Generating ongoing Electric Asymmetry in an EU

[Robbie_G]

Gravity is mass dependant and considered a constant force because of this stability(so it never dissipates). Electrical asymmetry is the cause of electrical energy moving again towards symmetry and if not maintained by a cause will dissipate.
So how is the electrical asymmetry being established and maintained in an electric universe? It would seem that any energy potential is being rapidly exhausted and that if an ongoing source cannot be described, then the EU theory has serious flaws.

[Zyxzevn]

The EU does not deny gravity. There are some alternative theories about gravity, but there is still gravity.

EU = gravity + electromagnetism.
Mainstream = gravity + fairy tales.

The EU sees electromagnetism as the driving force behind the formations of galaxies, solar systems,
and stars. These cause most of the CHANGE in the other wise stable environments.

Strong charge separation can be caused by nuclear reactions. In stable stars, this
might cause a continuous static charge between planets. And on galaxy-level, between stars.
The charge separation is relatively stable due to the large distances in a near vacuum.

But in a near vacuum any gassy material becomes plasma. This means that the atoms get separated into
ions and electrons. The behaviour of this plasma is treated too simple in mainstream.
Plasma can have very complex behaviour, but it is simplified in a way that
it does not match reality any more. Look up "magnetic reconnection" for example.
EU sees plasma as much more complex.

One of the interesting behaviours of plasma are "Birkeland currents", which are causing the auroras
on our planets. In it we see that plasma can form layers. These layers are of different charges and
can cross large distances. It sometimes seems to work just like lightning.
Such large plasma streams can sometimes transfer a lot of electromagnetic energy to the planets.
This might have caused many craters on Mars during extreme violent times.
It also seems responsible for strong weather events, and large earth-quakes.
The sun can wipe out our civilization in one flare. That is how strong it is.

[Michael Mozina]

Gravity is mass dependant and considered a constant force because of this stability(so it never dissipates). Electrical asymmetry is the cause of electrical energy moving again towards symmetry and if not maintained by a cause will dissipate.
So how is the electrical asymmetry being established and maintained in an electric universe? It would seem that any energy potential is being rapidly exhausted and that if an ongoing source cannot be described, then the EU theory has serious flaws.

There are a lot of potential explanations to your question by the way. Essentially in Alfven's PC model, every sun was a fusion generator, and they're all "wired together" and capable of sharing energy. All suns are also homopolar generators that turn rotational energy back into electricity over time. In his "bang" type theory, there was an energy conversion taking place between matter and antimatter too. It essentially depends on what you perceive the 'power source(s)' to be.

Birkeland's solar model was also internally powered so it would work pretty much like Alfven's model.

Jeurgen's solar model power source would require a bit more elaboration as to where the bulk of electrical energy is coming from if not from each sun.

My own "pet" theory is that the universe is nearly perfect at "recycling" matter/energy over time, and the neutron is the primary particle involved in that recycling process. For all I know the universe is infinite and eternal.

http://arxiv.org/abs/nucl-th/0511051

[comingfrom]

A battery is a power source, a potential difference. But without a circuit, nothing happens.
The difference between a galactic center and intergalactic space is a huge potential difference, and natural circuits are set up so that currents flow throughout the galaxy providing the energy to light up the stars.
~Paul

[Robbie_G]

All energy is the result of asymmetry. Energy is simply the description of how the universe moves from an initial state of asymmetry back towards symmetry. If the universe was perfectly symmetrical, then there would be nothing because all opposing forces would cancel each other out and nothingness would result; a complete lack of energy and matter!
So again with the electrical force being so powerful how can a perpetual state of electrical asymmetry be maintained over time? Something must be renewing it as it naturally extinguishes itself!
The EU, is it suggesting a perpetual motion machine? ~It's not an original concept and has been falsified over and over again!

[comingfrom]

The space between the "transistors" recharges the system.

Take an ion, for example, which just managed to escape from Proxima Centauris' plasmasphere. It expended most of it's energy escaping (breaking through the double layer of the plasmasphere), but then found itself in the field carrying it towards Sol. The field is an accelerator, and our ion has a decade or so of continuous acceleration before it reaches Sol's plasmasphere. Voyager detects the incoming ion and tells us it is now a high energy cosmic ray (coming in on the magnetic highway - as NASA pr people would put it).

Perpetual motion is impossible on Earth, but what about in frictionless and resistance-free space.
Maybe energy can be stacked on effortlessly.
~Paul

[Robbie_G]

Paul,

Space has resistance defined by matter and light moving through it, it is also elastic and this is why the warping of space occurs around mass and also magnetic fields. It's fine to imagine a frictionless plane as Newton did but at the same time realize that a frictionless plane does not exist in reality! And reality is the final authority!

I already provided the answer to you on your own board, it involves the inherent asymmetry created by the dominant products of stellar fusion! Think about it, and don't take my word for it!

[jacmac]

Robbie_G said:

The EU, is it suggesting a perpetual motion machine? ~It's not an original concept and has been falsified over and over again!

The Big Bang theory is the largest perpetual motion machine around.
And not only that; the machine is picking up speed.

[Robbie_G]

So it would seem that the EU assertion is no better than any other explanation!

[jacmac]

On that point only, certainly no worse.

All the attempts to look at the edge of the universe, the beginning of the universe, the power source for the EU, etc, are all a waste of time. It reminds me of those discussions with friends at the age of 14 about if there really is a god.
These are not knowable answers.
Buckminster Fuller has said that "we are all AS GODS, and should start acting like it."

Lets figure out how the sun works ,then we can talk of bigger things.

[Robbie_G]

The EU hardly seems an adequate authority or is standard cosmology.
No worse?...well wrong is wrong! The ultimate authority is indeed reality! It seems reality is much much larger than any of the contrivances that the human mind will ever invent! Reality is not found in a book, so put away your bible too!

[jacmac]

Robbie_G says:

No worse?...well wrong is wrong!

I believe the answer among the EU community to the question of what is the prime source of Electrical Asymmetry(as you put it) is, I don't Know! I suggest it is a non answer, not a wrong answer.

[Robbie_G]

Jacmac,

True, but at least standard cosmology understands that the question has to be addressed! If you are going to change the paradigm you had better have some answers to these questions to offer because if you don't you are not even in the game ,and who will take you seriously?
Arguing about the validity of Maxwell's work, Relativity, Stellar Fusion, or Newton's Gravitation is all well enough but you had better have a model to replace it with, and at least be able to show you comprehend these standard ideas.
When waiting for the EU answers, all their is is "Silence!" Any EU model is going to have to be as complete as the standard model and at least as coherent, otherwise go home! Gaping gaps in the model are not going to convince anyone of anything unless it was written in the bible, but that's another story(magic and miracles)!

[comingfrom]

I think it is easy to imagine the current situation, how energy is being continuously recycled.

There are huge asymmetries everywhere, between inside of galaxies, and in between the galaxies,
and between inside stellar systems, and in between the stellar systems.
Charge separations are continuously occurring, and discharges are continuously occurring.

A steady state of unsteadiness.

Space has resistance defined by matter and light moving through it, , it is also elastic and this is why the warping of space occurs around mass and also magnetic fields. It's fine to imagine a frictionless plane as Newton did but at the same time realize that a frictionless plane does not exist in reality! And reality is the final authority!

Space also has currents. Which have electrical inductance.

I was talking of particles that are being accelerated. I agree they cannot reach c.
If these particles are ions, they are what is creating the magnetic fields too.

Space isn't elastic or warping, (well, it is not supposed to be, being our frame of reference)
but electric and magnetic fields cause ions to take curved trajectories.

~Paul

[Robbie_G]

Paul,

Electric currents are a part of the universe and not even a fundamental quality. They are a result of charge separation, not the cause of it and so they are a secondary phenomena. Just because the sun displays Birkeland Currents does not mean stellar processes are not the result of nuclear fusion reactions. Birkeland currents are just a byproduct of the stellar fusion process and I have already described one source without getting into em induction or Van De Graaff like frictions or claiming it's all "Plasma" and therefore electrical.

Obviously space has physical properties otherwise the physical world would not be related to it. We have a speed of light in space, in water, in diamonds, and in glass. Space is just as valid a physical entity as any other and is fundamentally related to if not the source of all physical reality.

Hey, you might like this link, let me know what you think of it!
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Wolff-Wav ... Matter.htm

~Robert