Voyagers and the EU

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ttsoares
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Voyagers and the EU

Unread post by ttsoares » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:19 pm

Is this aligned with the EU model about the heliopause ?

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... llar-space

I remember that Thornhill talks a lot about how the conventional model of this transition zone is wrong and the EU explanations do fit the data...
Last edited by nick c on Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: spelling correction to thread title

seasmith
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Re: Voyager MAG readings

Unread post by seasmith » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:17 pm

ttsoares wrote:Is this aligned with the EU model about the heliopause ?

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... llar-space

I remember that Thornhill talks a lot about how the conventional model of this transition zone is wrong and the EU explanations do fit the data...
Is there a typo in the third to last paragraph of the article where it says,
The MAG shows that the magnetic field strength decreases sharply in the interstellar medium.
??

The graph provided indicates differently, as does this Physics Today article from Feb 15, 2019. Or are they just ignoring the the year or two crossing (presumably) the heliopause ?
https://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/1 ... 215a/full/

Apparently the question of Interstellar Magnetic Field direction is once again all over the place too.
Some of those earlier IBEX and other solar system related EU Forum threads may need to be revisited, as learned and published white papers are being shredded and disavowed all over the galaxy as well.

Oh well, there's always Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe.

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neilwilkes
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Re: Voyager MAG readings

Unread post by neilwilkes » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:48 am

seasmith wrote: Oh well, there's always Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe.
Don't Panic - but it is actually The Hitch-Hikers Guide to The Galaxy......
(with apologies, but I could not resist)
You will never get a man to understand something his salary depends on him not understanding.

celeste
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Re: Voyager MAG readings

Unread post by celeste » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:57 pm

seasmith wrote: Apparently the question of Interstellar Magnetic Field direction is once again all over the place too.
Some of those earlier IBEX and other solar system related EU Forum threads may need to be revisited, as learned and published white papers are being shredded and disavowed all over the galaxy as well.
.
Yes, the whole IBEX interpretation was wrong from the start. They had so many assumptions, right or wrong, it was hard to know where to begin. First, they say those neutral particles started as ions, that picked up electrons at a key point in their spiraling along the background magnetic field,and were flung into the inner solar system. It’s that idea that allowed them to “determine” the background magnetic field direction.

That assumes that those neutrals started as ions (where is the evidence of recombination?). Also, assumes that there was no electric field to accelerate those ions. Also, assumes the ions were already streaming from a fixed direction (ions spiraling along a magnetic field would have to have a fixed direction AND energy, for the recombined neutrals to leave on that same tight path.). Etc.

If all their assumptions are correct, then they were measuring the magnetic field direction. If even one assumption is wrong, then then the magnetic field direction derived from the IBEX model is wrong.

Michael Mozina
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Re: Voyager MAG readings

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:21 am

celeste wrote:
seasmith wrote: Apparently the question of Interstellar Magnetic Field direction is once again all over the place too.
Some of those earlier IBEX and other solar system related EU Forum threads may need to be revisited, as learned and published white papers are being shredded and disavowed all over the galaxy as well.
.
Yes, the whole IBEX interpretation was wrong from the start. They had so many assumptions, right or wrong, it was hard to know where to begin. First, they say those neutral particles started as ions, that picked up electrons at a key point in their spiraling along the background magnetic field,and were flung into the inner solar system. It’s that idea that allowed them to “determine” the background magnetic field direction.

That assumes that those neutrals started as ions (where is the evidence of recombination?). Also, assumes that there was no electric field to accelerate those ions. Also, assumes the ions were already streaming from a fixed direction (ions spiraling along a magnetic field would have to have a fixed direction AND energy, for the recombined neutrals to leave on that same tight path.). Etc.

If all their assumptions are correct, then they were measuring the magnetic field direction. If even one assumption is wrong, then then the magnetic field direction derived from the IBEX model is wrong.
I always appreciate the common sense and practical approach aspect to your comments. You usually teach me something too and explain it simply. You tend to zero in on the core assumptions pretty succinctly.

It is a bit misguided to focus exclusively on the neutral particles hitting a random satellite when you're living in an electric universe. It would be pretty easy to miss all the important particle flow patterns going on.

jacmac
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Re: Voyages and the EU

Unread post by jacmac » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:32 am

I have seen, but cannot now find, an illustration of the heliospheric current sheet(Parker Spiral) that gets very vertically wavy out near the heliosphere boundry.
Would not that shape, if correct, cause confusion about the magnetic field orientation out near the Heliopause ?
Jack
Perhaps someone has seen this illustration and can post it ?

kmcook
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Re: Voyages and the EU

Unread post by kmcook » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:23 pm

Jacmac
Perhaps someone has seen this illustration and can post it ?

Maybe this one...?
https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/he ... ent-sheet/

jacmac
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Re: Voyages and the EU

Unread post by jacmac » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:43 pm

Thanks, No.
That is relatively close to The sun.
The one I have seen is that one, but extended, to show the curves becoming taller and much closer together
in the outer solar system.

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nick c
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Re: Voyagers and the EU

Unread post by nick c » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:30 pm


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The Great Dog
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Re: Voyagers and the EU

Unread post by The Great Dog » Wed May 08, 2019 9:21 am

The heliosheath is now known to be a sphere and not a teardrop, based on IBEX data.

This is an animation of the heliospheric current sheet:

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/vis/a010000/a ... _59,94.mov

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Cargo
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Re: Voyagers and the EU

Unread post by Cargo » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:09 pm

Today I read it was announced that V2 has reached Interstellar Space. What I found most interesting the juxtaposition of words. It was said to go from the 'hot low-density' of the Heliopause, to the 'cold high-density' interstellar region.

Doesn't that seem strange? I mean when we look at plasma density, or electron density, around the solar surface, or even better Saturn, you would never see hot with low, and cold with high?

So if we remove the temperature pseudo speak, and just think of density, this gives a picture of quite a different thing. That the interstellar medium is highly, massively on scale/volume, much higher electric density, then the heliosphere, our Solar System. The Atmosphere of the Sun, protecting the whole System from the very powerful interstellar plasma, just like the Earth from the Sun and it's Solar "Wind".

Long Live the Voyagers!
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes

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paladin17
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Re: Voyagers and the EU

Unread post by paladin17 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:14 am

Cargo wrote:when we look at plasma density, or electron density, around the solar surface, or even better Saturn, you would never see hot with low, and cold with high?
If you look at solar wind plasma, that's exactly what you see: hot and rarefied fast solar wind and colder and denser slow solar wind.

Cargo
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Re: Voyagers and the EU

Unread post by Cargo » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:18 pm

I don't mean the wind, but the bodies themselves. Perhaps I should fetch some references.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes

Cargo
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Re: Voyagers and the EU

Unread post by Cargo » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:20 pm

Okay, so briefly, what I was seeing too much of was the same curve graph that looks like every other plot from every other plasma boundary. They all don't conform to a common axis configuration. Whether it's Earth, sunspots, Saturn, etc.. And then when I remember the way plasma scales, the temperature words I just threw out. And of course, I didn't realize just how hot the LISM is. Fascinating.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes

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pils
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voyager 2 discovers further unexpected stuff

Unread post by pils » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:21 am

My apologies if I've posted this in the wrong place but thought you might want to know and correct/comment upon the content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4eg95rG18M

forgot to put this link in:

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/ ... ts-excited

because of this para:
"Scientists speculate that one day we may be able to create something called the Alcubierre Warp Drive, which sounds like something from Star Trek, but has a basis in reality. The warp drive would not so much propel a spacecraft as it would manipulate space itself, compressing it ahead of the spacecraft and stretching it behind, riding a “warp bubble” to achieve faster than light speeds."
........................................................................................
When I think of something clever to say I'll write it here.

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