsterdam
Please keep in mind that next to CO2 there are other factors at play here. Pollution, overfishing, destruction of several ocean biotopes....etc etc.
..........
My conclusion is that phytoplankton and coral species are heretics and pseudo-skeptics and simply don't believe that higher levels of CO2 and a more acidic sea will lead to their own destruction and are probably paid by the oil industry to behave like this.
The océans are the "poubelles"(trachs) of world right ! It's the first issue with agriculture.

If an admin want it's may be used for you (archivism on french traduction of the theory. )
http://novusordoseclorum.discutforum.co ... electrique

So good week, au revoir.

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phyllotaxis
Posts: 224
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Location: Wilmington, NC

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by phyllotaxis » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:55 pm

Aucune infraction signifie- il était de bonne humeur J'ai dit cela. Merci pour votre contribution sur le filetage, et bienvenue sur le forum !

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webolife
Posts: 2539
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by webolife » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:22 pm

Asterix,

Oui, bienvenue... moi-meme, je lis et ecris le francais aussi, mais s'il n'y a pas un traduisseur, on doit ecrire en anglais pour le bienfait des autres ici.

Are there no spokespersons for "climategate" in la France? Does no one understand the solar cycles? Do the detractors have a forum to present the growing evidence that anthropogenic CO2 has little to do with longterm climate change? I read your novusordseclorum link, but am unsure who is the primary audience for that particular forum?

J'espere que vous avez envie de tenir bon a The Electric Universe. Posez des questions, et nous essayerons vous repondre.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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MrAmsterdam
Posts: 596
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Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by MrAmsterdam » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:44 am

????

I kid you not; Futerra - “the sustainability communications agency”
http://www.futerra.co.uk/downloads/RulesOfTheGame.pdf

“Currently, telling the public to take notice of climate change is as successful as selling tampons to men”

“Use emotions and visuals: another classic marketing tool: changing behaviour by disseminating information doesn’t always work, but emotions and visuals usually do.”
Futerra as a "sustainability communications agency" is a bit FUBAR

PS Excusez-moi, mais je ne connais pas les mots pour traduire , sur tout ce mot specific - Fubar...
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934

Goldminer
Posts: 1024
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Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by Goldminer » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:26 pm

MrAmsterdam wrote:????

I kid you not; Futerra - “the sustainability communications agency”
http://www.futerra.co.uk/downloads/RulesOfTheGame.pdf

“Currently, telling the public to take notice of climate change is as successful as selling tampons to men”

“Use emotions and visuals: another classic marketing tool: changing behaviour by disseminating information doesn’t always work, but emotions and visuals usually do.”
Futerra as a "sustainability communications agency" is a bit FUBAR

PS Excusez-moi, mais je ne connais pas les mots pour traduire , sur tout ce mot specific - Fubar...


I thought they were fire crackers, but I could never get one to explode!

.
I sense a disturbance in the farce.

seasmith
Posts: 2815
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:59 pm

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by seasmith » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:55 am

is a bit FUBAR

PS Excusez-moi, mais je ne connais pas les mots pour traduire , sur tout ce mot specific - Fubar...
MrAmsterdam,

If you are asking the meaning of FUBAR, it is an old military acronym for (a version of)
fouled up beyond all recognition

[the polite version]

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PersianPaladin
Posts: 668
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:38 am
Location: Turkey

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by PersianPaladin » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:35 am

Climate in Northern Europe Reconstructed for the Past 2,000 Years: Cooling Trend Calculated Precisely for the First Time

ScienceDaily (July 9, 2012) — An international team that includes scientists from Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz (JGU) has published a reconstruction of the climate in northern Europe over the last 2,000 years based on the information provided by tree-rings. Professor Dr. Jan Esper's group at the Institute of Geography at JGU used tree-ring density measurements from sub-fossil pine trees originating from Finnish Lapland to produce a reconstruction reaching back to 138 BC. In so doing, the researchers have been able for the first time to precisely demonstrate that the long-term trend over the past two millennia has been towards climatic cooling.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 092606.htm


A bit of a sensationalist report about it in the Daily Mail I think:-

"Tree-rings prove climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is now - and world has been cooling for 2,000 years"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z20KvhOaAp


The tree-ring study is analysed and critiqued at RealClimate.org:-
The authors make much of the importance of long-term radiative forcing due to the changes in the earth’s orbit for millennial timescale temperature trends. They argue that TRW data which fail to record this forced long-term cooling might therefore underestimate variability on millennial timescales more generally, and potentially underestimate the warmth of past warm periods (e.g. medieval and Roman periods).

Orbital forcing is indeed substantial on the millennial timescale for high-latitudes during the summer season, and the theoretically expected cooling trend is seen in proxy reconstructions of Arctic summer temperature trends (Kaufman et al, 2009). But insolation forcing is near zero at tropical latitudes, and long-term cooling trends are not seen in non-tree ring, tropical terrestrial proxy records such as the Lake Tanganyika (tropical East Africa) (Tierney et al, 2010) (see below).

Long-term orbital forcing over the past 1-2 millennia is also minimal for annual, global or hemispheric insolation changes, and other natural forcings such as volcanic and solar radiative forcing have been shown to be adequate in explaining past long-term pre-industrial temperature trends in this case (e.g. Hegerl et al, 2007). Esper et al’s speculation that the potential bias they identify with high-latitude, summer-temperature TRW tree-ring data carry over to a bias in hemispheric temperature reconstructions based on multiple types of proxy records spanning tropics and extratropics, ocean and land, and which reflect a range of seasons, not just summer (e.g. Hegerl et al, 2006; Mann et al, 1999;2008) is therefore a stretch.

Indeed, there are a number of lines of evidence that contradict that more speculative claim. For example, if one eliminates tree-ring data entirely from the Mann et al (2008) “EIV” temperature reconstruction (see below; blue curve corresponds to the case where all tree-ring data have been withheld from the multiproxy network), one finds not only that the resulting reconstruction is broadly similar to that obtained with tree-ring data, but in fact the pre-industrial long-term cooling trend in hemispheric mean temperature is actually lessened when the tree-ring data are eliminated—precisely the opposite of what is predicted by the Esper et al hypothesis.

The wider hypothesis doesn’t get much support from looking at the pre-industrial millennial-scale temperature trends in published proxy reconstructions of Northern Hemisphere mean temperature, all of which indicate cooling of varying magnitudes. Ordered from smallest to largest cooling trend, we have:

Moberg et al (2006): -0.06 ºC/1000yr (0-1900)
Esper et al (2002): -0.11 ºC/1000yr (831-1900)
Hegerl et al (2007): -0.14 ºC/1000yr (558-1900, 30º-90ºN land, Chblend-dark)
Ljungqvist (2010): -0.18 ºC/1000yr (0-1900, 30º-90ºN)
Mann et al (1999): -0.19 ºC/1000yr (1000-1900)
Mann et al (2008): -0.23 ºC/1000yr (300-1900, nhcru_eiv_composite):

This can be loosely compared to the -0.31 ºC/1000yr estimate derived for N-Scan and trends of -0.10 and -0.19 ºC/1000yr at that latitude in summer seen in two model estimates discussed – though note that the model simulations will have smaller trends for the whole hemisphere and for the annual mean.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... elopments/


I have some reservations about paleoclimate methods - such as ice-cores and tree-ring reliability, to be honest. A lot of these may well serve as rather unrealiable "hooks" for AGW skeptics to latch onto. I advise sticking to basic facts that we know :- 1. The mainstream does not understand the sun, 2. The mainstream history of greenhouse-effect with respect to Venus is highly suspect, 3. Paleoclimatic data is open to question, and 4. Feedback mechanisms have yet to be empirically proven in reality.

sjw40364
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Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by sjw40364 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:50 pm

Has anyone tried correlating weather maps with magnetic maps?

Sparky
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Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by Sparky » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:14 pm

Steven, are you suggesting that Earth's local magnetic flux could be as Tumultuous as local weather systems? :?
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

kiwi
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:58 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by kiwi » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:16 pm

Great catch kiwi. I ran into this related link, and voted:

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/22/green-drivel

The "Nays: have it! By about 16:1. (Albeit when science is reduced to democratic processes, this will matter. Until then it's just entertaining to see the reversal of their false fortunes . . . ill-gotten gains?)
cheers Paul ....I read last night hail stones in New York yesterday? ... damn you Global Warming! :?

seasmith
Posts: 2815
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:59 pm

Re: Global Warming / Climategate

Post by seasmith » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:11 pm

more Carbon Tax planning exposed

Carbon Sinks hold Firm


The current state of land and ocean carbon sinks has been the subject of intense debate, because it has implications for how the carbon cycle might respond to climate change. About half of the current carbon dioxide emissions are taken up by land and ocean carbon sinks. Model studies predict a decline in future carbon sinks, resulting in a positive carbon-climate feedback, and several recent studies have suggested that land and ocean carbon sinks are beginning to wane [how convenient]. These authors use a global mass balance approach to audit the global carbon cycle, focusing on well-constrained observations of atmospheric carbon dioxide and estimates of anthropogenic emissions and a rigorous analysis of uncertainties. They find that carbon sinks have actually doubled during the past 50 years and continue to increase significantly. There were no signs, as of 2010, that carbon uptake has started to diminish on the global scale
[scare]
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... E-20120802

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