primitive stars found outside galaxy

[larryduane100]

In regards to primitive stars see the following:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 093251.htm

Why do metal poor stars have to be 13.7 billion years old? Why can't they be new stars that have not fused metals yet, (atoms with more than 4 protons, I assume), maybe because of less electric current out there in the interstellar void? The article style is quite a hoot, too.
larryduane100

[jjohnson]

That is an idea in mainstream astronomy based on certain assumptions, such as:
The Big Bang theory posits that the the universe began about that long ago.
Initially only hydrogen and helium formed out of the expanding admixture of particles and energy.
The first stars began to condense out of this soup, so that was all they could be made of.
Those earliest stars apparently have lasted at least 13+ billion years, and must have been evolving very slowly according to their ideas using the Herzsprung-Russell diagram of stellar "lives" - Hence, they start out low in heavier elements - "metals". This also assumes that whatever fusion processes which occur at the center of these slow-to-age stars has not been able to build up much evidence on the surface for metals.
In the course of time since the big bang, there have been successive generations of larger stars, fusing faster and creating more and more metals internally. When these fast-burners die, they ostensibly undergo a nova or supernova collapse and explode in a shower of metal-rich shells which "seed" other stars and potential stars i.e., dust clouds.

One has to ask why those older, metal-poor stars preferentially didn't get "seeded" by the nearby supernovas right along with the rest of the local population. -- Among other pointed questions.

The Electric Model does not put constraints on stellar ages, and treats any observed "migrations" from one point to another on the H-R diagram as due to a change in the strength of the currents which power the star, as contrasted with there being the hypothesized internal fusion process. Metals present in a stellar spectrum could have come from the contents present in the plasma filament from which the star was initially formed during a compressive z- or Bennet-pinching process, or as a consequence of fusion in regions of extremely high temperature on the photosphere of the star, which can be in the arc mode and provide conditions under which elements can fuse and produce heavier species. Not all stars may be profligate producers of metals, as the electric current conditions may vary from extreme at one point and barely able to keep stars emitting significant light in the visual bands at the other.

The Electric Model also does not put constraints on the age of the universe, and does not consider the big bang theory to be an accurate explanation of how the universe operates. Based on evidence, there is insufficient evidence available to support the big bang theory, and enough evidence to bring into question the whole idea. Lerner's The Big Bang Never Happened is a fun read, and goes into some detail as to why.

The recent articles on scientists discovering the real reason why a star suddenly goes supernove ("it exceeds its allowable weight limit") is just kitty litter. Airline passengers may suddenly explode when they see how much more they have to fork over when their bags exceed their weight limits, but not stars. Read The Electric Universe and The Electric Sun for a good explanation about the capacity of double layers to store immense amounts of charge, and to be able to release it at such a high rate that it is properly termed "explosive".

Metal-poor stars are simply, well, metal poor stars. "The metal-poor shall always be with you."

[Harry Costas]

G'day

Stars go through various phases of form through their evolution and one stage is a low metal count. The formation of stars along jets ejected from AGN do show low metal count, although some do collect metals as they go through the galactic space medium.

[nick c]

It probably would be beneficial to read Don Scott's webpage on "Stellar Evolution in the Electric Universe":
http://www.electric-cosmos.org/hrdiagr.htm

Nick

[Harry Costas]

G'day

On the face of it Don Scotts webpage is very convincing.

Don even compares the King and the invisible robes, not thinking that he himself may think along those lines.

Don maybe right, but I think its a mistake to hang your thoughts on one hook.

Ultra compact matter is probably the most important research studied today in explaining the ongoings of the universe.

I'm trying not to post links with ABS, but! the need to be awear of the topic is quite important.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.3216
QCD phase diagram at high temperature and density

Authors: Mei Huang
(Submitted on 19 Jan 2010)

Abstract: This article reviews recent progress of QCD phase structure, including color superconductor at high baryon density and strongly interacting quark-gluon plasma (sQGP) at high temperature created through relativistic heavy ion collision. A brief overview is given on the discovery of sQGP at RHIC. The possibility of locating the critical end point (CEP) from the property of bulk viscosity over entropy density is discussed. For the phase structure at high baryon density, the status of the unconventional color superconducting phase with mismatched pairing is reviewed. The chromomagnetic instability, Sarma instability and Higgs instability in the gapless color superconducting phase are clarified.

[nick c]

Harry,
The same magic that brought us the Big Bang, Dark Matter, and Dark Energy gave us the concept of ultra compact matter. They are all conclusions drawn from an a priori assumption that the tiny force of gravity is the only force of consequence at cosmological scales. (That is if I am understanding your use of the phrase "ultra compact matter" as referring to objects such as neutron stars, compressed white dwarfs, black holes, etc.) In the Electric Universe matter never gets compressed to such mathematical extremes because said matter becomes ionised, a plasma; theoretical extremes of gravitational compression are prevented by electrical forces which are many orders of magnitude more powerful than gravity.
Well that is my over simplified explanation, better still, read what Stephen J. Crothers has written about black holes:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblo ... jc_bhc.htm
http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblo ... ro_bhf.htm
http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblo ... others.htm

here is something on gravitational waves:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblo ... 07_sjc.htm

Nick

[Harry Costas]

G'day nick-c

The EU cannot work without the property of supersymmetry producing color-superconducting matter.

S Crothers opinion of the contexual black holes is a better explanation than the BBT main stream hoo hah.

Many Cosmologists fall in love with what ever model they get their head around.

It will be many years before I can understand even a scratch on a scratch of the information.

I hope the following link is informative.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1002.1299
How strange are compact star interiors ?

Authors: D. Blaschke, T. Klahn, R. Lastowiecki, F. Sandin
(Submitted on 5 Feb 2010)

Abstract: We discuss a Nambu--Jona-Lasinio (NJL) type quantum field theoretical approach to the quark matter equation of state with color superconductivity and construct hybrid star models on this basis. It has recently been demonstrated that with increasing baryon density, the different quark flavors may occur sequentially, starting with down-quarks only, before the second light quark flavor and at highest densities also the strange quark flavor appears. We find that color superconducting phases are favorable over non-superconducting ones which entails consequences for thermodynamic and transport properties of hybrid star matter. In particular, for NJL-type models no strange quark matter phases can occur in compact star interiors due to mechanical instability against gravitational collapse, unless a sufficiently strong flavor mixing as provided by the Kobayashi-Maskawa-'t Hooft determinant interaction is present in the model. We discuss observational data on mass-radius relationships of compact stars which can put constraints on the properties of dense matter equation of state.

[jjohnson]

We observe observational data on mass-radius relationships of compact stars which can put constraints on the properties of dense matter equations of state.

1. We observe observational data: how many compact stars are resolvable to the point that a reliable radius can be observed rather than inferred? if the radius is inferred from the mass, how is the mass obtained? Do compact stars all have the same density? Do compact stars occur with binary companions, e.g., "hot jupers" or companion stars, and orbital parameters observed and masses deduced? The term observations in this particular context seems to have a different meaning than "we know how far away the star is and have precisely measured its subtended angular extent." Are not Keplerian orbital parameters based on G, whose properties may be variable rather than constant, as originally posited by Newton?

2. If in fact there are not 'good' observations of both mass and radius, then the inferred mass-radius relationships may not put contraints on equations of state. They might, but what are the error bars associated with such conjecture?

So, I am already a little skeptical of their claims, if the foundations are as flimsy as they, at first blush, appear.

[Harry Costas]

G'day JJ

It is good to question.

I have a saying " People who stay in the circle keep going around in the cycle"

So step out and question and read up on the topic.

I do not have all the answers, no person does. We are at the steps of discovery and alot of work has been done by many scientists on the topic of compact matter, condensed matter, Kaon Condensates, supersymmetry, color-superconducting and Axion Symmetry.

The Electric Universe I think has great potential and yet falls short.
See
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... matter.htm
Feb 28, 2006
In the Dark on Matter

Is there an alternative? Yes, plasma cosmologists are waiting in the wings for working scientists to tire of the theorists’ mathematical escapades, and to think first of the things we actually know. Grant the role of electricity on a galactic scale, and the case for dark matter evaporates. Plasma physicists have successfully demonstrated the formation and dynamics of the classic spiral shape (spiral galaxy) in laboratory electrical discharges. And observations of magnetic fields in spiral galaxies match the laboratory forms, which are known to be scaleable over more than 14 orders of magnitude. The magnetic fields trace the electric currents flowing along the spiral arms of galaxies. Electromagnetic forces alone can thus produce the classic structure and rotation of ubiquitous, magnificent galactic formations. No dark matter required!

The question is:

What matter creates the Electromagnetic fields and what is its properties?

[StevenJay]

The question is:

What matter creates the Electromagnetic fields and what is its properties?

Are you sure that's even a valid question, Harry?

[jjohnson]

Well, this may sound simplistic but electric currents, aka moving charged particles, create magnetic fields. Charged particles are electrons, positrons, and ions, atoms or molecules with one or more electron or positrons added or missing. Is that what you meant by "what type of matter causes magnetic fileds?" ? even electrons or positrons revolving around a nucleus create tiny magnetic fields. Ferrite materials like bar magnets and toroids create magnetic fields, as do charge carrying wires or Birkeland currents. Magnetized plasma creates complex and dynamic magnetic fields. Or were you looking for a deeper classification of matter like hadrons and bosons, or the hypothesized WIMPs and MACHOs? I can't even begin to guess what underlying factors create charge or mass themselves, or what charge and mass represent in the real world. I just see their apparent effects. Sort of like the visible universe - we personally see a pretty small slice of the pie.

But you're absolutely right, Harry. We should try to keep up with, and keep an open but questioning mind on, current thinking in mainstream physics, for the simple reason that there's as good a chance in there that someone will come up with something useful and real to add to our knowledge, just as we think that there are useful additions to physics among the various attributes of the Electric Model of the Universe that the other side should be evaluating.

Jim

[Harry Costas]

G'day JJ

Do I think that its a good question? Yep Yep Yep

Mate, skim through some of these papers.

I do not want to influence your direction. I feel self discovery is most important.

Color-Superconducting
http://arxiv.org/find/all/1/OR+au:color ... /0/all/0/1

To investicate the dynamics of condensed matter is probably the most imortant research. They have spent billions on this research. The full understanding will open doors to the electric universe.Its nice to know how things interconnect, but we also must research the origin of such electric fields.

and when you get a chance search for Supersymmetry.

As for Black Holes and BBT, they have had their days in the never never land.

[jjohnson]

Giday, Harry

I started reading through your first reference paper and after about 5 pages just started skimming in order to find some words that I could begin to understand (with almost no luck).

I noted that at the temperatures and densities they are speaking of, where quarks more or less come unbound and both 2 and 3-quark systems in a rich variety are possible, the author speaks of a quark gluon plasma, and includes statements about 'gas' hydrodynamics and a discussion of shear and other MHD concepts together.

My concept of the term plasma is different from his, as mine is a plasma state of condensed matter [but not ultra-compact matter or ultra-hot matter] in which ions and electrons behave with normal responses to electromagnetic forces. Plasma is not gas, one of the four states of "regular" matter. It does not behave IAW MHD principals because of its electrical qualities. Quarks have fractional electric charge. I really do not understand that either.

Color superconductivity is an odd term, in that I don't understand it. Does it mean that transport or exchange of the color characteristics of quarks can "flow" or be exchanged very quickly or with almost no resistance compared with their normal charge-neutral state? How does this relate to "normal" stars, as contrasted with compact stars or black holes, neither of which have yet been observed directly, I think. How does it influence the electrical characteristics of regular condensed matter?

Rats. I'm with you, mate, but I think I understand far less at the level of quarks and gluons (which like a lot of phenomena are also merely inferred from evidence and cannot be observed directly) than the tiny amount I think I understand about stuff at our visible scale. If their research on condensed matter leads to a real understanding of charge and electric and magnetic fields and all that of which we imagine the Electric Model deals with, I hope they come up with a very good, accurate understanding which can be incorporated into the underlying fabric of our interpretation of the observations.

Until and unless I can learn more about what theoreticians are saying in papers like this I simply have no business discussing their ideas or conclusions.

[Harry Costas]

G'day JJ

I like your response, because years ago I made the same response. It took me years to understand and at the initial stages I thought it was all hoo ha and many people still think the same.

So what can I say.

Keep reading and some terms that you do not understand, go to wiki and in time you will understand.

Do not get me wrong, I think that the electric universe is the way to go.

As for Plasma, do not limit to your definition. Plasma can aslo be a Kaon Condensate, Neutron matter, quark matter and so on.

[nick c]

The latest TPOD, relevant to this thread:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00current.htm