Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

[viscount aero]

...now my point is this sounds us that EARTH ITSELF IS A SINGLE GIANT LIVING ORGANISM and producing organic hydrocarbons in the deep origins without any involvement of organic matter from the surface of earth...

I actually agree with you.

[tertiusw]

Anyone out there that knows what the purpose of oil is in the bigger scheme of planetery things? Was oil formed so that we humans can make plastic bags and make fuel to drive cars? Or make synthetic materials e.g. nylon?

Or does it serve a greater geological & biological purpose? It's a very good lubricant so maybe it ensures that the continental plates don't bang to hard against each other thereby lowering possibility / intensity of earthquakes? Or maybe it has some special electrical quality which enables this planet to support life? And so we can ask what is the purpose for all minerals e.g. gold i.. Is it there as a resource made exclusively for human consumption by a friendly creator or is it one of the special components on planet earth to support life as we know it? Maybe not directly like soil, oxygen gas, CO2 gas, liquid water and sunlight but as a structural support for life supporting resources?

If we know the answer to this maybe we will be more careful of how we use it? It really doesn't matter that much how it is formed. Even if the rate of production is higher than we think due to a abiotic process of production rather than a much slower biotic one, if we exceed the rate of production, the extraction could cause immense problems.

All mining of minerals, which oil drilling in essence is too, has negative effects which needs to be mitigated or minimized as not to damage and pollute our life-supporting environment. So even if we produce solar panels or wind turbines, we need to manufacture them and either grow or mine the materials needed for manufacture. Of course, if the primary source of energy is currently produced energy like sun or wind and not stored energy like hydrocarbons, the impact on the environment is only caused by energy production system, not the use of the fuel itself e.g. burning hydrocarbons. So much less non-renewable resources is used in producing the same energy, thereby minimizing possible pollution and other environmentally destructive effects of energy production for supporting human activities.

So does anyone know what the geological and biological purpose of oil is?

[Chromium6]

Gulf of Mexico is Back, and Subsalt is all the Rage

In late March, the US Department of Interior released the results of its Central Gulf of Mexico lease sale 227. It was a great auction, with a LOT of interest—52 companies, 407 bids and 320 tracts up for offer--and heavy bidding competition. This is only a fraction of the blocks up for grabs (4.5%), so there’s a lot more to come.This is the rebound from the 2010 oil spill, which saw a major slump in bidding. This time around, minimum bids for deep-water acres were around $100 per acre, compared to 2012 when the minimum per acre was only about $37. Then, companies bought acreage, but failed to do anything with it. Now, with the minimum bid raised, and more time allowed on the lease if operators drill wells, there should be more activity.  (In November 2012, when the DOI offered over 20 million acres in the western Gulf, it generated only $233 million in bids on 3% of the land offered.) These sub-salt plays were temporarily sidelined by the shale revolution onshore, but now what we are about to see—in part spurred by sub-salt and pre-salt success in Brazil--is the true development of sub-salt plays in the Gulf of Mexico. Analysts believe we could see $70 billion spent on exploration here by 2030, making it THE most active deep-water play in the world—more active than all of them combined.  The details of the lease sale are telling, especially in terms of the number of bids for deep and shallow-water acreage.  There were 131 bids for acreage in depths of 1,600 meters or deeper, and 85 bids for acreages at depths of 200 meters or less. This unexpected interest in the shallow depths is indicative of a potential revival of this Gulf of Mexico area that had largely been abandoned.Let’s recall the Gulf of Mexico potential here:

•    11.5 trillion cubic feet of proven gas resources
•    1.4 billion barrels of proven crude reserves
•    New fields coming online
•    New discoveries announced at an impressive pace
•    Resumption of lease sales
•    Deep-water development picking up
•    Chevron has set a fast pace for developing its Gulf of Mexico plays: Jack/St. Malo, Big Foot and Tubular Bells fields, with production expected to start in 2014 and total estimates of 500 million bbls of potentially recoverable oil
•    Deep-water drilling focus on the Miocene and Lower Tertiary structures
•    Lower Tertiary play sits beneath a thick wedge of salt that is about 70 miles wide and 200 miles long and could contain about 31 billion bbls of oil and 134 trillion cubic feet of gas undiscovered, and technically recoverable
•    Total recently made a significant discovery at its North Platte prospect in the Garden Banks block, estimating several hundred million barrels of oil

Majors aside, this is who we like in the Gulf of Mexico “revival”:…..

[sureshbansal342]

Hi,

In past geological time due to geological activity of the earth, Hydrocarbons that has been produced in the deep origin of earth without any involvement
of organic matter from the surface has been seeped up on the surface of the earth . Light hydrocarbon has been evoprated and heavy hydrocarbons has been
reburied after mixing with the organic matter from the surface of the earth.there was huge hydrocarbon lakes,rivers ,oceans and hydrocarbon rich showers
on the surface of the earth ,like hydrocarbon lakes and rivers on Titan.
http://www.universetoday.com/12800/tita ... han-earth/

yes, I fully agreed with the geochemical analysis and prseence of oil near sediments.I also agreed that oil has been expelled from source rock and trap
to the reservior but source rock is a mixture of mud+deceased organic matter + pre generated seepage abiotic hydrocarbons and thsee organic matter has
nothing to prdouce the oil and just has been mixed with these pre generated abiotic hydrocarbons only. sediments that has been formed without any
involvement of pre generated hydrocarbons are DRY HOLES and we are getting nothing near there. so current fossil oil theory as it is not correct .
Even current fossil oil theory can never be correct as it has zero respect for the work of followers of abiotic theory. yes i agreed current abiotic
theory as it is also can never be correct if it has no respect for the strong geochemical analysis and strong well tseted past experiance of presence
of oil near sediments.My hypothesis is between the both and has respect for all valid scientific evidenecs and can help to find more oil for future.
We need many evidences to prove any theory but single evidence against is sufficient to disprove it but there are tons of evidences against current
fossil oil theory. http://www.google.co.in/#hl=en&gs_rn=11 ... 0d9vLpCL7L . please observe the abiogenic
origin of petroleum.





regs
suresh
sureshbansal342@gmail.com

[GaryN]

They are not sure of the source, but speculate a chemical reaction with rock.

Natural hydrogen: a new addition to the energy mix?

IFP Energies nouvelles (IFPEN) has become one of the first global research centers to actively investigate onshore natural hydrogen (H2) emissions after the discovery of offshore sources in the 1970s. Initial exploratory works have already shown that continuous onshore natural H2 emissions occur frequently. Now IFPEN is launching a new research project investigating the viability of industrial exploitation.

http://www.ifpenergiesnouvelles.com/act ... el-a-terre

[shadowmane]

Besides, if we run out of oil, what will we make lunch and grocery bags from? Oh, of course, wood fiber!

Carbon.

[Chromium6]

Some coverage on FT and related conversion technologies.

---------

http://www.velocys.com/press/wp/wp11020 ... 130115.pdf

Velocys

Velocys is part of Oxford Catalysts Group PLC, the leading technology innovator for clean synthetic fuel production.

Our two operating subsidiaries, Velocys, Inc. and Oxford Catalysts Ltd, together design, develop and commercialize technology for the production of synthetic oil from waste gas (which would otherwise be flared or reinjected), stranded gas, renewable sources such as waste biomass, as well as coal via Fischer-Tropsch (FT) synthesis, a market that has the potential of producing as much as 25 million barrels of fuel a day.

Oxford Catalysts Group PLC is listed on the AIM market of the London Stock Exchange (LSE: OCG). The Group has some 80 employees with facilities near Columbus, Ohio, USA. and Oxford, UK. Our microchannel process technology with high-activity catalysts are together marketed under the brand name of Velocys.

Microchannel Reactors
Microchannel reactor
Microchannel FT reactor core
Microchannel reactor
3-core FT reactor

Microchannel reactors are compact reactors that have channels with diameters in the millimetre range. These small channels dissipate heat more quickly than conventional reactors with larger channel diameters in the 2.5 – 10 cm (1 – 4 inch) range, so more active catalysts can be used, such as those developed by Oxford Catalysts. Mass and heat transfer limitations reduce the efficiency of the large conventional reactors used for Fischer-Tropsch and Steam Methane Reforming reactions and hydroprocessing. The use of microchannel processing makes it possible to greatly intensify chemical reactions enabling them to occur at rates 10 to 1000 times faster than in conventional systems.

Microchannel Fischer-Tropsch reactors, developed by Velocys and using a new highly active FT catalyst developed by Oxford Catalysts, are now available for the small scale distributed production of fuels. These reactors exhibit conversion efficiencies in the range of 70% per pass, and are designed for economical production on a small scale. The FT process using microchannel reactors operates economically at 1,000 bpd (or more). In contrast, conventional FT plants are designed to work at minimum capacities of 5,000 bpd, and function well and economically at capacities of 30,000 bpd or higher. They typically exhibit conversion efficiencies in the range of 50% or less per pass. Microchannels have a smaller footprint, can be scaled up or down more flexibly as they can be 'numbered up', and have efficiencies superior to those achievable using conventional process technology.

Microchannel reactors therefore have the potential to unlock the distributed production of fuels and other materials on a small, decentralized scale.

------------
(Perhaps Bromide in seawater is a key component in abiotic synthesis?)



http://www.grt-inc.com/go/technology/grt-technology/

To maximize the opportunity that natural gas and biomethane represent, GRT has developed a fundamentally simpler and more direct GTL technology, well suited to a wide range of natural gas field sizes and potential biomethane sources.

The GRT Technology offers a direct approach to natural gas conversion that eliminates the need to make synthesis gas.

The GRT technology consists of the following three steps:

Activation: Natural gas or biomethane is “activated” by reaction with bromine (Br2) under relatively mild conditions to form methyl bromide and hydrogen bromide (HBr). Whereas methane is quite stable, methyl bromide is a highly active intermediate that can be readily transformed into an array of products.
Conversion: Methyl bromide produced in Step 1 is reacted with a GRT catalyst to form the desired products and additional HBr. Through careful selection of the catalyst and the reaction conditions, the product distribution can be controlled.
Regeneration: HBr produced in both Steps 1 and 2 is captured and converted to bromine for reuse in Step 1 of the process.

The major advantages of the GRT conversion technology are:

The chemical pathway to products is direct without excessive oxidation.
The process catalysts are insensitive to common gas contaminants.
The product distribution can be tailored to the market by selecting the appropriate GRT catalysts.
The hydrocarbon products obtained from the process are the same as those found in conventional gasoline and diesel fuels and thus compatible with existing engines distribution systems.
The process can be implemented cost effectively at scales far smaller than existing technologies (such as Fischer-Tropsch).

At the core of GRT’s technology is the establishment and control of optimum reaction conditions combined with the design, composition and form of the catalysts and metal oxides that selectively allow the reactions to proceed to the desired products while restricting byproduct formation.

The GRT Technology can be used to produce hydrocarbon fuels as well as several classes of commodity petrochemicals, including alcohols, ethers, olefins, epoxides, and fuel molecules.

GRT uses bromine (a member of the halogen family) as a methane-activating agent, rather than the far more common chlorine (another member of the halogen family) because bromine: (1) reacts with methane in a controllable fashion, (2) offers safety advantages over chlorine, and (3) is produced from HBr under milder conditions than would be required to produce chlorine from HCl.

GRT has developed three different methods for recovering hydrogen bromide and regenerating bromine, with the optimum method contingent upon the capacity and local environment of the facility.

Process Option I: Bromine is regenerated by reacting hydrogen bromide with air over a catalyst.
Process Option II: Bromine is regenerated by reacting hydrogen bromide with a solid metal oxide (e.g. NiO), producing steam and solid metal bromide (e.g. NiBr2), and then regenerating both bromine and the solid metal oxide by reacting the metal bromide with air.
Process Option III: Bromine is regenerated by through the electrolysis of hydrogen bromide using low cost or renewable electricity from solar or wind sources.

[Chromium6]

Monday, June 9, 2008

Solid Hydrocarbons Found In Pillow Lava




Basalt and andesite are the two most common igneous rocks of volcanic and magmatic origin. When a submarine volcano erupts underwater or flows into the sea, it forms basalt and andesite pillow lava.

In Mitov, Czech Republic, "solid bitumin," i.e. hydrocarbons, have been directly observed in pillow lava. This can leave no doubt, save in the mind (or lack thereof) of the most dogmatic biogenic fundamentalist, that hydrocarbons have a volcanic origin. However a biogenic origin is assumed without any evidence whatsoever based upon prejudice, ignorance, and a lack of education. Evidence for fullerenes in solid bitumen from pillow lavas of Proterozoic age from Mítov.

Andesitic pillow lavas containing biogenic, solid bitumen (SB) are a constituent of a Neoproterozoic volcanosedimentary sequence (Teplá-Barrandian unit, Bohemian Massif) in the Mítov area of the Czech Republic.

How can molten igneous Proterozoic pillow lava contain biogenic hydrocarbons? What evidence is there that the bitumin is biogenic? They just ASSUME it's biogenic because it's a hydrocarbon. Wouldn't the lava melt the bitumin if it were biogenic?

Fullerenes (C60) were observed in the "bitumin." Fullerenes have also been observed in Shungite which is elemental igneous carbon.

Unearthing Buckyballs.

When Buseck and Tsipursky told Hettich that the rock had come from Russia and not a meteorite, he was somewhat surprised. "In the laboratory," says Hettich, "fullerenes are created in an atmosphere of inert gases, like helium, because common diatomic gases, like nitrogen and oxygen inhibit fullerene growth. This is why fullerenes are not found in ordinary soot, like that in household fireplaces. It seemed more likely to find naturally occurring fullerenes in meteorites, where interaction with these gases would be less of a problem."

It should be obvious that the geological source of helium for fullerene generation is in the mantle.

More recently, C60 and C70 have also been found in a sample of glassy rock from the mountains of Colorado. Known as a fulgurite, this type of rock structure is formed when lightning strikes the ground.

Maybe life started when lightning struck a mud puddle after all although this has yet to be repeated in laboratory experiments.

Busek, Tsipursky, and Hettich speculated in a 1992 paper that lightning strikes could provide conditions that are favorable for the formation of buckyballs.

The shungite fullerenes are notable not only for their earthly origin, but also because they may have been formed as solids--most laboratory-created fullerenes are grown in the gas phase. "This is the first example of solid-phase fullerene growth," says Hettich, "It has raised a lot of questions about how the rock was formed, how old it is, and how its composition may have changed over time. Because the shungite sample may be volcanic in origin, you can imagine conditions, like those in a volcano, that would be hot enough to form fullerenes and, at the same time, have little or no oxygen or nitrogen present. But right now, no one is sure exactly how these fullerenes were produced."

"This kind of discovery raises more questions than it answers," says Hettich, "but that's not necessarily a bad thing."--Jim Pearce

Thomas Gold On Geologists, Oil,& Volcanoes.

What led you to think the liquids holding open these pores might be hydrocarbons left over from the Earth's creation?
Probably reading Arthur Holmes, who had written so many things that were egocentric expressions of opinion. He was the great father of geology - and still is - but I found his work quite shocking.

Shocking in what way?
Whenever he discussed some facts that were inconvenient, he would say that they should not be taken seriously, that it was purely due to chance. He far exceeded his information with the opinions that were mixed in - statements like, "Oil is not found in association with coal except accidentally, and not found in volcanic areas except accidentally." Look at the arc of Indonesia, from Burma to New Guinea: It's far more earthquakey than any other place we know. It makes lots of small, deep earthquakes, it's along exactly that belt that you have volcanoes - and you have petroleum along the whole of the line. "Never found in association with volcanoes except accidentally" - that's a hell of an accident.

Petroleum and Tectonic Map of Southeast Asia. The relationship of the hydrocarbon deposits to the geological area in whole, independent of geological age and rock type, is easily seen. A common chemical signature links these oils of diverse geological, but close geographical location. The relationship of the deposits to both mountain and volcano formation zones indicates upwelling hydrocarbons as the primary driving force for such diverse geological phenomena.

http://oilismastery.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... -lava.html

[starbiter]

Concerning hydrocarbons in andesite and basalt, there might be an explanation that does not require a volcano. If dust arrived on Earth from above, glowing red hot and molten, while it was raining hydrocarbons, volcanoes aren't required. The process heating the dust to incandescence might also be highly electromagnetic, increasing the amount of iron in the basalt and andesite. If the basalt and andesite landed on a steep surface next to water it might flow into the water creating billow basat and andesite. This would fit nicely with the legends described in Worlds in Collision. The Green River Basin has 4 trillion barrels of proven oil reserves [over half the Earth's proven reserve] and no volcanoes.

michael

[Chromium6]

Concerning hydrocarbons in andesite and basalt, there might be an explanation that does not require a volcano. If dust arrived on Earth from above, glowing red hot and molten, while it was raining hydrocarbons, volcanoes aren't required. The process heating the dust to incandescence might also be highly electromagnetic, increasing the amount of iron in the basalt and andesite. If the basalt and andesite landed on a steep surface next to water it might flow into the water creating billow basat and andesite. This would fit nicely with the legends described in Worlds in Collision. The Green River Basin has 4 trillion barrels of proven oil reserves [over half the Earth's proven reserve] and no volcanoes.

michael

Well starbiter,

I guess in Paleogeography we can never really say "never". Especially with numerous stratovolcanoes and the Yellowstone caldera not very far away.

The Eocene Absaroka Volcanic Province grew to the north-northwest of the Green River Basin. Sundell (1993) reported that volcanism occurred between 53 and 38 Ma, and that the center of eruption and deposition shifted southeastward with time. Andesitic stratovolcanoes are interpreted to have risen to heights of nearly 3 km throughout the evolution of the Absarokan volcanic terrane. These volcanoes quickly eroded and formed a thick, regional volcaniclastic deposit. Surdam and Stanley (1980) documented a hydrologic connection between the Green River Basin and the Absaroka volcanics based on paleocurrent measurements and clastic provenance study of the Sand Butte Bed of the Laney Member. This hydrologic connection is further examined in this dissertation through geochemical and stratigraphic means.

Within the Absaroka Volcanic Province exists one of the most structurally enigmatic features in North America, the Heart Mountain detachment (HMD). In short, the HMD, exposed over a 3400 km2 area of northwestern Wyoming, is composed of a break-away fault where the upper plate of the detachment is interpreted to have originated, a bedding plane fault that follows resistant Ordovician dolomite, and a transgressive fault over which Paleozoic strata and Tertiary volcanics co-exist and overlie the Eocene land surface. This controversial structure was first described by Dake (1918), and has subsequently been the focus of an ongoing structural debate regarding emplacement rate: was the HMD formed catastrophically as suggested in variations of the “tectonic denudation” model of Pierce (1973, 1987), or was it the result of a slower process as proposed in the continuous allochthon model of Hauge (1985, 1990). Malone (1995, 1996, 1997) argued for catastrophic emplacement based on his interpretation of a large debris avalanche deposit associated with Heart Mountain faulting, mapped as the Deer Creek Member of the Wapiti Formation. Given evidence of a hydrologic connection between the Absaroka region and the Green River Basin (Surdam and Stanley, 1980), and the current geochronologic constraints for Heart Mountain faulting (49.5-47.5 Ma; Pierce, 1973, 1987; Torres and Gingerich, 1983) and Laney Member deposition (49.02 ± 0.15 Ma; Smith et al., 2001), it is possible that a sedimentary record of Heart Mountain faulting exists in the Green River Basin, and that it will elucidate one of the proposed emplacement models.

http://www.geology.wisc.edu/~carroll/re ... tation.pdf

GEOLOGIC SETTING

The Green River Formation represents a ~5 Ma interval of lacustrine deposition during the early to middle Eocene time (Smith et al., in review). It exists within the greater Green River Basin of southwestern Wyoming, northwestern Colorado, and northeastern Utah (Figure 1.1). The basin is in the foreland of the Sevier Thrust Front and is bounded to the north, east, and south by Precambrian cored Laramide style uplifts from Cretaceous/Paleocene time. The uplifts are (clockwise from the west) the Sevier thrust belt, the Wind River Mountains, Granite Mountains, Sierra Madre, and the Uinta Mountains. The lacustrine strata of the Green River Formation were deposited during the final stages of Laramide uplift. The formation includes the clay rich Luman Tongue, carbonate rich oil shales of the Tipton Shale Member, evaporites of the Wilkins Peak Member, and the
limestone, oil shale, and tuffaceous sands of the Laney Member (Roehler, 1993; Figure 1.2).

The Greater Green River Basin (43,500 km2) is divided into four sub-basins by structural arches; the western Green River Basin, northeastern Great Divide Basin, eastern Washakie Basin, and southeastern Sand Wash Basin. Laterally extensive tuff deposits within Laney strata indicate that deposition within the sub-basins was time transgressive during the final stages of lacustrine deposition, infilling north to south (Roehler, 1993).

Stratigraphic relationships between the lacustrine Green River Formation and the time equivalent alluvial Wasatch and Bridger Formations suggest that the aerial extent of Lake Gosiute was highly variable throughout its existence (Figure 1.3; Roehler, 1993). Expansion and contraction of Lake Gosiute has previously been attributed to fluctuations in the early to middle Eocene climatic regime (Roehler, 1993), but more recent studies suggest that tectonic and magmatic controls on the geomorphic evolution of the basin and its drainage played an integral part in the lake size and type (Surdam and Stanley, 1980; Carroll and Bohacs, 1999; Wilf, 2000; Morrill et al., 2001; Pietras et al., in press; Rhodes et al., in review).

The Luman Tongue of the Green River Formation covers an area of approximately 17,200 km2 centered around the Uinta Mountain trough. Roehler (1993) interpreted a decrease in precipitation and
al. (2003) interpret a tectonic control that forced the lake to retreat back to the Uinta Mountain trough where it occupied an area of ~ 18,000 km2.

Roehler (1993) interpreted the deposition of the Wilkins Peak Member to represent a period of intense climatic cyclicity from hot and dry to warm and temperate conditions, causing the expansion, contraction, and extinction of Lake Gosiute, approximately 77 times, during Wilkins Peak time. To test for precessional forcing as a control for Wilkins Peak depositional cycles Pietras et al., (2002) combined detailed stratigraphic analysis with 40Ar/39Ar dating of tuffs to reveal a 10.2 +/- 3.6 kyr cyclicity, precluding precessional controls on cycle level stratigraphic expression. Paleocurrent indicators suggest that sediment was brought in to the basin from the south and east during this time (Figure 1.3). The lake depocenter migrated into the central Green River Basin, just west of the Rock Springs uplift (Roehler, 1992).

Lake Gosiute reached its maximum size of 39,900 km2, roughly half the area of Lake Superior, during the deposition of the Laney Member of the Green River Formation (Roehler, 1992). During Laney Deposition, paleocurrent measurements indicate the majority of clastic sediment was brought in from north of the basin (Surdam and Stanley, 1980; Figure 1.3). During Laney time, the depocenter shifted toward the eastern Uinta trough as the basin was infilled with sediment from north to south (Roehler, 1993). The Laney Member represents the final transition in the basin from lacustrine to alluvial environments.

[Chromium6]

Origin and microfossils of the oil shale of the Green River formation
By Wilmot Hyde Bradley
http://books.google.com/books?id=_IvnAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA34

page 31 has a description of the Oil Shale composition. The book is a bit dated.

[starbiter]

Well Chromium,

Andreas Otte summed up my ideas about oil and coal in the article linked below.

http://www.eu-geology.com/?page_id=325

I posted this earlier. I remember the sound of crickets after the post.

The material You posted above claims the volcanism was a minimum of 38 million years ago.

The linked map below shows volcanoes in the USA.

http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=12

The volcano in CO is implied by the basalt in the area. There isn't a volcano present today. That is a recurring pattern. The Yellowstone Super Volcano needs to be looked at differently with an EU model.

Finding layers of "volcanic" ash in the sediments of the Green River Basin doesn't require a volcano in an Electric Universe. Are You open to an Electric Universe? If not You might want to post on the NIAMI board, not here!

Without the possibilities presented by EU concepts volcanoes might be the only option for oil production. With EU concepts the volcanic model of oil production seems like a stretch. The pillow basalt containing hydrocarbons You mentioned above might be from volcanic activity. I TRY to keep an open mind. But there is an external, catastrophic, comet based explanation that i mentioned earlier.

The estimated 100,000,000 barrels of oil in the Covenant Field doesn't seem volcanic. It's in a river/lake system surrounded by dunes of dolomite.

http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... 70chidsey/

"Cores from the Navajo Sandstone display a variety of eolian facies (dune, interdune, lake/playa, fluvial/wadi), fracturing, and minor faults which, in combination, create reservoir heterogeneity. Reservoir sandstone is 97% frosted quartz grains (bimodal grain size), with some quartz overgrowths and illite. The net reservoir thickness is 424 ft over a 1600-ac area. Porosity averages 12%; permeability is 100 mD. The drive mechanism is a strong water drive; water saturation is 38%. A thorough understanding of all the components that created Covenant field will determine whether it is a harbinger of additional, large oil discoveries in this vast, under-explored region."

Me again,

I really hope You might consider a recent, electrical, catastrophic model for oil and coal. This is the Thunderbolts Forum.

michael steinbacher

[Chromium6]

Well... I'm not here to shoot down EU. I believe in it. I just know that if millions of gallons of oil came down from the sky it would obliterate nearly all mammals on earth, and that it would be impossible to have another "Great Evolution" in a few 10,000 or even a few 10 million years considering the cyclic nature of the EU universe.

I believe, without a lot of experiments to back it up, that dolomite/sandstone over the ages when repeatedly "boiled" with bitumen/coal formations can act as the "micro-channels" for a natural type of Fischer-Tropsch process. If the company Velocys above is doing it with innumerable millimeter sized tubes and catalysts, well, perhaps then nature provides dolomite as a "bake-able" crystal filter at 2mm for refining hydro-carbons or some form of hydro-carbon "goo" (most from the crust). It may need the right type of dolomite at the right temperature. Perhaps a volcano isn't even necessary, just a continuous heat source (like a long running coal fire) or a fissure/seam like at Yellowstone. The Green River at one time did have these heat sources particularly in the North.

Now if the dolomite came down from the sky in a great inter-planetry cataclysm, I wouldn't fully dis-believe that all, I would just have a problem believing refined products could drop into what was Saudi Arabia or the Gulf of Mexico as is.

Like I said, I don't have any real evidence to back this theory up. But if Velocys-Oxford is producing localized F-T refineries that work that efficiently, it wouldn't take much for mother nature to build herself one with dolomite, bitumen and sea/lake water near a continuous heat source. And if it did this for a few million years and the heat source dried up -- at least the refined products are left behind.

Basically, is mother nature doing something like Velocys or GRT is doing with their F-T products but in the wild? If so, we will never stop finding forms of oil, oil shale and NG.
http://wsh060.westhills.wmich.edu/RPSEA ... ew/HDO.pdf

[starbiter]

Hi Chromium,

Have You read Worlds in Collision? It seems to answer many of Your objections.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21746049/Veli ... -Collision

The descent of a sticky fluid which came earthward and blazed with heavy smoke is recalled in the oral and written traditions of the inhabitants of both hemispheres. Popol-Vuh, the sacred book of the Mayas, narrates: 2 "It was ruin and destruction . . . the sea was piled up ... it was a great inundation . . . people were drowned in a sticky substance raining from the sky. . . . The face of the earth grew dark and the gloomy rain endured days and nights. . . .And then there was a great din of fire above their heads." The entire population of the land was annihilated.The Manuscript Quiche perpetuated the picture of the population of Mexico perishing in a downpour of bitumen: 3 "There descended from the sky a rain of bitumen and of a sticky substance. . . . The earth was obscured and it rained day and night. And men ran hither and thither and were as if seized by madness; they tried to climb to the roofs, and the houses crashed down; they tried to climb the trees, and the trees cast them far away; and when they tried to escape in caves and caverns, these were suddenly closed."A similar account is preserved in the Annals of Cuauhtitlan.* The age which ended in the rain of fire was called Quiauh-tonatiuh, which means "the sun of fire-rain." 5And far away, in the other hemisphere, in Siberia, the Voguls carried down through the centuriesand millennia this memory: "God sent a sea of fire upon the earth. . . . The cause of the fire they call 'the fire-water.'" 6Half a meridian to the south, in the East Indies, the aboriginal2 Popol-Vuh, 55 tribes relate that in the remote past Sengle-Das or "water of fire" rained from the sky; with very few exceptions, all men died.7 The eighth plague as described in the Book of Exodus was"harad [meteorites] and fire mingled with the barad, very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation" (Exodus 9 : 24). There were "thunder [correct:loud noises] and barad, and the fire ran along upon the ground" (Exodus 9 : 23).The Papyrus Ipuwer describes this consuming fire: "Gates, columns, and walls are consumed by fire. The sky is in confusion."8 The papyrus says that this fire almost "exterminated mankind."The Midrashim, in a number of texts, state that naphtha, together with hot stones, poured downupon Egypt. "The Egyptians refused to let the Israelites go, and He poured out naphtha over them, burning blains [blisters]." It was "a stream of hot naphtha." 9 Naphtha is petroleum in Aramaic and Hebrew.


Me again,

The survivors claim almost everyone died from the oil that rained from the sky.

I should have provided this link earlier.


http://www.eu-geology.com/?page_id=321

michael

[starbiter]

Hello Anaconda,

You have made an excellent case against fossil oil. However, the objections against fossil petroleum don't work against oil from comets or gas giants, IMO. I asked a chemist friend to look at the link below.

http://www.im.microbios.org/0801/0801005.pdf Page 9 deals with organics

Dr Paul Anderson's remarks follow,
[...]

In taking the cometary gases listed in Llorca’s paper, one clearly
sees that basic hydrocarbons abound. Simple molecules such as CO, H2,
CH4, etc. are a far cry from naptha and multi-ringed and petroleum
type compounds. However, there is precedence that when combined with
the other inorganic constituents of the comet longer chain
hydrocarbons and even naptha type compound can be formed in extreme
cases. The Fischer Tropsch synthesis of hydrocarbons is a well known,
commercially successful process. It was utilized in WWII once the
Allies cut off Germany’s sources of oil. German chemists figured out a
way to synthesize fuels from simple hydrocarbon, hydrogen, and CO type
feeds over transition metal-based catalysts. The iron catalyst serves
as a nucleation point in which the CO is hydrogenated and subsequent
chain propogation occurs. Gasoline, kerosene, and even heavy tars are
obtained in this process. The temperatures required are moderate, only
in the 200-500C range, and pressures effect the range of products
formed. While it is unknown the temperature distribution in the comet
corona/tail, I suspect at some points from the surface it is within
the range due to the visible glow discharge of the ions in the tail.
As the hydrocarbons pass through the regions of optimal temperature,
when mixed with the iron-nickel minerals so often found in comet dust,
the hydrocarbons could be formed through catalytic reactions. Upon
further cooling, they would condense as a range of petroleum products.

Me again,

At least one chemist thinks that various petroleum products are available from comets.

I just returned from the Book Cliffs and Green River basin. The shale layers appear to be the result of flooding on a continental scale. The upper layers are now being processed. The depth starts at 30'.

http://www.eenews.net/public/energywire/2012/05/22/1

[...]
Todd says the oil sands veins are 30 feet below the surface, although the depth and thickness of the resource varies and some veins extend much deeper. Excavating those sands would involve stripping the land of vegetation, removing the topsoil and strip mining the resource.

me again,
This apparent slosh remnant [limestone cap with clay and sand layers] contains half of the known oil reserves of our planet according to the GAO.

http://thecoloradoobserver.com/2012/05/ ... estimates/

In the case of the Covenant field the oil is in rivers, lakes, and dunes of dolomite. This seems like a flood of oil that flowed into a lake. At least to me.

You have questioned oil above basement rock as an objection to comet oil. The Electric Universe model doesn't propose a catastrophe. It proposes many electric catastrophes. The process might have begun at the bottom of the geologic column. The bottom of the sediments. Oil might also be expected to seep down because of gravity. As additional sediments were piled above the early oil deposits the heat would increase. With additional heat, gases might be released from the liquid oil, greatly increasing the pressure. Increased pressure might cause the oil to expand in the direction of least resistance. This direction might be up, down, or sideways. If there was a fault or cracks below the formation, oil might be forced down. If there is a cavity the oil might fill it under great pressure. If oil and pressure are removed from oil deposits above during drilling, pressurized oil from below might replace some of the removed oil and gas. This might explain oil fields apparently being refilled after being exploited.

The oil we exploit might be produced deep within the Earth in a volcanic process as You propose. Getting that oil into a river/lake/dune system like Covenant or massive shale layers like Green River/Book Cliffs seems like a huge stretch. The fossils found in oil shale seem hard to explain if the oil and minerals were from volcanic activity deep within Earth.

I hope You can consider abiotic comet oil. The proven quantities contained in what appears to be a slosh [the Green River area] should answer any question about the potential quantities of externally produced oil.

michael steinbacher

Hi again Chromium,

This earlier post quoting Dr Paul Anderson might help You be a little more comfortable with comet petroleum.

michael