An experiment to test the EU theory.

[J Hansford]

Serious question.

What would be the ideal and paramount experiment which would prove the Electric Universe theory as a valid concept to mainstream Astronomers?

What would the expected observations and conclusive evidence be from that experiment?

I just mention it because it is easy to talk about theories than to go out and test them. So if you were granted money enough for a launch vehicle for any payload within reason or telescope time and any other requirements that would be needed....

.....What would be the most ideal experiment for testing the hypothetical Electric Universe and what would you need and what would you be looking for and expecting to find?.... and would it convince the mainstream Astronomy club/cliche?

[tayga]

That’s not a bad question. I’ve often considered it myself although I don’t have a definitive answer.

I’d suggest that the Electric Sun aspect of EU would be a good place to look. If basic assumptions about the universe are correct the Sun is a model for all stars. It is accessible to current methods of exploration and there are certainly qualitative claims of the Electric Sun model that ought to be testable.

I’d suggest a probe to overfly the solar poles to look for inward flow of current. I have to admit I’m not sure how this would be measured but I don’t see anything in the nuclear fusion model that would predict it whereas it is a fundamental property of an Electric Sun.

I don't know what would convince mainstream Astronomy. Paradigms break catastrophically and I'm not sure we can predict when this one will finally collapse.

[nick c]

hi J Hansford,

What would the expected observations and conclusive evidence be from that experiment?

This is the essence of science, testing through observation and experiments, that can falsify a particular theory. [Of course, no theory can be "proven" true in the absolute sense.]
The ability of a theory to predict future observations or experimental results is of importance in judging a theory. In this regard the Thunderbolts website has a list of EU predictions:
pending:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/predictions_pending.htm
confirmed:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/predictions.htm

If you are looking for the "big one" that comfirms or falsifies the total EU package, I don't think that is going to happen overnight. That is, it does not seem likely that some specific observation made by a Nasa spacecraft, for example, is going to cause Tim Thompson or Tom Bridgman to throw their arms in the air and declare, "we were wrong about the Electric Universe! let's start over from scratch!" the system just does not seem to work that way, because it involves a whole new way (paradigm shift) of looking at the universe. At least that's my opinion

That being said, some observations that would lend strong support for the EU (other than those linked above):
-discovery of a stellar system where the planets or companion star(s) are in a non gravitational polar alignment
-an undisputable observation of a star fissioning into two stars, (or planets)
-a nearby star, Sirius for example, radically changing it's stellar type (HR diagram) before our eyes
and so on...
These would still not be the coup de gras that you are looking for, as mainstream would no doubt, force fit and accomodate the new discoveries into their paradigm.

Nick

[MrAmsterdam]

What would the expected observations and conclusive evidence be from that experiment?

I just mention it because it is easy to talk about theories than to go out and test them. So if you were granted money enough for a launch vehicle for any payload within reason or telescope time and any other requirements that would be needed....

.....What would be the most ideal experiment for testing the hypothetical Electric Universe and what would you need and what would you be looking for and expecting to find?.... and would it convince the mainstream Astronomy club/cliche?

Lets take meteors and astroids as example.
I need lots of money for my probe send out to observe an astroid or meteor upclose. Forget that telescope.
Sensors we need and lots of them! Sensors in the electromagnetic field, magnetic field and electric field and in all frequency ranges. And maybe some gravity sensor.

Why? Will we see plasma phenomena? Or is gravity the only force at work here?


second experiment; gravity against the rest of the natural forces. Is light bend by gravity or another force?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_g ... by_the_Sun

I wonder if light can be deflected by traveling through a plasma field( magnetic, electromagnetic and electric fields).
Whoops, just found a link with an answer and description of the experiment that goes with it....

I wasn't far out;

It is therefore much more likely that the propagation of electromagnetic waves (for example light -mrAmsterdam) is, by their very nature, only affected by electromagnetic fields.

Plasma Theory of 'Gravitational Lensing' of Light

http://www.plasmaphysics.org.uk/research/lensing.htm

Take this as your guide; lab experiments against models with black matter and black energy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism

[Ion01]

What would be the ideal and paramount experiment which would prove the Electric Universe theory as a valid concept to mainstream Astronomers?

I would venture to say that there is no experiment that would prove EU as a valid concept to mainstream astronomers. If you just take a quick look at guys like Birkeland, Bostik, and peratt they have produced more experiments than mainstream has even thought of doing with their own theories. When is the last time mainstream made a barred galaxy in a lab? How about solar flairs and the rings of saturn? How about actually replicating the craters we find on the moon and other bodies? And this is just for starters. You will find as you go through life that some people will litterally deny the evidence or clear truth even after being smacked in the face with it. I am not saying that there still aren't things to be proven and discovered and such, regarding EU, but even if we had all the proof and experiments in the world that wouldn't be enough for some. Why do you think there is still a flat earth society?

[Siggy_G]

I would like to see plasma experiments towards materializing and energy cycles.

- Can magnetic fields and electric currents, z-pinches, cause atoms to form larger molecular structures?
- Can dusty plasma clump together into spherical shapes?
- Can spherical plasmoids sustain a radiant process, if fed with electric currents?
- How would a variable electric current affect the plasmoid? (scale, temperature, radiation etc.)
- Would it be possible to obtain a small scale cycle of energy transfer, between radiated energy and pinched energy? (birkeland current -> pinch/plasmoid -> electromagnetic radiation)

Of course, I'm hinting at making small scale EU stars and galactical systems.

[jjohnson]

Eric Lerner's focus fusion experiment looks very similar in scope (including being a small scale lab demonstration) in which an input pulse of current creates a pinching field as it transforms from a current sheet to filaments, which wind up to create a plasmoid, which ejects radiation and charged particles aligned with the magnetic field lines parallel to the electrodes' axis. His aim is to show that a form of fusion (with an intermediate Boron-based fission step to keep it clean, radioactively) can be created from which usable electrical energy can be harnessed, outside of the chemical carbon cycle.

see http://www.focusfusion.org to keep up with this on-going building-block set of experimental goals.

You want galaxies at small scale? Look in Anthony Peratt's writings, based on his experiments in the 1980's at Los Alamos Labs. PDFs of his papers are widely available from several plasma oriented web sites, including this one, I think. His textbook, Physics of the Plasma Universe, unfortunately is out of print and available in limited quantities (less than I have fingers, I believe, and no longer at a practical price point for nearly all of us). So far, it is the only physics book extant (to my knowledge) which heeds Alfven's warning about magnetohydrodynamics being the governing equations for cosmic plasmas, and which substitutes Maxwell's, Lorentz's and Biot-Savart's and other scientist's laws for fluidic plasma behaviors.

[Maxwell Jennings]

Some of these experiment suggestions might be doable on a medium budget, but of course most of these suggestions would take big-bucks funding.

Earth Weather:

Using various spectrum sensors in an array, including x-ray, ion, electrical, ultraviolet, infrared, magnetic, and other detectors in mapping atmospheric events, including dust devils and especially storms. Maybe a huge web of ground-based sensors across tornado alley is the best place to start on a big scale. Storm chasing is probably the beginning of this type of research.

Airborne sensors would of course add to the data and increase the details of the electrical anatomy of weather.

Adding an orbital perspective with specialized satellites to observe a storm's electrical connection to space at various altitudes would of course be the icing on the experimental cake.

Vortices:

Some areas in the world claim vortex visitations/concentrations, such as Sedona, Arizona. The above mentioned sensors with the ability to detect subtle energy signatures could be used to prove or even disprove the existence of these possibly subtle forms of atmospheric plasma discharges. This might lead to experiments to show that some paranormal activity can be attributed to at least in part to very subtle plasma discharges.

Fossils:

Test the possibility of the plasma-induced-fossil theory by placing biological materials in various minerals and then applying plasma discharges to the mix.

Geology:

Larger scale lab experiments with plasma-induced cratering, canyon, fulgurite, and Litchenburg formations.

Double Layer:

Is the double-layer surrounding the Earth in a region where satellites can orbit? If so, vertical span that double-layer (and beyond) with satellites designed to verify the electrical circuit. If not, launch sensors in a vertical column through the double layer.

Sun-Earth Circuit:

Point a string of satellites always at the sun to prove the Sun-to-Earth circuit including charge separation and the varying flows of electricity.

Comets:

Park a probe on a comet or at least follow a comet closely for continual data collection with the aforementioned sensor array.

[TalonThorn]

I suspect the ideal experiment would be something like shorting out the sun. That way, once the experiment proves that EU is right there won't be any dissenters to deal with.

[earls]

Haha, I'm with you on that one Talon.

[Adolfo Giurfa]

We should go to the source of the theory. What is it an electrical universe?. Electricity is a phenomenon that happens when two opposite charges (forces) are separated, generating a third one, the resultant, a lever, electricity itself, which in turn generates a fourth, a magnetic field . Well, that law you find it everywhere in traditional knowledge: From the theory of numbers to the I-Ching. Nothing more is needed.

[MrAmsterdam]

What is it an electrical universe?

What proof do you want more?

http://www.physorg.com/news159720322.html

Space tornadoes are rotating plasmas of hot, ionized gas flowing at speeds of more than a million miles per hour, far faster than the 200 m.p.h. winds of terrestrial tornadoes, according to Andreas Keiling, a research space physicist at the University of California, Berkeley's Space Sciences Laboratory.

Both terrestrial and space tornadoes consist of funnel-shaped structures. Space tornadoes, however, generate huge amounts of electrical currents inside the funnel. These currents flow along twisted magnetic field lines from space into the ionosphere where they power several processes, most notably bright auroras such as the Northern Lights, Keiling said.

While these intense currents do not cause any direct harm to humans, on the ground they can damage man-made structures, such as power transformers.

The THEMIS spacecraft observed these tornadoes, or "flow vortices," at a distance of about 40,000 miles from Earth. Simultaneous measurements by THEMIS ground observatories confirmed the tornadoes' connection to the ionosphere.

http://themis.ssl.berkeley.edu/news.shtml
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/themi ... index.html

Themis observation

aurora