A SPIRITUAL ELECTRIC UNIVERSE?

[junglelord]

I used to be a born again Christian and believed in Black Holes. Now, not so much.
I believe that a "Conscious Field" is part of the fabric of the universe. You can call it God. I believe Yeshua was a Space Brother/Human - Hybrid, not the Son of God. I believe that Yeshua had contact and instruction from our space brothers. No offense to your beliefs, and welcome.

[moses]

I'm curious about what points of Biblical history and/or theology correspond to recorded plasma instabilities or planetary interactions. If Noah's global flood occurred in the last 10,000 years or so, did that mark the disruption of a planetary configuration and/or polar tree, mountain, or something else? Or were the gods banished when Israel was led out of Egypt? And was the original configuration designed by God as a picture of His rule and relationship to the Earth's people, yet corrupted by people -- who worshiped the created, not the Creator?
The EU opens up a great box of amazing new questions like this. Anyone else curious out there?
neal
Religion and the past are locked together. So when we consider
the past we often run into religious territory. But we try to
avoid religious discussion. Perhaps I can say that Noah's flood
is generally considered to be the break-up of the Saturn System.
You know I often compare the situation of the Earth in the
Saturn System with being pregnant. And if you believe planets
are sput out of bigger planets and stars, then you can imagine
Saturn giving birth to Earth which would go through incubation
and then birth(Noah's flood).

I'm an orthodox Christian. The revelation(s) I accept describe supernatural beings, including a creatoon and around Earth.r God, intersecting with our world in ways that we can sense, and sometime make sense of. The EU concept, with its understanding of infinite connections throughout all we can observe, suggests a lens through which to imagine direct spiritual communication with humans and very powerful action
neal
Are you suggesting that supernatural beings can take action here
on Earth ? Is this by causing action in humans or by changing
the environment ? And you see EU as providing a method that the
supernatural beings could use to produce action ? Personally I
would see it as a resonance effect, where finer vibrations can
induce coarser vibrations by resonance.
Mo

[SpaceTravellor]

@nealgetz and @moses,

Religion and the past are locked together. So when we consider
the past we often run into religious territory. But we try to
avoid religious discussion. Perhaps I can say that Noah's flood
is generally considered to be the break-up of the Saturn System.
You know I often compare the situation of the Earth in the
Saturn System with being pregnant. And if you believe planets
are sput out of bigger planets and stars, then you can imagine
Saturn giving birth to Earth which would go through incubation
and then birth(Noah's flood).

- The whole Immanuel Velikovsky hypothesis of Worlds in Collisions is based on the very literary interpretations of Myths and Biblical telling. Some Velikovsky followers have afterwards elaborated their own views of "this and that", but also their stories are still based on the very literary interpretations of myths and biblical stories.

Now, what if these mythological and biblical stories are not to be taken literary, counting just for earthly conditions in connection to the planets in our Solar System?

What, for instants, if the mythical telling of The Flood not deals with a concrete historical catastrophic flood, but deals with a mytho-cosmological telling in connection to the Story of Creation?

What would then such a telling do to the Velikovsky catastrophic theories and hypothesis and what would then the effect be on the works of the Velikovsky followers if also they are interpreting the archetypes, myths and biblical telling very literary?

[Orlando]

Funny how most settlers of the Human kind choose the valleys where flows of rivers into a larger body of water due to the soil and food availabilty, compound this with plasma machining on the earth connected to our solar system and we can paint a pretty good story that future generations seem to always adhere to the Flood story.

What if there existed a type of human settlorin the mountain ranges?
Would they have their own stories based on their living environment compressed into analogies in story format as this is the most efficient way to store and retrive complex educational material facts?

In any earth change these valleys will be flooded as this is the nature of flowing water into the lower lands.

Take a picture, write a small storyline about the meaning of the picture, and add a little spritualness ,ie./ a little joke or sarcasm or one that gains an emotional response in the listener.

Or maybe I'm just oversimplifying these ancient stories.

Peace
Or

[SpaceTravellor]

@Orlando,

You wrote:

Funny how most settlers of the Human kind choose the valleys where flows of rivers into a larger body of water due to the soil and food availabilty, compound this with plasma machining on the earth connected to our solar system and we can paint a pretty good story that future generations seem to always adhere to the Flood story.

- Maybe you really are simplifying these ancient Flood Myths?

One can read the myths literary for something excludingly on the Earth - or as mytho-cosmological telling of "as above - so below".

The cause that many ancient cultures are worshipping rivers/floods, origin in the Milky Way River Myths, the Heavenly Sea or Heavenly Waters. From the Bible, we all know the story of Noah with all the animals on board = The great Heavenly Ship with all the zodiacal animals/constellation signs.

Some links to Flood Myths:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html
http://library.thinkquest.org/C005854/t ... orld_f.htm
http://www.allsands.com/religious/floodmyths_twr_gn.htm

For more Milky Way Mytho-Cosmology, see http://www.native-science.net

[janhollander2009]

What does spirituality actually mean?

There are some (very) old ideas about it, which al do point at the incompleteness of our universe. At least the universe as we experience it. Our universe is, according to these views, as a system incorporated in a larger system hence we can not prove the existence of this greater universe. We can only suspect it exists if we experience something we can not explain nor experiment with. Since we can not experiment with it, it can never be scientific. The only thing that is left is to believe there is such a greater universe. The real deal now is the assumption (and it can be no more than an assumption) that part of us (and this is not our mortal biological part) is of this greater universe. Spiritual development is getting awareness of this part and develop it. Of course the “spiritual part” of al the other visible entities like planets, plants, or any other dynamical system, have to play some role in a spiritual development, or maybe become things with a different meaning.

For me the simple reason that it is impossible to prove that something does not exist (anywhere) gives no logical ground to be an atheist. If we take the viewpoint that something only is real, if we have scientific prove of its existence then a human being is no more than a biological, chemical, electrical, mechanical machine. Of course the latter viewpoint is also some form of believe, in the sense that al spirituality is just bogus.

My opinion is that the official big bang idea is unscientific since lots of data so not agree with it. The plasma theory gives a better explanation for the cosmological structures, scares of planets and behavior of the sun and comets and so on. But attributing everything, also the apparently unscientific spirituality to plasma manifestations is to narrow. That they somehow are connected is fine for me, but to accept it as a cause is always, logically, unsatisfactory and narrow.

[SpaceTravellor]

Hello janhollander2009,

As the initiator of this topic, I must give you a little warning:
Don’t get too spiritual in your approach on this topic – you risk a removal of your replies.

This happened to me with this my earlier reply on this actual topic:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... =10&t=2217 – I still don’t know why this reply should be removed to the "New Insights and Mad Ideas" - underground department . . .
You wrote:

There are some (very) old ideas about it, which al do point at the incompleteness of our universe

- I f you are referring to the knowledge of Ancient Mythology etc., it is my point of view that this general knowledge was talking of: That "everything is completely connected" and that we humans are a completely integrated part of it all.

We can only suspect it exists if we experience something we can not explain nor experiment with. Since we can not experiment with it, it can never be scientific.

- The ancient people did not suspect anything. Regarding the macrocosmic dimensions, they got the knowledge via direct and intuitive meeting with the different creative forces, especially via their Shamanic travelling.

This kind of ancient and genuine educational system is for the time being outdated by the modern "measuring and calculation system" that states "Big Bang" theories and other scientifical madness that really cannot live up to the best of the Mythological telling when interpreted and understood as Mytho-Cosmological knowledge.

The real deal now is the assumption (and it can be no more than an assumption) that part of us (and this is not our mortal biological part) is of this greater universe.

Even the mortal biological part/sum of us always will be a part of this greater universe - just dissolved and transformed and later on goes in to another circle of life - don’t you think so?

[colesakick@yahoo.com]

Getting back to the questions that started this thread, I’d like to speak to what is known and connect that back to the original questions.

It has been experimentally demonstrated that particles once entangled will remain “aware” of one another’s states at infinite distances after separation. How does this happen? Theoretically (L. Susskind’s) the universe is holographic in nature meaning that the information contained within it is ubiquitous and instantaneously distributed throughout.

A hologram such as those one can make with the right equipment captures information about an object onto film. This is done by aiming a laser beam at an object; let’s say a chess piece on the game board and that beam is interfered with that beam with by yet another laser beam and a photo is snapped. The end photo can then be torn into many pieces and each piece will contain the full details of the original whole image (though the quality does fall off the more you subdivide the image). What this demonstrates is what we already know using fiber optics; waveforms contain and transmit information, in this case photonic/solotonic waveforms.

The universe is comprised of things in motion; there is no absolute rest state in nature. At some point/level something in any given entity or system is in motion even if only at the quantum scale. That being the case space carries the ripples of all the things that exist in the universe. As one wave encounters/intersects with another (what we’d call interference only because we have yet to set out to decode the intersecting information that is garbling our own) the information in each is combined instantly. Theoretically we could decode light waves reaching our instruments to obtain discrete information from far flung galaxies.

What all this has to do with this topic on metaphysics is this. Information is universal, your thoughts create waves that join the universal information highway. That this is true means that there exists a credible framework for studying metaphysical phenomena such as spiritual experiences. If we derive consciousness, as many quantum physicists believe, by accessing a universal consciousness via the microtubules in our brains and consciousness too is ubiquitous, instantaneous and always self-aware some interesting concepts leap to fore. If there is a Creator that knows our thoughts the instant we ourselves become aware of them; on what scientific basis could one refute that? Nature clearly allows for this kind of universality. All cultures that believe in a spiritual realm seem to share this kind of notion about shared consciousness with a Great or greater/lesser spirit(s).

[colesakick@yahoo.com]

I’d like to introduce the living element into this discussion as well. Few have heard of the remarkable discoveries by Wave Genetics Inc. and the Russian Academy of Sciences working in conjunction with the British Computing Society (who work towards quantum computing with an aim on developing cybernetic devices). In studying DNA this team discovered several very interesting things.

DNA is known to be an information encoder and decoder. What this team discovered is that the genome is able to essentially ping its local and exterior environments using photonic and sound waves to gather information. They postulate that life forms gather this information at the genetic level to make intelligent, deliberate adaptive decisions to make changes for survival. The selected change can be to develop a new enzyme to digest what is fast becoming the most abundant food supply in an area where the normal food stuffs are being depleted or to develop alterations in tissues that can handle new stressors in the environment. In other words they believe they have proven that evolution is deliberate and intentional and takes place via forethought and intelligent planning (white paper title DNA-Wave Biocomputer).

Intelligence and information have an association in that it takes something coherently intelligent to encode information that makes sense to someone/thing else and that is useful when decoded. That the genetic code is a code that means things and makes things happen presents some difficult challenges for those who believe that the universe and evolution are random states that sometimes lead to non-random systems. An additional problem for that side of the isle is that the universe is the same at all scales, quantum and upwards, this is decidedly a non-random universe (search terms: fractals in nature, phi, pi, golden ratio, golden mean, etc…).

The team mentioned earlier has worked their discoveries forward such that they have successfully recorded the sound and light waves of isolated stem cells of the pancreases of a species of mice then deliberately killed the pancreas of living mice of that same species until point of near death and then healed their pancreases using the sound waves recorded earlier. The implications of this work are staggering in terms of health care and warfare but that is for another forum. What is meaningful here is that they have substantiated their earlier claim that the genome communicates with other genes locally and with other organs inside the body and gathers information from same as well as the world outside using sound and light waves.

http://eng.wavegenetic.ru/index.php?opt ... 2&Itemid=1

More on the genetic code itself next

[colesakick@yahoo.com]

The genetic code has been found to conform to the same statistical analysis as human languages do in that it has letters, words, sentences, paragraphs, syntax, grammar; even the frequency at which common letters and words appear are also similar. Some speculate that human language took its form from the genome. Even further it has been speculated that conscious thought takes place at the genetic level and is transmitted to the brain next. This would seem to explain how we could react to a painful stimulus before we are even mentally aware of the potential injury we faced. (Lipton & Sheldrake).

Liken the above line of reasoning to groupthink or universal mind as in how a colony of ants or school of fish are able to function as a unit. These authors believe that perhaps our genes are aware of one another and the world outside and that they report only that information to the brain that should concern it. The trillions of actions happening in our bodies need not concern us and consequently are not reported to the conscious brain. Our genes however have an awareness of all that is going on and can react as necessary to optimize things for survival. From the work of Wave Genetics Inc and associates I mentioned in the prior post; the beliefs of Lipton and Sheldrake find some solid scientific support.

At the heart of the debate between the Intelligent Design camp and evolutionists is whether or not the genome could have come from stochastic events without intention or purpose. The debate has been an exercise in futility owing to little more to debate than a priori arguments on either side; that is until recently. A new area of study; Bio-Informatics has broken new ground that is forcing the camp that favors stochastically derived life (as evidenced by junk DNA) to allow descent in mainstream publications. Read the following example:
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/16/3/347.abstract

The length of the conserved intronic DNA in a gene is correlated with the number of functional domains in the protein encoded by that gene. These results suggest that the greater length of introns in tissue-specific genes is not due to selection for economy or mutation bias but instead is related to functional complexity (probably mediated by chromatin condensation), and that the evolution of the bulk of noncoding DNA is not completely neutral.

What the above paragraph is saying; without coming right out and saying it, is that the introns in the genome are not “junk” as has been published over and over in the mainstream as evidence in favor of stochastic evolution, they are apparently programs that tell tissues how to behave after they have been built (think computer and software). Note how the author of the above quote softened his or her point by ending the sentence with “is not completely neutral.” To have said otherwise would have ensured that paper never saw the light of day.

Information is never random, it is ordered, has meaning and requires intelligence. If you gather symbols together in a random order they lack any global meaning (at random a few letters in alphabet soup form a word but never a sentence or novel) and do not cause anything to happen next. Gather those same symbols in an intelligent order then information is created that can be communicated and acted upon.

Spirituality presupposes that we were created by and can consciously connect with an intelligent entity or entities. It would seem essential then to answer whether or not the universe has the appearance of intelligent design. The answer appears to be yes; even to evolutionists like Darwin (though he and they deny that the appearance of design is evidence of design).

From the substrate of the quantum foam to the highest order of existance, information and information systems bespeak the pre-existance of that which seeded this universe with information and the varied systems for storing, encoding and decoding it. Information, order, design, consciousness all lead in the direction of an ultimate intelligence. Whether by fiat or by setting in motion an angular, electrical dynamical system that oders itself according to self consistant rules; this ordered complexity could not arise from nothing without cause or intention (at least no means for such has yet been discovered). The Golden Ratio and other such patterns in nature seem good evidence that there is a good case to be made for a pre-existant One or Ones who disigned all of this, thus spirituality would seem to have at least some scientific or at least some rational basis in its favor.