Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

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StefanR
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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by StefanR » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:21 pm

MGmirkin wrote:
The following is an explanation of magnetic fields from the perspective of connected monopolar, equi-charged bodies - in other words, equally charged electric field sources.
I assume that the author meant "electrically monopolar" as opposed to "magnetically monopolar," since he also talks of charged bodies.
Quite. Apologies for the confusion might it have arisen. Your assumption is well founded, as that is what I seem to have picked up from the page itself. I just had to confine my quotes from that page to a minimum, as it was my intention to make interested persons visit the page. But then again, it was stated in the quote you quoted, Michael. ;)

Junglelord wrote:It is quite clear to me there is no monopole at any level.
MGmirkin wrote:According to Maxwell, assuming he's right, I'd agree that magnetic monopoles don't exist, according the explanation I'd listed previously from another site (assuming they're right/rigorous).
--
(Except perhaps under Sansbury / Thornhill, where are are theoretically oppositely charged "subtrons" that combine to give the overall charge of the particle. But, that's a different discussion, I suppose?)
Junglelord wrote:Strictly speaking magnetic monopoles.
I really had to smile about this. Personally speaking, I agree about the magnetic monopoles and even for the sake of clarity for this thread, I also agree that the electric monopoles according to Maxwell can be understood as the electron.
But having some discussions in memory from the Future of Science thread that dealt with Maxwell as subject, there were arguments to be made about the total validity of Maxwell. Of course I'm not questioning the practical applicabillity of Maxwell's theory (how bold would that be :shock: ), but what is Maxwell's and what is the more generalized version?
Also wasn't the electron later experimentally confirmed than proposed by Maxwell?
Also I have seen some arguments from different people that would state that maybe the electron as particle is sure to exist but would doubt the monopolar structure ascribed to it? Still in limbo on that one. Anybody seen Vergil ? ;)


As what the subtrons is concerned, that would suite better in the Thornhill Gravity-thread, but one that can deserve attention.
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by junglelord » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:20 pm

While we may see electric monopoles at the level of ions, we see only electric dipoles at the level of the sub atomic units. In APM they are a combination of two distributed charges, each a dipole in its own right.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
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Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by MGmirkin » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:42 am

junglelord wrote:While we may see electric monopoles at the level of ions, we see only electric dipoles at the level of the sub atomic units.
Got a cite on that (other than APM)? Just wondering...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_dipole
An electric dipole is a separation of positive and negative charge. The simplest example of this is a pair of electric charges of equal magnitude but opposite sign, separated by some, usually small, distance.
An electric dipole is currently (in the mainstream) defined apparently as separated interacting oppositely charged particles. IE, a proton and an electron in interaction. Each individual charged particle (the electron or the proton itself) is currently considered to be an electric monopole.

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics ... opole.html

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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by junglelord » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:39 pm

I did not translate that properly did I? I meant to say that in APM the sub atomic units are made from dipoles, dual charges.
They present as electric monopoles however, as we all know.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by webolife » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:39 am

Conceptual time-out here...
How can a monpole, whether electrical or magnetic, be observed without reference to an oppositely charged element in its field? If "particles" are largely defined by their field properties, then I would propose here that there can be no phenomenal monopoles... you cannot separate a particle from its field. I'll take objections from any direction here... I'm trying to "get" this concept.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by rangerover777 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:30 pm

What is matter here is not magnetic or electric monopoles, but getting new
observations - “Get your hands dirty”, buy the materials & equipment and start
testing and experimenting, do it your way. We needs “New Footage” to edit, not
to say that Faraday, Maxwell or others where wrong, but they were human like us
with their perceptions and understanding.

I can see on this forum some great minds that could perceive anomalies and invent
new tests, in order to make a real breakthrough. Literature about electricity and
magnetism can help or deceive, but if you plan to trust other’s opinions without
do it yourself, you will always stay behind.

New observations is what matters here. Theories became too theoretical and keep
getting further and further apart from us and our reality, while we using them as
our real life experience, which of course is not the case here.

Be well

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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by webolife » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:18 pm

well said.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by Solar » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:37 pm

Dirac showed that the product of electric and magnetic charge is quantized. Since then (1931), there have been numerous searches for magnetic monopoles and, to date, there has been no definitive proof that a monopole exists...

Monopoles are predicted by the Grand Unification Theories (GUT) of the electroweak and strong interactions, as topological defects formed during the GUT phase transition [3]. Dirac [4] showed that the product of electric and magnetic charge is quantized. As the magnitude of the electrical charge, e, of an electron is known to be quantized, it follows that the magnetic charge, g, of the monopole is also quantized and has a value given by g = nc/2e = 68.5ne, where n is an integer, the reduced Planck’s constant, and c the velocity of light...

There is remarkable symmetry between electric and magnetic fields and, yet, Maxwell’s equations, which capture the essence of electromagnetism, are not symmetric with respect to electric and magnetic charge. If a monopole can be demonstrated to exist then these equations would be symmetrical. Hence, there is strong motivation to search for monopoles. These searches have indeed been carried out over the last five decades but no monopole sighting has been unambiguously established. The searches can be divided into two broad categories: cosmic monopoles, produced during GUT phase transitions, and accelerator based monopoles produced by high energy collisions between electrons or nucleons. - Search for Magnetic Monopoles at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC)
That explains the 'Why' of the existence of monopole theory. It sounds like one assumption (the 'particulate' nature of "matter") cantilevered upon another assumption (the 'monopole-like' quantized charge of the electron necessitating a quantized magnetic 'particle' pole) to make Maxwells equations "symetrical". They've been searching for 50 years with no results in an attempt to produce a Grand Unified Theory or "Theory of Everything" which seeks to also incorporate Einstein's division by zero (Ric=0) which is flawed.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by junglelord » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:20 pm

Good call and great timing.

A simple yet profound experiment, ladies and gentlemen, I give you
Faradays Paradox
THE ROTATION OF MAGNETIC FIELD



The question I asked and searched for an answer is: Does the Earth's magnetic field rotate with the planet?



Many of you will say, of course it does. But beware, before you make quick conclusions. Some findings and facts explained on this site may be new to you. So come along with me in finding an answer to this simple question.



In 1832 famous scientist Michael Faraday performed some very interesting experiments with magnets and conducting disks. Since then in most schools teachers speak of these important experiments, which started the modern era of electricity, communication and Internet. Without Faraday's discovery of electromagnetic induction, none of this would be here now.

But! It took me years before I realised, that teachers in school did tell me but just a fragment of truth about this experiments. Why?

There is one experiment that Michael performed that puzzled him and everyone in scientific community since then. It is even today called Faraday's paradox. And teachers do avoid this subject, if they know about it, for it is rather puzzling to explain.

What am I talking about?

Let us repeat those Faraday's experiments. Since seeing is believing I suggest you do the experiments yourself. It is very easy. And takes just simple materials and instruments as permanent magnet, metallic disk, and voltmeter, drilling machine. A nylon string, glue, stick, and some adhesive tape.



Let us do the experiments.

We are all very familiar with the fact that a voltage is induced in conductor moving in magnetic field.

There are three experiments need to be done at first step.



Experiment
Take a permanent magnet and put it on table. Than take a metallic disk. Any conducting disk is fine. Attached this disk to some sort of rotating mechanism. You will need some sort of axes thru the centre of disk. I usually do this by attaching a metallic disk to some stick or short round bar with the glue. With for the glue to dry. Then put one end of the bar or stick in drilling machine. Now, you can rotate the disk around its axis.
Put the disk over the magnet, so that the axis of magnetic field of permanent magnet and the axis of rotation of disk coincide.
Rotate the disk over the magnet and measure the voltage between the rim and the axis of the disk. Induced voltage will be detected.
Experiment
Now you have to reverse rotating object. In this experiment you will have to rotate the magnet and have the disk stationary. Prepare the magnet as you did prepare the disk in experiment 1. Then put the magnet over disk so that the axis of magnetic field of permanent magnet and the axis of disk coincide. Now rotate the disk.
One would expect that the induced voltage would be measured. Yet it is not so. No voltage is induced in the disk. Even that you apparently have a relative motion between the magnetic field and the conductive disk.
Experiment
Let us make third and last experiment. Glue together magnet and conductive disk. Of course the axis have to coincide. And rotate them both. An induced voltage is measured between rim of the disc and it's axis. Yet there is no relative motion between magnet and the disk.


These three experiments performed by Michael Faraday were puzzling. Why?


There are two possible explanations of the phenomena. We know that if we have a relative motion between the conductor and magnetic field, voltage is induced in conductor. But these three experiments suggest something different. So we have two possible explanations. Keep in mind that we have actually three elements in these experiments. And we have to take in consideration relative motion between all three elements. Yet we have three experiments with three observed facts. So a definitive conclusion cannot be made.



First possible explanation is that in exp1 voltage is induced in disk, while we do not have relative motion between voltmeter and magnet. In exp2 voltage is not induced in disk and voltmeter. Yet both voltages are of same sign so the voltage difference cannot be measured. And in exp3 voltage is induced in voltmeter, because it has relative motion to magnet, while disk does not.



And there is also another possible explanation. The magnetic field cannot be rotated around its magnetical axis. We can rotate the magnet as much as we want, yet all we do rotate is the magnet not its magnetic field. In fact we must conclude that magnet does create or bear magnetic field. But we must also state that magnetic field and magnet are not one and the same reality. Like the colour of the ball. One red ball has it's own colour. And colour is a property of the ball. Yet if you rotate the ball, do you rotate the colour? Can you rotate or move the property of the object with the object? Everyone in right mind knows that the question does not make sense and cannot be answered.



But this did not satisfy me. I needed answer to this puzzle. And it was horrible revelation to me that some prominent 'scientist' tried to answer the question by repeating and repeating the same three experiments in well equipped laboratories, tried to measure some difference. It should be simple known to anyone that we have a riddle of three elements and three results. It cannot be solved like that. Even more saddening is the fact that this very same people used very complicated mathematical formulas to support one or the other answer. Yet it looks to me that they know how to calculate, they lack simple logic.



Like in all good things in life simple questions require simple solutions. I wasted a lot of time myself thinking of this Faraday's riddle. But after some time a solution to the question was formed in my mind.



The key question here is the relativity of conductor and magnetic field. So we have to dispense one element to gain conclusive decision. In our case this has to be measuring instrument, voltmeter. But by such constitution we have no longer ability to detect the presence of induced voltage. Or..?

Here I used the reality. We can never have a perfect disk with perfect roundness or a perfectly uniform magnetic field. And we can never put disk and magnetic filed perfectly in line of the same axis. This fact can be used in our new experiment. Let us do two more experiments.



Suspend the disk over the magnet on thin string, so that disk can be spinned over the magnet and that it can move of the vertical axis. Now spin the disk. It can be done by simply twisting the string. You will observe that after some time, disk tends to escape the magnetic field. It will start to spin around the magnet. Off the vertical axis. Reason for this is obvious. There are induced voltages in the disk. This produces eddy currents in the disk. The current as we know produces it's own magnetic field, that is just inverse of induced current. In perfect world with perfectly uniform magnetic field, conductor and mathematically exact position of both axes in the same line, all induced currents in the disk would be same. And they resultant of them would be null. Also the resultant of Biort Savart force between original on induced magnetic field would be null. Yet we live in imperfect world. So we can see by change in the position of rotating disk according to vertical axis the fact that voltage is indeed induced in the disk. As we would expect.
Now. For second experiment. Do not change anything. Make sure, disk is in its rest position and that it can spin and deflect form vertical axis freely. Now spin the magnet. If the magnetic field would spin on it's magnetic axis with the magnet, the same effect should be observed.
It is not so. The disk neither spins neither is deflected form vertical axis. And we have the same imperfection of elements and positions as before.


By this simple experiment I solved Faraday's riddle in December 2002. The magnetic field CANNOT BE ROTATED ON ITS POLAR AXIS.

I know many experiments were done on Faraday's paradox. Some even solved the problem. But none of these experiments were simple to perform and were not so conclusive as mine. And I do not know of anyone who did the same experiment as I did.



Now let us come to the basic question.

Does the Earth's magnetic field rotate with the planet?



If the magnetic field of simple permanent magnet is not rotated with the magnet? What about Earth's magnetic field. I mailed my discovery to some experts in the field of geomagnetism a month after my solution to Faraday's paradox. Most of them didn't reply. Some of them were not even aware of the existence of Faraday's paradox. I told you before, that teachers avoid the subject for lack of explanation. The rest concluded that Earth's magnetic field rotates with the planet in spite of fact that magnetic field of a simple magnet can not be rotated.

I will avoid repeating reasons they offered for their belief. Let us just say I never ever in my life heard of so stupid and ingenious claims.

One, best of them, to my opinion, was that Earth’s magnetic field is much more complex than magnetic field of bar magnet.

Is it?

I do not think that complexity of this planets magnetic field is simple. But as we all know even the smallest bar magnet has a magnetic filed that is just the result of many many small magnets constituting the bigger one. So even the smallest magnet is composed. One can find this simply by breaking the magnet. If you break the magnet you do not have separate poles. You have two magnets.

Obviously magnet is composed of many smaller magnets.

It should be noted here, that none of physics I know ever used simple but effective logic of Lucretius, by which he explained the existence of atoms. For if you can divide something, you must have the one that divides and the one between. This is just my hint to all people who still search for aether. J

Think. For our mind and logic is the best laboratory ever constructed. You do not need complex machinery to explore the nature and it's laws. All you need is clear mind, logic and a bit of fantasy. So if you can divide a magnet and the result is two magnets and two magnetic fields, you can question yourself, did you divide one magnetic field in two? And if so, what is that, that Lucretius would call »the one between«?

Fact is. This planet's magnetic field does not rotate with the planet. For even if it would be the most complex magnetic field in universe, it would still be obedient to the laws of nature. And the law of nature is that magnetic field cannot be rotated on it's own polar axis. Sic! Simple or complex. It does not rotate.

And if we accept this simple fact, we should know by now from all these simple experiments, that we do rotate in Earth's magnetic field, and some induced voltage must be present by that.

For all those scientist, who searched for reasons of telluric currents and explanations of geodynamo process that is creating Earth's magnetic field, please take this fact in consideration. It is of utmost importance. Feel free to forget all theories and hypothesis you know. Just perform these five simple experiments and conclude by your own mind and reason.

To me conclusive experiment is more than any even so beautiful theory. Facts are facts.

We do leave in sea of energy. Free energy. For if we would be able to construct a simple coil in which only one half would be sensitive to induction and other half noninductive, we could gain almost limitless quantities of electrical energy just from fact that we rotate and move in Earth's magnetic field.

Please do not confuse the rotation of magnetic poles around rotational axis of Earth. Earth's magnetic poles relation to any point on the globe does not change with the rotation of the planet. Position of poles rotate of course. But the magnetic field does not.



With these I conclude my first paper in the series of exploration. Feel free to e-mail me and comment these lines. But if in any doubt. Please do perform these experiment's yourself before you jump to conclusions and attack me for heresy.



Vanja Janežič

Slovenia

Email: Vanja.Janezic@cgp.si

Vanja Janežič


http://www.geocities.com/terella1/
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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StefanR
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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by StefanR » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:53 pm

I always loved this one:

The simplest motor of the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOdboRYf1hM
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by robinson » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:22 am

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:gA ... cd=4&gl=us


Faraday's Final Riddle; Does the Field Rotate with a
Magnet?
by A. G. Kelly
... this paper is an amalgamation of Monographs 5 & 6 of the
Institution of Engineers of Ireland, published November 1998
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junglelord
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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by junglelord » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:00 am

The Faraday paradox is well explained in APM, and in fact is one of the first things he points out. Rotate a magnet on a computer screen. The field does not rotate. It is therefore a product of the aether, not the magnet.
;)
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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robinson
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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by robinson » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:28 am

junglelord wrote:... Rotate a magnet on a computer screen. The field does not rotate. It is therefore a product of the aether, not the magnet.
;)
Nonsense. You would know this if you actually rotate a magnet and watch what happens.
It is easier for a king to have a lie believed, than a beggar to spread the truth.Especially when the beggar doesn't even have a laptop.

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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by seasmith » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:26 pm

StefanR wrote: on Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:53 pm
I always loved this one:

The simplest motor of the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOdboRYf1hM
A look at the "Levitation Homopolar Motor" video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hHfkK4iGBQ in the same section,
probably gives an insight in to how the Earth could speed up and slow down,
in an electrically changing (space) environment,
as addressed recently in an EU Planetary Science posting:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... ?f=4&t=998

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junglelord
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Re: Electricity, Magnetism and Monopoles... Oh My!

Unread post by junglelord » Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:37 pm

robinson wrote:
junglelord wrote:... Rotate a magnet on a computer screen. The field does not rotate. It is therefore a product of the aether, not the magnet.
;)
Nonsense. You would know this if you actually rotate a magnet and watch what happens.
I never did it on my screen as it does not have a degaussing feature. Does your screen have a degaussing feature? If it does not, this may explain your results I would guess. However Dave Thompson points out that with a CRT with a degaussing feature and a permanent magnet you can rotate the magnet on the screen and the field will not move. He says ferrofluid will give the same results. The magnetic field cannot be rotated around its magnetical axis. We can rotate the magnet as much as we want, yet all we do rotate is the magnet not its magnetic field. In fact we must conclude that magnet does create or bear magnetic field. But we must also state that magnetic field and magnet are not one and the same reality. Therefore Faradays Pardox is evidence of the Aether. This is what Dave Thompson says regarding this if we can equate the two and I got it right.
Although not well known, Scalar detectors have been built for picking up magnetic longitudinal waves. David Thomson independently built a scalar detector, which turned out to be similar to the Dea/Faretto detector. Here he discusses some of the technology from the perspective of the Aether Physics Model.

Scalar detectors pick up changes in magnetic flux density. If you have a CRT monitor, a magnet, and a means for degaussing your monitor, you can perform a simple experiment to see what magnetic flux density means. Place a magnet near the monitor and observe the circles (some older monitors show lines due to a different electron gun configuration) caused by the magnetic flux tubes cutting through the plane of the screen (the circles are ovals when the flux tubes cut at an angle). The smaller circles occur nearest the magnet, which indicates the magnetic flux density is higher. The flux tubes diverge as they get further from the magnet, thus as flux expands it decreases the amount of magnetic flux per area.
http://www.16pi2.com/magnetic_scalar_waves.htm

Image

There is clear, visual evidence proving the existence of the Aether using a magnet and cathode ray tube. The cathode ray tube could be your computer monitor, TV, or oscilloscope screen. Just make sure your cathode ray tube has a degaussing feature before doing this experiment, or you may permanently disfigure your viewing screen.

Place the magnet against the cathode ray tube with the north or south pole facing the screen. You will notice a pattern seemingly caused by the magnetic flux of the magnet as it reorganizes the electron beams. Once the magnet is flush against the screen, twist it back and forth. You will notice the pattern on the screen does not change. Had the magnet been the source of the magnetic flux, the pattern would have changed since the magnetic flux would link to the molecules and atoms of the magnet. However, the magnetic flux arises from the Aether and thus exists relative to the Aether. Twisting the magnet will not affect the magnetic flux of the Aether. This experiment will work regardless of the shape of the magnet.

The same experiment works with ferrofluid. Ferrofluid is a liquid substance that reacts to a magnetic field. Position a magnet below a dish of ferrofluid and twist the magnet back and forth, as in the above experiment. The magnetic flux will not move as observed by the ferrofluid not moving. Once again, the magnetic flux associated with the magnet is coming from the Aether and not from the magnet.
Image

We provided an experiment for proving the existence of the Aether using a permanent magnet and a CRT. Although cathode ray tubes did not exist in the late 1800s, Albert Einstein wrote a paper at the age of 16, which essentially made the same observations about magnetic fields and Aether.

http://www.16pi2.com/Einstein_Aether.htm
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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