Everything That is Wrong With Modern Science

[GaryN]

Ancient sun symbols seemed to show a progression of changing patterns, an earlier one being a simple dot in the middle of a circle. Watching the videos of sand grains on a vibrating plate, you see the very same pattern at some point, as the frequency is slowly increased. If the sun is a voltage dependent oscillator, then after going dark, maybe the voltage slowly ramped back up, giving the changing appearance. Of course, the sun would have 3d and not 2d standing waves.

Steve Smith said:

Accept the irrationality of existence and embrace absurdity.

Douglas Adams couldn't have said it better.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi GaryN,
The Sun turning red was probably due to the Earth's atmosphere rather than an actual change to the Sun.
The sand grain thing is called cymatics and there is a thread about it somewhere around here.
Douglas Adams would have been joking.

[Steve Smith]

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To know that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
--- T.S. Elliot

The Book of Revelation (not Revelations) does not say the Sun became red, it's the Moon that became red. The Sun became black, like sackcloth made of goathair.

Since the New Covenant writings (a.k.a. the New Testament) are about the culmination of the promises made to Abraham and the gathering together of the 12 tribes, then the Apocalypse was most likely referring to the destruction and burning of the Great City, which took place in 70CE. It is an entirely parochial letter.

If anyone has ever seen a large fire, like a forest fire, the smoke obsures the Sun and in a pall of thick, black smoke. If the fires burn at night, the Moon turns red. The Romans utterly destroyed Jerusalem. They burned all the structures, then, after prying-up the paving stones from the streets, they plowed the land and salted the earth, so nothing would grow again. The Jerusalem you can see today is not the one that existed prior to 70CE.

Yes, I really think that human beings are a bunch of pansies these days and need some serious emotional adjustments. I don't know if the saying is still current, but "man up!" comes to mind. That applies metaphorically to women, too. It's time for all people to stop looking for "answers." There are no answers.

People are just desperate enough to concoct answers with no foundation in observational data -- I understand why that is, but it is not a reasonable recourse. Irrationality is de rigeur.

Accept your rock. Push it up the hill and spit in the face of the gods. There's really no alternative, unless you want to sit with your back against it and pine away.

No one wants to contemplate a universe that has no goal, purpose or meaning, because that is not a happy place. But it is the place in which we live. I plan to have fun doing what I do until I die. After that, the universe will cease to exist.

[philosopherp]

If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the foundation of all there lay
only a wildly seething power which writhing with obscure passions produced
everything that is great and everything that is insignificant, if a bottomless void never
satiated lay hidden beneath all – what then would life be but despair ? If such were the
case, if there were no sacred bond which united mankind, if one generation arose after
another like the leafage in the forest, if the one generation replaced the other like the
song of birds in the forest, if the human race passed through the world as the ship goes
through the sea, like the wind through the desert, a thoughtless and fruitless activity, if
an eternal oblivion were always lurking hungrily for its prey and there was no power
strong enough to wrest it from its maw – how empty then and comfortless life would
be !

[Steve Smith]

Leaning against the rock is the coward's way. Despair is the coward's road.

[Steve Smith]

Steve Smith said:
Accept the irrationality of existence and embrace absurdity.

Douglas Adams couldn't have said it better. :D

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
--- Douglas Adams

Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
--- Douglas Adams

[ColdCowboy]

Yes, I really think that human beings are a bunch of pansies these days and need some serious emotional adjustments. I don't know if the saying is still current, but "man up!" comes to mind. That applies metaphorically to women, too. It's time for all people to stop looking for "answers." There are no answers.

People are just desperate enough to concoct answers with no foundation in observational data -- I understand why that is, but it is not a reasonable recourse. Irrationality is de rigeur.

Accept your rock. Push it up the hill and spit in the face of the gods. There's really no alternative, unless you want to sit with your back against it and pine away.

No one wants to contemplate a universe that has no goal, purpose or meaning, because that is not a happy place. But it is the place in which we live. I plan to have fun doing what I do until I die. After that, the universe will cease to exist.

So I assume you like Mr. Bill Gaede, since you seem to share the guys heavily nihilistic disposition and his decidely forlorn prospects for the 'brotherhood of man'.

Anywayz, I can tell you that I have ventured in my own headspace into the hell that is the impossibility of reason, and having felt the tendrils of oblivion trying to pull my entire being into the 'black hole'. Precisely, I was caught in the gravity well of questions like...."Our lives are so short and the age of the world is vast, where is the meaning to life at all"...and "Everything that I have tried to take seriously, and drawn faith and comfort and security and reason from, is rendered utterly superflous by the infinite cycles of existence". Sh#t like that man, is like cyannide to your soul, and I had to put everything I had into resisting the assault of the evil chaos. Then I saw the light from the sun, and felt the warmth of the sun, and walked thru a farm field and laughed in sheer joy about overcoming the forces of chaos, I knew that mentally, I was very strong. Thats what they say, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Thats a truism, dude.

If you believe in the EU, then one must consider all the far-reaching consequences that such a model implys for our own existence, however small they may be. Today many people like to use phrases like 'intelligent design' to pidgeon-hole the discussion into a quasi religious argument, and I see this as a shrewd tactic in of the obfuscator and/or psychological manipulator. The point is very easy to understand once you release all the tainted slogans and sociopolitical hang-ups that cloud the reasoning of many people, this being, that there is 'order' at every level of nature from the micro molecular to the macro cosmological, and somehow we are supposed to believe as modern progressive academics that its all a big accident, that no higher dimensional force can be rationally implied by such overwhelming evidence. To purchase such a principle is giving up your humanity and your mind, you might as well be a programmed automaton, which is exactly what "THEY" want you to be.

Because we as humans are part of the universe, a consequence of the immutable order of the cosmos, that means that we ARE indeed here for a reason. That reason being........................to achieve everything possible within the parameters of our intelligence (hopefully good prevails, we don't like those evil geniuses!) To elaborate this point, I recall often hearing the mainstream 'standard model' cosmologists always talking about something called "ENTROPY" within a system, that says basically that order will succumb to chaos over time, until everything is just a mushy grey soup, etc. This concept, along with all of the Laws of Thermodynamics, don't jive with the EU at all, and furthermore, the ENTROPY view is the framework of bleak existentialist despair itself. This is psychological warfare.

I am going to make a couter-point to this derelict doctrine that has been so desperatly promulgated to us all in school to engender us with notions of a dying universe. Lets think about the OPPOSITE OF ENTROPY, the notion that elementary organization gives rise to more complex levels of organization, and that in time gives rise to even more complexity in the order of systems. As in, particle physics allowing for molecules to form, and those molecules allowed basic life, and today we humans are at the edge of the 'complexity curve' that has occured over time here on Earth. We are responsible for seeing that the complexity curve continues.

Funny enough, the mainstream sciencetists who promote ENTROPY have a word for what I just describe, its blandly 'NEGENTROPY'. HAHA, they are so scared of unleashing such a powerful concept as the natural progression of complex order in systems that they take the word ENTROPY and stick NEGative on front, to make the idea sound as bland and boring and insignificant as possible. This is a good example of how word games are used to control and limit peoples thoughts. Its a science that is ancient and fully understood by TPTB and their academic minions. I would prefer to use better and more profound words to describe such a grand phenomenom, like 'magnify, emergent, synergetic, concordant, amplify, geometric, harmonious, gestault, fractal, inherent, profusion, syncrony'. How about I create some brand new words to encapsulate the force that compels the cumulative results of nature, like, ummm............PROGENUITY, EMERGEOTIC, SYNCOHERENT, AUTOCOMPLICITY, INTRICOMBIOTIC, GENE-RATIO(N), REFLEXOGENIC, ORGANIFY, BENIGMATIC, CYCLICENDENCE.................... how do ya like that, go ahead and use 'em

The 'answers' are all around us in the natural world, and also within our minds to make interpretations, value judgements, and focused inquirys. Simply, if nature was a question, then we are the answer, because we are here. If we were to be the 'wrong answer' then we would not be here. But since we are, and being the highest expression of a complex system on this planet, that means it is our proper place of superiority over systems of leser magnitude, and it is our proper purpose to expand the complexity of our current system condition as well as create higher magnitudes of order that will supersede the limitations of inferior organization. Essentially, I am converging with the thoughts of Jacques Ellul on the effects of 'technique' that can only be satiated when it has become all-encompassing within the parameters of a system, and it then begins to form its own peculiar system structure that can only be descrided as an inherent aspect of nature. The problem is of course, where does freedom fit into such a universally structured system? Is our urge for freedom the expression of entropy in the universe, or does this drive effectively function to inject that critical component of expanding complexity that is needed to continue the evolution of the system towards higher order? I believe it is both of those things.

I hope you are intrigued........

[Grey Cloud]

Hi ColdCowboy,
Great post, one of the best I've read for some time.
People like Steve always argue from a position of ignorance. They assume that because they don't know, or don't have experience in a certain area, then nobody else does.

[Steve Smith]

The ignorance lies in equating pragmatism with nihilism.

The ignorance lies in equating your opinions with truth and other opinions with lack of knowledge.

"Reasons" are imaginary and exist only in the opinions of individuals. There are no absolutes and no "cosmic meaning." That's all just airy-fairy.

[Grey Cloud]

The ignorance lies in equating pragmatism with nihilism.

The accusation of nihilism stems from comments such as:

There are no answers.
Irrationality is de rigeur.
Accept your rock.
Let go of the need for truth and reason. Accept the irrationality of existence and embrace absurdity. There will never be answers to anything. The best we'll ever be able to do is find new questions to ask. Then we die.

The ignorance lies in equating your opinions with truth and other opinions with lack of knowledge.

Speaking for myself, my opinions are the result of a lot of reading and
a lot of thinking over a period of more than four decades. I also have a small amount of personal experience which fits in with much of what I have read, e.g. Greek philosophy, Laotzu, Vedic philosophy etc. You, Steve, are trying to prove a negative so you cannot have knowledge of something which you say doesn't exist. I am saying that you are ignorant of the fact that the thing does exist.

People are just desperate enough to concoct answers with no foundation in observational data --

So you have observed Mars, Venus and Saturn in line astern formation a la Talbott or Earth and Saturn doing an impression of a hot air balloon a la Cardona, have you?

[ColdCowboy]

Grey Could, I'm glad you enjoyed what I had to say. As for Steve-o, perhaps his position is not one of ignorance but one of denial, this is very symptomatic of an overdose on Existentialist philosophy. I find Existentialism to be worse than surreal, it is an academically argued case of insanity, and it has a dehumanizing effect on its victims.

So they say that there is no 'observational facts' or 'no absolutes'. Nature disproves both of these wrong-isms readily with the mathematical constructs of physical reality, sacred geometry, and (drumrolls) 2+2=4. Theres your absolute.

[bboyer]

and (drumrolls) 2+2=4. Theres your absolute.

Hey, not so fast with the absolutes. According to the Inca, I think it was, 2+2 obviously equaled 5.

(A 2-knot rope + a 2-knot rope = a 5-knot rope)

(Prob'ly what's fundamentally flawed with Alton's rope theory, not seeing beyond 2+2 - )

[ColdCowboy]

A rope of 5 knots, thats a good example of a gestault, the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

[Grey Cloud]

A rope of 5 knots, thats a good example of a gestault, the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

As it always is.

Winker

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Look into the eyeball

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[StefanR]

The problem is of course, where does freedom fit into such a universally structured system? Is our urge for freedom the expression of entropy in the universe, or does this drive effectively function to inject that critical component of expanding complexity that is needed to continue the evolution of the system towards higher order? I believe it is both of those things.

I hope you are intrigued........

Quite, that was a very nice post.
Reminds me of Boethius.