Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

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ttsoares
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Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by ttsoares » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:57 pm

Greetings all. My first topic here in this forum:

Following the suggestion at spaceweathernews.com i subscribed to the channel "Sky Scholar" at Youtube. There Dr. P.M. Robitaille exposes the flaws in the standard model of the Sun and offers a new way to understand stars using some arrangements of the hydrogen atom, like the "metallic" one. As the main stream model is a hip of BS... it is easy to get to like any other that offer plausible explanations.

But after some month and several videos i came to realize that his (PMR) explanation for the source of energy of the Sun is - nuclear fusion !!
So there is no concordance between PMR model and the EU. OK. Now i see.

My questions are:
1) That theory about metallic hydrogen in the PMR model could be of some usefulness for the EU ?
2) He (PMR) demonstrated that the Kirschoff law of black body radiation emission is not valid. What impact this has to the EU model as a whole ?

Thank you.

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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:43 pm

ttsoares wrote:source of energy of the Sun is - nuclear fusion

That is also true in most EU models.
Except for the ancient ones: After the burning gas model, the first electric model appeared.
That was many years before nuclear fission/fusion, so they did not know at the time where
the energy came from.
Some models add electric galactic currents to the energy of the sun, but I
don't think that anyone these are actually seen as a major energy source.
1) That theory about metallic hydrogen in the PMR model could be of some usefulness for the EU ?
The metallic hydrogen is a state of hydrogen that still needs more research, but I certainly
think that it is useful.

The problem with the models of the sun is that the sun is a electrically dynamic environment.
The elements may work a bit differently due to that.
Maybe it makes hydrogen metallic indeed, or maybe it appears so due to electric fields or currents.
2) He (PMR) demonstrated that the Kirchhoff's law of black body radiation emission is not valid. What impact this has to the EU model as a whole ?
It invalidates most of the mainstream astronomy models, because almost every
cosmological temperature is related to that.
The Sun, Stars, CBR, etc.

Robitaille proofs that the black body radiation is a fallacy,
because it only applies to graphite/metallic like matter.
In his videos he explains very well how many astronomy models a wrong,
and that the astronomers are not using proper physics.

In the EU light can be caused by electric currents or other activity. This means that
the EU already did away with the black body radiation.
Electricity can produce everything from radio to x-rays, so there is a lot of freedom there.
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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by ttsoares » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:30 pm

Thank you for your replay !!

Just to get absolutely straight, though:

The best EU model, according Wall T., is the one where all starts receive all its energy from outside, via galactic Birkeland currents.

Correct ?

Also, Dr. Robitaille in one of his videos offers a very good argument defending the idea that the corona is not millions of degrees hot. It would be useful to be able refute that argument...

Lastly, the fall, so to speak, of the Kirchof's law of Black Body also means that all about Plank is in jeopardy. Right ? Including all Quantum Mechanics !

Best regards
Thomas.

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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:45 pm

ttsoares wrote: The best EU model, according Wall T., is the one where all starts receive all its energy from outside, via galactic Birkeland currents.

Correct ?
Not as far I know.
The EU accepts fusion going on, producing the sun's energy.
The model is that the galactic birkeland currents have started the sun's fusion process,
and may be a means of control.
There are also some ideas about recent strong galactic birkeland currents that might
have affected other planets.
Also, Dr. Robitaille in one of his videos offers a very good argument defending the idea that the corona is not millions of degrees hot. It would be useful to be able refute that argument...
Why?
It is even useful for the mainstream to refute it, because it leads to all kinds of wrong physics.
Lastly, the fall, so to speak, of the Kirchof's law of Black Body also means that all about Plank is in jeopardy. Right ? Including all Quantum Mechanics !
Not really.
This assumption is often made, but I have never seen Kirchof's black body being used in
quantum mechanics. The black body is just an oversimplification.
This oversimplification is used as an introduction to QM in some schools.
In QM we use wave-functions that represent the energy of the particles, and these
energy states lead to different possible outcomes.
I think that, in a black body, all the energy-states are the same.
This is not a common case in QM.
The funny thing is that in water the energy-states are also the same
over a wide range. But on a much lower energy-levels. And this
is the reason why it is a bit similar to a shifted black-body spectrum.
And Robitaille shows in his work that a lot of the CBR is actually radiation coming
from water. Except on the plank satellite, which in raw data does not show
any cosmic black body at all.

While I think that Robitaille's work does not conflict directly with the EU,
I do think that the main promoters of the EU can learn from it.
He also has a thorough scientific approach.
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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by ttsoares » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:25 pm

ttsoares wrote: The best EU model, according Wall T., is the one where all starts receive all its energy from outside, via galactic Birkeland currents.

Correct ?
Zyxzevn wrote: Not as far I know.
The EU accepts fusion going on, producing the sun's energy.
The model is that the galactic birkeland currents have started the sun's fusion process,
and may be a means of control.
There are also some ideas about recent strong galactic birkeland currents that might
have affected other planets.
Man... Now i am really lost here !

I have in my cellphone a lot of MP3 files that are extracted audio from lectures of W. Thornhill on Youtube and also from videos of the EU conferences. I have been listening those files over and over, every day, to sleep, while commuting, waiting in line, etc... And from those it is clear that the energy source of starts drops from outside exclusively. I could post here fragments of Thornhill audio saying that the core of all starts is "cold" as it is an anode for the discharge of the Birkeland currents, etc...

So my question is: This forum here is in sync with what says Thornhill or i have been listening recordings of him that are outdated and even he now a days accepts this model of "fusion" in the core of stars?

Additionally, even though i am just a metallurgical engineer, following this debate:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_Ki ... n_now_dead

i was able to found this:

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... iversality

My feeling is that, like use to say Thornhill:

"Science made a wrong turn about 1920 and until today we have been in a dead end..."

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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:06 am

ttsoares wrote:.. fragments of Thornhill audio saying that the core of all starts is "cold" as it is an anode for the discharge of the Birkeland currents, etc...
The fusion is on (or near) the outside of the star.
Not in its centre.

I think this is also what Robitaille is stating.
The model of fusion in the centre is combined with many weird unlikely physics.
Robitaille shows that it breaks with basic thermodynamics.
He then explains how the surface of the sun, which is not even accepted in mainstream,
could help us solve the problem.
He also shows that the radiation-bands of the elements show different pressure
and different temperatures than mainstream claims.
This forum here is in sync with ..Thornhill ..
We all have different ideas.
If you post a question in the first part of the forum (electric universe), you will get lots of answers.

But I do think that Thornhill supports fusion near the surface of the sun.
A part of this theory is put into practice in focus-fusion.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhKB-VxJWpg&t

The idea is that a sustained current can create the circumstances for fusion.
Additionally, even though i am just a metallurgical engineer, following this debate:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_Ki ... n_now_dead

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... iversality
I would have to look into the links of the sites that, to know what they talk about now.
But my general experience is that many scientists use logical fallacies and prejudice
to divert the actual discussion and to blame the messenger.
This makes me like to avoid the mainstream discussions.
My feeling is that, like use to say Thornhill:

"Science made a wrong turn about 1920 and until today we have been in a dead end..."
I agree with that statement.

It seems to me that all science that is has no 99% laboratory verification has diverged
towards false theories.
But they can't see that, because the maths has become too complex.
I know some maths, and each time I delve deep into it, I see clear errors,
oversimplifications, and/or false assumptions.
Magnetic reconnection is one of the clearest false theories, with 10^6 order of error.

I think the criticism of the EU on the mainstream is usually valid.
But sometimes the EU community try to use electromagnetism in everything,
but that does not always work.
For example I disagree with the dipole-gravity model of Thornhill,
but I do think that electromagnetism might have influenced
the orbits of planets and such.
For example: The rings of Saturn are likely to be caused by
electric fields that keeps the dust apart. Possibly it gets charged by the solar wind.
But they also orbit around Saturn due to gravity. We can have both.
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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by ttsoares » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:44 am

OK, it is better now my grasp of all this... Thank you !

But :

Yes, Robitaille wrote in a comment of one of his videos that the core of the Sun is the source of energy via fusion. After this i unsubscribe that channel.

Now, all those Robitaille lectures seems to be just to redefine the conventional model of the Sun via anomalous behaviours of hydrogen. Anyhow, it is easy to kick a dead dog, so to speak, as it is the standard model...

About the Kirchof/Plack context i am inclined to conclude that QM depends of the universality of Kirchof's law and from this all QM is just a "recipe that works but do not explains anything" as says Thornhill.

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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by ttsoares » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:25 am

Just one person here offered comments !

Even though more then 200 views happened...

Is this forum dead ?

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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by The Great Dog » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:08 pm

The Electric Universe model doesn't see any nuclear fusion in the sun, but on its "surface". The sun receives its power from Birkeland currents, as Wal Thornhill and others suggest. A good place to start understanding how those theories work is to read the Pictures of the Day. There are thousands of articles in the archives.

When I was introduced to the Electric Universe back in 2009, I read all of the posts in the archives. That was before the videos were available, so it was the best place to start. You can absorb more information by reading than by listening, anyway. There are now more than 3000 papers there.

It's obvious that you aren't getting many responses because most of the members can't respond. The answers about fusion are a case-in-point -- it takes a long time to understand plasma dynamics and how plasma responds to electromagnetism. The sun isn't a fusion reactor. Here are a few of the articles I found helpful:

https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2015/0 ... etic-fire/

https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2017/1 ... fibrils-2/

https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2017/0 ... to-deluge/

Also, Wal Thornhill's site contains some information that you might find informative.

http://www.holoscience.com/wp/electric-sun-verified/

http://www.holoscience.com/wp/our-misunderstood-sun/

If you want to subscribe to a site that offers out-of-print and rare documents about plasma and plasma physics, go here:

http://www.catastrophism.com/intro/index.php

In the opinion of the Great Dog, Dr. Robitaille doesn't understand plasma, so he doesn't accept an electrical explanation for solar activity.

TGD
There are no other dogs but The Great Dog

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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by ttsoares » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:57 pm

OK TGD... Thank you so very much.

The Robitaille question about the Sun is solved for me now...

But remains the point he made about the invalidity of the Black Body Radiation of Kirschoff's "law".

What are the potential implications of that to the EU model ?

In other words: The EU depends of the Kirschoff's law of BBR ?

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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by webolife » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:13 pm

I agree that Robitaille is mostly redefining a nuclear fusion model for the sun.

Over the past few decades I have come to an approach to scientific literature that works something like this:
1. Dismiss all statements are not scientifically tentative. That throws out a large fraction of science articles.
2. Dismiss all ad hominems. That throws out another big fraction of responses to science articles.
3. Dismiss any argument against premises as a set of beliefs, a faith base or system. Without exception, scientific conclusions follow from the premises upon which they were based.
4. Look for the premises before accepting any conclusions. Perfect logic, good data and valid scientific thinking result in diverse conclusions due to the nature of the initial premises; so comprehending those assumptions allows us to follow the scientific argument to discover how valid the scientist's thinking is.
5. Assuming the thinking is found to be valid and the premises are fairly disclosed, there are nuggets of truth found in the diversity of models being presented. Mine for those nuggets.
6. There is only one reality, so the nuggets of truth fit together in solving the greater puzzle. This will eventually lead to a unification of science.
7. Question any claim that is made based on its counterclaim being incorrect. There are usually more than just two options for understanding the available research.

Using on this approach, I have come to an perspective about nuclear fusion that looks something like this:
[All] bodies are observed to be in a fundamental state of collapse, which we sometimes refer to as entropy. The atom is no different so it makes sense that we find gravitation as a universal phenomenon of pressure/motion toward the system centroid, and nuclear fusion energy as a process toward a neutral and stable state in nature holding the atom together. Electricity is a manifestation of this same stabilization as electrical potential fields move charge toward the system centroid, ie. toward "ground". On the other hand, primal energy in the universe operates in opposition to -- or hand-in-hand with, (depending on your perspective) -- this "big squeeze", placing all objects into "orbital" patterns about other more massive objects, from the atom level to the astronomic level. Attempts to recreate fusion in the lab with laser arrays have probably always been doomed to fail since the direction of pressure for a laser is toward the laser, not away from it. Whether fusion is near the surface of a star or near its center [I'm inclined to accept the latter], the active forces for fusion must be seen as being generated by the "big squeeze". Addressing that pressure in strictly gravitational terms, or strictly electrical terms, is at best found wanting because the fundamental unification of these two systems is not being addressed.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:52 pm

ttsoares wrote:The EU depends of the Kirschoff's law of BBR ?
The EU debunks the Kirchoff's black body law in a different way.
The EU sees the radiation as a product of moving electrons.
So a black body spectrum is not applicable,

Just like LEDs can emit blue light while staying cold.

The whole black body thing is a false idea to begin with,
because it is an oversimplification of reality.
And if we really look at it, we can confirm Robitaille's conclusion
that the black body spectrum is only applicable in special cases.
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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by D_Archer » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:30 am

ttsoares wrote:My questions are:
1) That theory about metallic hydrogen in the PMR model could be of some usefulness for the EU ?
2) He (PMR) demonstrated that the Kirschoff law of black body radiation emission is not valid. What impact this has to the EU model as a whole ?

Thank you.
Hi and welcome,

1) not really.
2) none, but it is disastrous for mainstream models.
The best EU model, according Wall T., is the one where all starts receive all its energy from outside, via galactic Birkeland currents. Correct ?
That is not the EU model. The solar discharge is 'maintained' by electric currents coming from the larger galactic environment. The energy of the sun is actually already in the Sun, this happens when stars are born in Z-Pinches when galactic current ionizes the matter that is drawn in, plasma matter of stars is energy dense matter. I do think EU misses a component, that stars are actually dissipative systems, they lose heat and matter over time.
Lastly, the fall, so to speak, of the Kirchof's law of Black Body also means that all about Plank is in jeopardy. Right ? Including all Quantum Mechanics !
Not in jeopardy, it is now proven mostly nonsense.
So my question is: This forum here is in sync with what says Thornhill or i have been listening recordings of him that are outdated and even he now a days accepts this model of "fusion" in the core of stars?
People on this forum think what they think, we do not preach Wal's word as gospel, EU is about finding the truth or the best answer, model, by sticking to observation, data and experiment as best we humans can. Wal has no fusion in the core of stars, but does accept there can be fusion at/on/near the surface of the sun where most of the electrical activity takes place.
ust one person here offered comments !

Even though more then 200 views happened...

Is this forum dead ?
It is better to have 2 posters doing a back and forth and then read along, otherwise you get more jumbled threads.

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -

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Re: Dr. Robitaille rescuing nuclear fusion

Unread post by ttsoares » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:17 pm

OK. Very nice !!

Thank your kindness to my newbeiness...

And, as my English skill are very limited, sometimes i need to read the same content written in more than one form to be able to grasp the idea.

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