Comet Borisov

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Comet Borisov

Unread postby beekeeper » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:09 pm

Greetings EU pilgrims, here is an article about the above mentioned comet.
https://on.rt.com/a4dr
The scientists advance the water from another star system can be detected as the icy body approaches the sun, and the ice melts leaving a trail of oxygen. The comet is beyond the orbit of mars where any water would remain frozen. Why would icei, f there was any on the comet, melt?? Regards Beekeeper
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby beekeeper » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:17 pm

Correction temperature of mars varies quite a bit the poles reaching some -100 Celsius. Now the space temperature being around -2 70 Celsius it seems odd that such a small body could gather so much heat from the sun.at such a distance Regards Beekeeper.
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby beekeeper » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:32 pm

Hello just one more thing why would they not find traces of hydrogen? Let's speculate that the ice could turn to water the next step will be steam or water vapour what kind of energy will it take to break down the molecular structure and then what happens to the hydrogen witch should be twice the amount ar the atomic level gas form??
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby Maol » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:22 pm

beekeeper wrote:Greetings EU pilgrims, here is an article about the above mentioned comet.
https://on.rt.com/a4dr
The scientists advance the water from another star system can be detected as the icy body approaches the sun, and the ice melts leaving a trail of oxygen. The comet is beyond the orbit of mars where any water would remain frozen. Why would icei, f there was any on the comet, melt?? Regards Beekeeper

Sublimation
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby beekeeper » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:35 pm

Ok sublimation, at this distance and in that environment it is doubtful in my mind that heat is responsible. And what about the Hydrogen, it should freeze shortly after leaving the comet how is there no trace of it or do they just ignore to mention It?
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby JP Michael » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:18 pm

This is just the usual kow-tow to the prevailing paradigm. The detection of oxygen is by no means proof that there is water (ice) and is the common logical error of affirming the consequent.

If water (ice) is present on the comet, it should (evaporate, sublimate, whatever) produce detectable oxygen.

They detected oxygen. Therefore there is alien water (ice) on the comet. This conclusion is erroneous and better explained by the electric universe model of comets.

Comets are not 'dirty snowballs' of frozen, dusty water. They are solid rock, as demonstrably proved by all extant images of cometary bodies. In this regard we may consider comets = asteroids in terms of their primary forms and mineral compositions. The difference between them is that comets have ellipical, eccentric orbits whereas asteroids have mostly found a region of orbital stability between Mars and Jupiter and also in the Kuiper Belt.

Because of these ellipical orbits, comets are primarily negatively charged pieces of rock. Any oxygen present on them is being electrically ionised out of their mineral composition by the positively charged solar wind (which, in fact, is also similar to the cause of volcanism on earth- charged magma and gases bursting through the crust to meet and greet currents of strong opposite charge in the lower atmosphere). This increases as the comet approaches the 'habitable zone', the region surrounding the sun that exhibits stronger interactions with the sun's positively charged electric field until such time as the highly energised electrons and negatively charged ions begin to emit light in the visible spectrum for human observers, producing the typical 'tails' seen on all comets. Comets still have tails in invisible light spectrums further from the sun due to inherently lower electron energy states. Distant comets struck by charged coronal mass ejections will begin to flare immediately and produce temporary tails, much to the chagrin of the prevailing paradigm.

Having traversed from the negatively-charged outer regions of the solar system, the comet will begin to lose negative charge as it begins to interact with the positively-charged solar wind and the sun's electric field. It is expected, indeed predicted in the EU model, that the rocky body will begin to expel negatively charged particles, dust and ions the closer it approaches to the sun. These phenomena are also sometimes called 'cometary jets' in standard astrophysics nomenclature. The comet's tail is, in fact, the most obvious, visible manifestation of a jetting stream of negative charge flaring up to its magnificent proportions. The detection of both monatomic O2- and OH- in the tails of comets is a natural result of the changing charge differential between the comet and the energised electric environment of the inner solar system and not necessarily that of the presence of water (ice). I would suppose that very little, if any, water is actually present on comets due to the ease at which water loves to split into its charged components, 2H+, O2-, OH- and H3O+.

Comets should not usually expel monatomic H+ or hydrogen plasma (protons) in such interactions but rather exactly the opposite. Any detectable hydrogen present near comet Borisov will be attracted to it due to the comet's inherently negative charge. Good luck finding that admission from NASA or anyone else worshipping the prevailing paradigm.
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby neilwilkes » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:03 am

Well said, JP.
Beautifully worded.
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby paladin17 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:52 pm

JP Michael wrote:Having traversed from the negatively-charged outer regions of the solar system, the comet will begin to lose negative charge as it begins to interact with the positively-charged solar wind and the sun's electric field. It is expected, indeed predicted in the EU model, that the rocky body will begin to expel negatively charged particles, dust and ions the closer it approaches to the sun. These phenomena are also sometimes called 'cometary jets' in standard astrophysics nomenclature. The comet's tail is, in fact, the most obvious, visible manifestation of a jetting stream of negative charge flaring up to its magnificent proportions.

This explanation is invalid due to a simple observation that the comet's tail is directed away from the Sun, not towards it.
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby JP Michael » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:47 pm

Are you suggesting that comets are not constantly barraged with a stream of energised solar plasma (aka 'solar wind') which sweeps the outgoing negatively charged particles with it? The negative charge emitted from the comet is naturally attracted to the positive sweeping past it, hence why they naturally form tails in the direction of the solar wind. Bow shock in the front, tail in the rear.

The science is actually incredibly clear on this point. Both the coma and the tail are highly ionised environments, although the coma has a large quantity of neutral, non-polar gases also present.[1][2]

Figure 1. Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko. Courteousy of NASA. Notice it is made of solid rock, not ice.
Image

Of note, however, is that ions will stream forward from the rocky body towards the solar wind in the coma, before the majority are swept/blasted back by the solar wind.[3] This is exactly as expected in the EU model. In fact, on 20th April 2007 Comet Encke had its tail 'severed' when it was hit by a coronal mass ejection.[4] The immense and sudden bombardment of positive charge has swept all the ionised elements in Encke's tail along with it.

Figure 2. Comet Encke loses its tail. Courteousy of NASA.
Image

That water forms a majority neutral element within the coma is more likely a result of the recombination of monatomic/diatomic hydrogen binding with monatomic/diatomic oxygen already abundant within the coma due to its initial ionisation from the rocky surface. One would expect deionised hydrogen protons (of which there is an overabundant supply from the solar wind) should also do the same if they had opportunity to de-energise from plasma to gas and freely interact with the myriad of elements always present in the coma of a comet.[5] This phenomenon also explains the presence of such gases like CH4 and NH3 (amongst many others). It is de-energised particles originating from both the solar wind and the comet's mineral composition recombining, however temporarily, into the menagerie of molecules always present in the comet's coma.

I will admit the possibility of some solid ice in select nooks and crannies on the surface, as supposed by De Sanctis, Capaccioni et.al [6], but it is far from abundant, so much so that most researchers have to invent subsurface origins for it (as with Io and Titan) in attempts to explain jetting phenomenon.[7] It is subsurface hydroxyl and monatomic oxygen (amongst a myriad of other negatively charged elements and molecules) that is being drawn out of the mineral composition of the comet's rock by its changing environment of negative charge (outer solar system) to positive charge (inner solar system).

Comets exhibit a complex array of highly energised electrical phenomena, plain and simple. Every observable feature of them testifies to this fact.

[1] Bieler, A., Altwegg, K., Balsiger, H., Bar-Nun, A., Berthelier, J.-J., Bochsler, P., … Wurz, P. (2015). "Abundant molecular oxygen in the coma of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko." Nature, 526(7575), 678–681. 
[2] Rubin, M., Hansen, K. C., Gombosi, T. I., Combi, M. R., Altwegg, K., & Balsiger, H. (2009). "Ion composition and chemistry in the coma of Comet 1P/Halley—A comparison between Giotto’s Ion Mass Spectrometer and our ion-chemical network." Icarus, 199(2), 505-519. doi:10.1016/j.icarus.2008.10.009
[3] See especially Figures 4 and 5 in ibid., 511.
[4] https://web.archive.org/web/20091104041 ... _encke.htm
[5] https://sci.esa.int/web/rosetta/-/55963 ... comet-coma
[6] De Sanctis, M. C., Capaccioni, F., Ciarniello, M., Filacchione, G., Formisano, M., … Quirico, E. (2015). "The diurnal cycle of water ice on comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko." Nature, 525(7570), 500–503. doi:10.1038/nature14869
[7] Ibid, Extended Data Figure 3.
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby nick c » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:18 pm

I have posted this link on other comet threads but it bears repeating.
This NASA document acknowledges that the presence of hydroxyls in the tail and atmosphere of comets can be accounted for by the interaction of the Solar Wind with the surface of the comet.

14.6. INFERENCES ON THE NATURE OF COMETS FROM EMISSION CHARACTERISTICS

The assumption of ices as important bonding materials in cometary nuclei rests in almost all cases on indirect evidence, specifically the observation of atomic hydrogen (Lyman [Greek letter] alpha
emission) and hydroxyl radical in a vast cloud surrounding the comet, in some cases accompanied by observation of H20+ or neutral water molecules. In addition, CH3CN, HCN, and corresponding radicals and ions are common constituents of the cometary gas envelope. These observations can be rationalized by assuming (Delsemme, 1972; Mendis, 1973) that the cometary nuclei consist of loose agglomerates containing, in addition to silicates (observed by infrared spectrometry (Maas et al., 1970)) and also water ice with inclusions of volatile carbon and nitrogen compounds.

It has been suggested by Lal (1972b) that the Lyman a emission could be caused by solar wind hydrogen, thermalized on the particles in the dust cloud surrounding the comet. Experiments by Arrhenius and Andersen (1973) irradiating calcium aluminosilicate (anorthite) surfaces with protons in the 10-keV range resulted in a substantial (~10 percent) yield of hydroxyl ion and also hydroxyl ion complexes such as CaOH.

Observations on the lunar surface (Hapke et al., 1970; Epstein and Taylor, 1970, 1972) also demonstrate that such proton-assisted abstraction of oxygen (preferentially O16) from silicates is an active process in space, resulting in a flux of OH and related species. In cometary particle streams, new silicate surfaces would relatively frequently be exposed by fracture and fusion at grain collision. The production of hydroxyl radicals and ions would in this case not be rate-limited by surface saturation to the same extent as on the Moon (for lunar soil turnover rate, see Arrhenius et al. (1972)).

These observations, although not negating the possible occurrence of water ice in cometary nuclei, point also to refractory sources of the actually observed hydrogen and hydroxyl. Solar protons as well as the products of their reaction with silicate oxygen would interact with any solid carbon and nitrogen compounds characteristic of carbonaceous chondrites to yield volatile carbon and nitrogen radicals such as observed in comets. Phenomena such as "flares," "breakups," "high-velocity jets," and nongravitational [236] acceleration are all phenomena that fit well into a theory ascribing them to the evaporation of frozen volatiles. However, with different semantic labels the underlying observations would also seem to be interpretable as manifestations of the focusing and dispersion processes in the cometary region of the meteor stream, accompanied by solar wind interaction.
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby neilwilkes » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:47 am

Maol wrote:
beekeeper wrote:Greetings EU pilgrims, here is an article about the above mentioned comet.
https://on.rt.com/a4dr
The scientists advance the water from another star system can be detected as the icy body approaches the sun, and the ice melts leaving a trail of oxygen. The comet is beyond the orbit of mars where any water would remain frozen. Why would icei, f there was any on the comet, melt?? Regards Beekeeper

Sublimation


Really?
Can I ask you one question - what temperature do you think water ice melts at?
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby Sci-Phy » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:26 am

paladin17 wrote:This explanation is invalid due to a simple observation that the comet's tail is directed away from the Sun, not towards it.

That's the problem with modern science. The facts that contradict to something are hidden.
In the past it was possible to read almost everywhere that the tail of some comets directed toward the sun.
This day such fact is not searchable.
Here is one of the examples back from 1957: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1957ApNr....6...27B

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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby nick c » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:49 am

Nothing is being hidden. A comet's "antitail" is quite different from the tail, which points away from the Sun. The antitail which usually is not pointing toward the Sun and is not the opposite of the tail, but is rather aligned with the comet's orbital path. The antitail is visible from Earth when the comet and Earth are properly aligned. (see diagram)
antitail.jpg
Antitail


see:
https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10 ... 1193-e-192
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby webolife » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:47 pm

As a another footnote, ions such a hydroxyls [OH-] are observable from a distance spectrographically, but the hydrogen ion [H+] is simply a proton... to observe this you must being standing in its way with an appropriate detector to count it. The presence of either or both H+ and OH- about other members of our solar family does not actually evidence the presence of H2O, despite it being so often claimed by those in search of extraterrestrial water and the alleged "life" it might wishfully contain.
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Re: Comet Borisov

Unread postby JP Michael » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:01 pm

neilwilkes wrote:Really?
Can I ask you one question - what temperature do you think water ice melts at?


Water ice readily sublimates in certain conditions. That much is, actually, correct. Whether it applies to the highly ionised environment of rocky cometary bodies is another question entirely.
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