Gravity Waves

[Solar]

Blind injection simulations...?

Was it surprising that Initial LIGO didn't detect any gravitational waves?

Not really. We study the behavior of our detectors intensely and, when we are taking data, we perform what we call "blind injections". This is when a few people in our collaboration secretly add a fake signal into the data coming out of the detector, to test whether we can find the signal and that we understand the instrument properly. During a science run of the initial LIGO experiment, a signal was seen that looked like a binary merger at a distance of about 60 - 180 million light years, coming from the direction of the constellation Canis Major (the signal was later called the "Big Dog"). The collaboration proceeded to do the full analysis and check everything over and over, then wrote a paper claiming the first detection. Only then was it revealed that the signal was a blind injection! While that might be a little disappointing, it shows that we were prepared and understand the instruments enough to be confident that they work as expected. - LIGO Scientific Collaboration

The “blind injections” was an excellent idea. Its just a 'fire drill'. There are some one-thousand individuals involved in this effort after all. With as delicate and sensitive as the instrumentation and measurements are and with such a large scale the project - it was most wise that this technique was utilized.

If you’ve never had to coordinate several people in an effort towards some goal making sure that everyone simply performed their specific function, and that the processes to be enacted also functioned properly, then I would not recommend being suspicious of such a thing.

The goal was to ensure that the entire networked team and equipment functioned as one coordinated processes; not as a gaggle of random individuals spread worldwide. The blind injections can be likened to a practice drill or double-blind test to garner some impartiality and to test the entire integrated network of processes as an integrated working ‘machine’. That is all there is to it.

[Zyxzevn]

Reddit IAMA, they will be active for 3 days:
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ ... on_and_we/

[Solar]

Now they match it with a certain Gamma Ray Burst.
http://gammaray.nsstc.nasa.gov/gbm/publ ... eprint.pdf

..presence of a weak transient source above 50 keV, 0.4 s after the GW event.

Rare terrestrial natural sources produce gamma rays that are not of a nuclear origin, such as lightning strikes and terrestrial gamma-ray flashes. Additionally, gamma rays are produced by a number of astronomical processes in which very high-energy electrons are produced.

Cosmic rays? Or lightning from the sun?

Well, finding electromagnetic counterparts to the GRB's is part of the goal:

It is not just those impatient for the first direct detection of gravitational waves who are interested in the Advanced LIGO and Advanced Virgo observing plans. Many other astronomers are also keen to look for an explosion (or its afterglow) that accompanies a gravitational-wave event. These explosions are called electromagnetic counterparts, as observations are made with electromagnetic radiation (such as visible light, radio or gamma-rays) as well as with gravitational radiation (gravitational waves). The detection of both electromagnetic and gravitational radiation from the same source enables a more complete understanding of the physics, and simultaneous observations like these are called multi-messenger astronomy. Some gravitational-wave sources, like merging neutron stars, may come with an accompanying electromagnetic signal while others, like merging black holes, probably do not (although that would make it more exciting if an electromagnetic counterpart were discovered). – LIGO: Planning For Tomorrow

The future portends that people will have the Electric Universe and the Gravitational Universe all rolled up into one ball of scientific effort! Is that possible? I shall name it The Universe.

Anyways: Fermi is going to have a significant role obviously. From the paper you've referenced: "GBM detectors register signal counts directly from a source and also record a source signal from gamma rays scattering in the Earth's atmosphere, with a magnitude determined by the source-Earth-detector geometry". That paper goes a lot further into the details of how the sources can be approximated and/or pinpointed directly. Only one NaI detector had “a favorable Earth-viewing angle.” – at 39 degrees. Yet, that one detector “registered the lowest signal above background of any detector, suggesting that whatever the source direction, the atmospheric component was not large.”

Another transient occurred but "the event is compatible with an origin near the galactic center, well separated from the LIGO localization region." Section 2.7. Possible origins for GW150914-GBM addresses GR from terrestrial lightning and the energetic qualities thereof. Like the remaining detectors; they needed to continue looking skyward:

Where the Gravitational Waves Came From

The Fermi doc is very a very good reference. I certainly hope that every GW event from henceforth with all detectors across the globe has as much information to cross check.

[Solar]

Perhaps one day, upon regularly finding the electromagnetic counterparts to gravitational wave signals, the inevitable merger of the Electric Universe and the Gravitational Universe might look similar to this November 07, 2014 Max-Plank article : "Lightning flashes from a black hole"

Or maybe this 13 Nov, 2014 Universe Today article: Radio Galaxy With Black Hole Has ‘Fierce Electrical Thunderstorm’ Raging In Its Depths

Science Daily perhaps?: Astronomers discover first 'lightning' from a black hole

Relevant Paper: Very high-energy gamma-ray emission from IC 310

[Pi sees]

Miles Mathis has an article about this latest alleged gravity wave detection. Basically he reckons that what LIGO really detected was an interaction between the lasers and electrons in the mirrors.

[D_Archer]

Miles Mathis has an article about this latest alleged gravity wave detection. Basically he reckons that what LIGO really detected was an interaction between the lasers and electrons in the mirrors.

In fact, from the strain alone we can tell that the signal isn't
caused by any motion of the mirrors as a whole: it is caused by motion within the mirrors. It is
basically a signal of the light interacting with the electrons themselves. Since the frequency is 128
Hz at .42 seconds, that is a frequency of about 300 at one second, and that corresponds to a wavelength
of about 105
meters. Well, how long is the antenna? Oh, that's right, it's around 104
meters (the light
has to travel up and back, so the length is doubled). We may then assume the effective wavelength of
the electrons inside the mirrors is something above 1m, which, when multiplied by the wavelength of
the tunnel, gives us a resonance on the order of 300 HZ

Regards,
Daniel

[Roshi]

Question: what portion of the sky did the gravity waves experiment survey? If it was a big portion, does that mean these things are very rare, (happened only once) and they were very lucky?

Or did they point their equipment to certain area?

[viscount aero]

Gravity WAVES Imply a medium. So they're prepared to call spacetime a medium now? Sounds like the aether. If so what is spactime made of and are they now prepared to declare a new state of matter, ergo, "spacetime". Waves need a medium to travel through. Also how do they get around Newton's instantaneouos gravity issue?

[Solar]

Miles Mathis has an article about this latest alleged gravity wave detection. Basically he reckons that what LIGO really detected was an interaction between the lasers and electrons in the mirrors.

In fact, from the strain alone we can tell that the signal isn't
caused by any motion of the mirrors as a whole: it is caused by motion within the mirrors. It is
basically a signal of the light interacting with the electrons themselves. Since the frequency is 128
Hz at .42 seconds, that is a frequency of about 300 at one second, and that corresponds to a wavelength
of about 105
meters. Well, how long is the antenna? Oh, that's right, it's around 104
meters (the light
has to travel up and back, so the length is doubled). We may then assume the effective wavelength of
the electrons inside the mirrors is something above 1m, which, when multiplied by the wavelength of
the tunnel, gives us a resonance on the order of 300 HZ

Regards,
Daniel

I didn't read that but: Is this saying that light from two different lasers, at two different locations, just happened to interact with the electrons of the two different sets of mirrors for the array at Ligo Hanford by Richton Washington and the other array Ligo Livingston in Louisiana within 7 milliseconds of each other?? The LIGO locations operate in unison but they're two totally independent locations.

How does this account for the two locations receiving the same basic "chirp" with a delay?

[querious]

Miles Mathis has an article about this latest alleged gravity wave detection. Basically he reckons that what LIGO really detected was an interaction between the lasers and electrons in the mirrors.

In fact, from the strain alone we can tell that the signal isn't
caused by any motion of the mirrors as a whole: it is caused by motion within the mirrors. It is
basically a signal of the light interacting with the electrons themselves. Since the frequency is 128
Hz at .42 seconds, that is a frequency of about 300 at one second, and that corresponds to a wavelength
of about 105
meters. Well, how long is the antenna? Oh, that's right, it's around 104
meters (the light
has to travel up and back, so the length is doubled). We may then assume the effective wavelength of
the electrons inside the mirrors is something above 1m, which, when multiplied by the wavelength of
the tunnel, gives us a resonance on the order of 300 HZ

Regards,
Daniel

I didn't read that but: Is this saying that light from two different lasers, at two different locations, just happened to interact with the electrons of the two different sets of mirrors for the array at Ligo Hanford by Richton Washington and the other array Ligo Livingston in Louisiana within 7 milliseconds of each other?? The LIGO locations operate in unison but they're two totally independent locations.

How does this account for the two locations receiving the same basic "chirp" with a delay?

Solar,
The screed by Mathis doesn't mention the delay, or the fact of 2 identical, info rich signals, because, as usual, he's is so utterly clueless about what he's talking about. Even tho he shows the graphs side-by-side, he keeps talking about a single interferometer, and I can't see where he's even aware there were 2 of them! I read his "article" for entertainment value, but it's abundantly clear he doesn't understand the experiment at all.

However, my favorite line of all was this...

They can't do real physics, so the only thing left is this highly promoted pretend physics.

The irony is just too much!

[Zyxzevn]

Before placing criticism, it is good to understand the very complex system of LIGO.
The basis of LIGO is an interferometer that detects the changes in phase between two directions.
Each arm is a Fabry-Perot cavity. It means that light bounces forth and back inside the arms a large number
of times, before it enters the interferometer. This gives a measurable photon pressure on the mirrors.
The system has all kinds of components to reduce noise from ground movement, like earth quakes.
The mirrors have to be adjusted continuously. The seismic isolation subsystem. Etc.
All these systems have measuring instruments that control the adjustments.
To avoid obvious problems the LIGO has detectors for well known signals.
It is a very complex and very sensitive system.

Based on the fact that most of general relativity (GR) is considered debunked (see elsewhere on the forum),
I still assume that these "gravity waves" detection is something else.
Let me first assume that the system has not been hacked by a student or injected by someone else.

There are hundreds of things that can produce these "chirp" signals.

Things like an engine, air-conditioning or a computer fan is a local signal. I rule these out too, because
the signal has been found at two places almost simultaneously. And I have not seen this signal more often.

More cosmic signals with a "chirp" signal are that of electrical discharges, solar flares, and even
some impacts might produce such signals. The day before, the sun was sending a solar storm to earth that
even caused some damage. There was an earth-quake, a new moon, and there were comets falling into
the sun.

In the reports I have not seen any mentioning of the influence of the sun, while
it is one of the major contributors to gravity in this solar system.
After asking some LIGO graduate, I found out that there is no magnetic shielding at all at the pipes.
There was a magneto meter, but I wonder what its sensitivity would be.
He did not say anything about the sun's magnetic storm.

So let me start with the hypothesis that charged particles from the sun made contact with earth.
These particles were in groups similar to the "chirp" pattern.
These moving particles created a large scale weak magnetic field.

This weak magnetic field causes the faraday effect.
The faraday effect rotates the polarisation of light.
This effect is larger due to the Fabry-Perot cavities.
The rotation of the polarisation changes the interference of the light.
-> This is the only thing I am not certain of, and it can be tested for Fabry-Perot cavities.

Now we see a signal at the detectors.
Due to all the filters and corrections, this signal is made more like the "chirp" that they were looking for.
Except it behaves slightly different and is much shorter. It

So the idea is that they effectively made a very sensitive magnetometer.

While I am not fully certain of this hypothesis, it is one that I find now the most likely.

But there is another plausible explanation:

Another strange thing is that first run started at:
On, Friday, September 18th 2015, the first official 'observing run' (O1) of LIGO's advanced detectors in Hanford WA and Livingston LA quietly began when the clock struck 8 a.m. Pacific time.
And:
The gravitational waves were detected on September 14, 2015

This might suggest that there instruments were not fully calibrated. And a complex
system like LIGO can create feed-back loops with "chirp" signals.

[Morphix]

The paper indicated that the origin area of the sky was 600 degrees. The moon occupues 1/2 degree, so equivalent to an area occuped by 1,200 moons.

[Pi sees]

Miles Mathis has an article about this latest alleged gravity wave detection. Basically he reckons that what LIGO really detected was an interaction between the lasers and electrons in the mirrors.

I didn't read that but: Is this saying that light from two different lasers, at two different locations, just happened to interact with the electrons of the two different sets of mirrors for the array at Ligo Hanford by Richton Washington and the other array Ligo Livingston in Louisiana within 7 milliseconds of each other?? The LIGO locations operate in unison but they're two totally independent locations.

How does this account for the two locations receiving the same basic "chirp" with a delay?

The two arrays would have had to have been set up and modified as similarly as possible. This would explain the 7 millisecond discrepancy.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Another strange thing is that first run started at:
On, Friday, September 18th 2015, the first official 'observing run' (O1) of LIGO's advanced detectors in Hanford WA and Livingston LA quietly began when the clock struck 8 a.m. Pacific time.
And:
The gravitational waves were detected on September 14, 2015

This might suggest that there instruments were not fully calibrated. And a complex
system like LIGO can create feed-back loops with "chirp" signals.

I found one source that mentioned that they were still in the test phase when they got the signal not the official experimental phase.

[Michael Mozina]

I found one source that mentioned that they were still in the test phase when they got the signal not the official experimental phase.

This brings up a key point. It's pretty obvious that there is a race between the Bicep folks and the LIGO folks to claim first 'dibs' on finding gravity waves. The pressure seems to be on for both of them to perform, so the race to "sigma 5+" is driven by that specific motive.

It's pretty clear that if you've only turned on your new gear for a few months, you really can't be sure what "false positives" you might observe over time. Instead of admitting this limitation, they elected to trump up a "Sigma 5+" claim to make it a "discovery", just like the Bicep team did.

The basic weakness of both the Bicep2 claims and the LIGO claims is that both teams "claimed" to have a confidence level of eliminating all other potential causes that far exceeds what they should be claiming. The Bicep2 claim of Sigma 5+ confidence bit the dust literally. The 203,000 year "false positive" rate by the LIGO team is also completely unsupportable for a new piece of equipment that has only been in operation for a few months. They pulled that number out of thin air, and it's the one part of the presentation I haven't delved into yet.

Can anyone briefly explain where they got that 203,000 year figure? It seems to be "fine tuned" to push the observation into the "discovery" category, and there is no way on Earth they can justify it based upon a few months of data collection with their new receivers.

By the way, based on what I've read thus far, I'm reasonably confident that their equipment picked up a real signal, just like I was convinced that Bicep2 observed real polarized photon patterns from space. Just as with Bicep2, my "skepticism" of the LIGO paper is directly related to the confidence claim as it relates to the elimination of other potential "false signals". In the case of BICEP2, the "most likely" cause of the polarization patterns were dust and synchrotron radiation. In the case of LIGO, the less than a second signal sure has all the earmarks of an ordinary discharge in a region that is observable from both instruments, namely the magnetosphere/ionosphere.