Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

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Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby shonlove » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:40 am

Hey all,

I've been a lurker on these forums for a while now. Fascinating stuff!

I found this article linked in Slashdot, and wanted your take on the info.

http://arxivblog.com/?p=596

They've observed that nuclear decay varies in conjunction with the earth-sun distance.

Your thoughts?

Thanks,
Shon
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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:56 am

Thanks for this Shonlove!

This is a rather interesting revelation. I wonder... They note that beta decay rates can be changed in the presence of a powerful electric field. If the sun has an electric field and the Earth is dropping through it... Does the difference between perihelion (closest approach) and aphelion (farthest distance) also equate to a larger and smaller e-field strength at those points in its orbit? Might a change in the relative strength of the e-field account for the decay rate changes?

Just a thought... Of course that would probably mean accepting that the sun holds a charge and the Earth holds a charge, such that there's a voltage drop between them. Currents flow in space. Planets, stars, and such are charged bodies in space. Etc.

Sets the mind spinning a bit, eh?

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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby earls » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:23 pm

There's a lot of variables at play in this situation. I find it incredibly fascinating though. Also, remember the kilogram standards? Their mass is slowly deviating from the original. Perhaps that is additional evidence of this phenomenon at work?
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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby redeye » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:45 pm

Wasn't there a post, with regards to radiometric dating, that gave details of an experiment showing that a change in the electromagnetic field will change the decay rate.

I've tried a search, but no joy.

Very, very interesting though. It's seems like there is a potential paradigm busting news release every other day at the moment.

Allais_effect

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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby rangerover777 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:33 pm

There are a few interesting things here.
The first is the Radium itself, since it’s one of the most radioactive matters known and
it loses approx. 1% of it’s activity every 25 years. When it decays 100% the final product
is Lead. Radium surfacing from the depth of the earth where it forms, under great pressure
and heat. While close to the center it absorbing much radiation (most likely from the circulating
magnets around and through the earth). When it surface to the crust it release these excess
particles are radiation, in order to become normal again.

The other interesting thing is that the final product after the Radium decayed completely - is Lead.
Which may give us a clue as to the composition of the center of the earth. Lead is one of the
best matters to block radioactive radiation, because of it’s density (11.34 gr. / cu/cm). If the
part of radiation from the sun can penetrate through the earth + cosmic rays (that goes through
the earth) + magnetic circulation that goes through the earth - will encounter the middle of the
earth and will be either slow down or stopped, due to the density of the matter reside there, then
a great friction will occur causing a great heat causing a great pressure. Now if this matter in
the middle of the earth is Lead and not iron (as accepted), chances this fusion process will likely
to occur. And if the Radium that surface up, decay and what left is Lead, it may be a clue.

The last interesting thing is about the decay of Radium and Silicon-32, due to the distance of
the sun. But sorry, have to go back to work. Will come in next post.

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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby Mark Hinton » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:03 pm

Oh My God, I had predicted this, and even sent an e-mail to a "scientist" to try and confirm the Idea I had that nuclear decay rates are not a constant, "No repley was made". I had in mind a very simple experiment, that would require very expensive equipment to perform. I couldn't understand why no one had noticed this fact earlier. This further confirms my hypothesis, which is very much in line with what rangerover777 said. North and South pole magnets should be at different densities at different elevations. I would imagined an atomic clock would lose time if it were placed in a deep, deep, hole compared with with an identical clock on a high mountain or in a helium baloon. Does anybody know of data that shows rate variations of dacay by elevation in matter that is unshielded magnetically ? Iam very happy to see there is evidence decay may vary. Thank so much for sharing.
Mark
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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:21 pm

earls wrote:There's a lot of variables at play in this situation. I find it incredibly fascinating though. Also, remember the kilogram standards? Their mass is slowly deviating from the original. Perhaps that is additional evidence of this phenomenon at work?


Yes, I vaguely recall that. An odd phenomenon in its own right...

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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:55 pm

One wonders if C14 decay rates are affected in the same way. If so, C14 dating may shortly be a dead science. IE, if the "standard clock" isn't so "standard," what then?

Just a thought.
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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby rangerover777 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:11 pm

Sorry to deviate a bit from the thread subject but I cannot agree more with Michael about
the C14 dating, which remind me that when I was a boy I had a ball made of many colored
aluminum foils that wrapped the sweets I consumed, and I truly believed that this
ball could answer all my questions and show me my dreams…. Well that’s more or
less the case of C14 dating.

The short explanation for this method of answering “How old is…?” starts with the theory
that when cosmic rays hits the earth atmosphere and collide with atoms creating a secondary
ray in the form of energetic neutron and these collide w/ Nitrogen-14 atoms which turns into
Carbon-14 and Hydrogen atoms (Carbon Dioxide). Then the plants absorb it through the
Photosynthesis, we and other life eat it and then we die (or the other bio life), and then the
C-14 starts to decay (since it’s a radioactive matter), at a “constant rate” which when measured
off a dead (once lived) cells, could be calculated when the death occur…. Take some air….

Ok, these comic rays are divided to two categories :
1. The low to moderate energies - which we think we understand.
2. The high energy, high velocity - which we admit we do not understand.

So how it was determined the way C-14 is form in the atmosphere by the cosmic rays and
not by other route , that’s a mystery by itself.
- If billions of cosmic rays are hitting us every minute, why they do not collide with the atoms
of the dead cells and change the C-14 to something else ?
- The photosynthesis process in plants was not really figured out since if it was the case LIGHT
from the sun would considered MATTER - but it’s not.
- It seems as a rule that all types of radioactive matters are emitting radiation due to imbalance
in the amount of radiation they absorbed - in many ways. The rate in which they release this
radiation depending on many factors, and it’s not constant.
- And lastly, I think the Atom structure needs a re-visit (but this is my opinion).

As it seems, this whole method was built on thin shaky posts that could collapse with the next
“discovery”, but at least we can tell how old is….


Cheers
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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby substance » Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:05 pm

Wow, I didn`t know Carbon dating is based on such shaky theories. That means that almost all of our evolution of species knowledge is based on some cosmic rays that we don`t fully understand... :shock: :| Sorry for the offtopic.
Anyway, what does the decreasing of the kilogram value have to do with nuclear decay? And by the way, what was this with the kilogram, I remember hearing of something like this, but never looked into it.
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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby nick c » Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:03 pm

substance wrote:Wow, I didn`t know Carbon dating is based on such shaky theories.

Hello substance,
Yes, Carbon dating was on shaky ground before the discovery contained within the topic of this thread. The assumption of constant carbon levels is essential for the accuracy of that dating method and this is not a given, especially under catastrophic conditions, extensive volcanic eruptions for example. Witness, the current state of industrial pollution which has changed carbon levels and would no doubt have some effect on the dating of objects from our own time by some future archeologist.
Over reliance on C14 and other radiometric decay measuring sticks can only lead to an erroneous understanding of human and geological history.
...W.F. Libby clearly saw the limitations of the method and the conditions under which his theoretical figures would be valid:
A. Of the three resevoirs of radiocarbon on earth- the atmosphere, the biosphere, and the hydrosphere, the richest is the last- the oceans with the seas. The correctness of the method depends greatly on the condition that in the last 40 or 50 thousand years the quantity of water in the hydrosphere (and carbon diluted in it) has not substantially changed.
B. The method depends, also on the condition that during the same period of time the influx of cosmic rays or energy particles coming from the stars and the sun has not suffered substantial variations.

http://www.varchive.org/ce/c14.htm


And the importance of this discovery, that [url2=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating]decay rates [/url2]vary with Earth-Sun distance casts doubt on the accuracy of geological, as well as historical (C14) dates, as much of the same logic applies to other (long range) radiometric dating methods.
It is the principal source of information about the absolute age of rocks and other geological features, including the age of the Earth itself, and can be used to date a wide range of natural and man-made materials

The significance is that decay rates are affected by environmental conditions. Under the scenarios as proposed by various planetary catastrophists these environmental influences and their variations would be extreme. The dating of the various geological ages that is taught in our universities is most certainly wrong.

[As a sidenote, most dating of ancient history does not rely on the radiocarbon technique but rather has been arrived at through the already "established" and conventionally accepted dynastic structure of ancient Egypt, with other cultures pegged to that chronology whenever possible. C14 dates are only accepted when they conform to that pre-existing structure, non conforming dates are discarded as "contaminated."
http://www.varchive.org/cor/ash/index.htm ]

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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby rangerover777 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:33 pm

Back to the thread topic,

Trying to explain the relations between the sun’s distance from earth to the decay rate of
radioactive materials, is almost like to describe the Ray of Creation, since it require analyzing
many aspects of this phenomena (if it exists at all as the article claims), and should be broken to :
1. What is radioactive radiation, how it enters matters and how the decay occur.
2. How radioactive materials behave under different circumstances.
3. What external influences, radiations, rays, particles, light, etc. the earth receiving.
4. Should external influences effect radioactive matter on earth (needs additional tests and
observations, beside the article in the beginning of this thread).
5. If some of these influences from the sun are like other external sources, how to distinct the
effect on radioactive materials.
6. The orbit of the earth around the sun (with all it’s variants). Some radiations could come
from solar flares and other activities on the sun, regardless it’s distance from earth.

Maybe I left out something, but to seriously pursue this subject, it take some research.
Since it’s an internet forum and not a Brookhaven National Labs, we are somewhat limited,
but maybe some interesting insights, sources and thinking would shade light on this phenomena.


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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby StefanR » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:48 am

rangerover777 wrote:since it require analyzing
many aspects of this phenomena (if it exists at all as the article claims), and should be broken to :
1. What is radioactive radiation, how it enters matters and how the decay occur.
2. How radioactive materials behave under different circumstances.
3. What external influences, radiations, rays, particles, light, etc. the earth receiving.
4. Should external influences effect radioactive matter on earth (needs additional tests and
observations, beside the article in the beginning of this thread).
5. If some of these influences from the sun are like other external sources, how to distinct the
effect on radioactive materials.
6. The orbit of the earth around the sun (with all it’s variants). Some radiations could come
from solar flares and other activities on the sun, regardless it’s distance from earth.


That seems like fair treatment of the subject, in a way.
Of course some research has been done concerning radioactive decay. The question is how far
are you willing to accept them. If one reads the basic stuff about it it seems to be about the absorbtion and/or emitting of certain particles and radiation.
In my opinion it seems only logical that certain high fields could influence such processes. But for me the biggest concern especially in beta-decay goes out to neutrinos.
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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby redeye » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:03 am

Thanks for the info on C14 dating Rangerover, interesting stuff. I was reading about the lack of sunspots on another thread.

Other researchers have proposed solar effects on other terrestrial processes besides cloud formation. The sunspot cycle has strong effects on irradiance in certain wavelengths such as the far ultraviolet, which affects ozone production. Natural production of isotopes such as C-14 is also tied to solar activity.


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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread postby webolife » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:48 pm

I brought up before, but would add here to RR777's listing, the possibility/likelihood that telluric currents in the crust are responsible for significant variations in radioactive decays such as U-Pb, K-Ar, et.al. There are so many known variants in the radiocarbon processes, that it is quite likely that method will never fly well past ~3000 BP, as has been repeatedly noted in this thread. And it is hardly a stretch to consider telluric currents as having an ET component such as Earth-Sun electrical connections. I'm not sold on that last statement, as I find piezoelectric interactions between/within crustal plates to be significant in themselves as potential telluric current generators. A close study of geomagnetic maps should be profitable in affirming or negating this hypothesis. Someone smarter and with more time on hand than me...
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