Yet another refutation of special relativity

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Chickenmales
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Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by Chickenmales » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:21 pm

There are a lot of derivations for the lorentz transformation. At least some of them are listed on Wikipedia:

Derivations of the Lorentz transformations

They all have something in common though, the transformations:

Image

If we can show that these equations are wrong then all the derivations must be wrong as well.

If we solve for t in the first equation we get:

t = x/v - x'/vγ

And substitute this into the second equation:

t' = γ(x/v - x'/vγ - vx/c2)
t' = γx(1/v - v/c2) - x'/v

If we now set x' = -vt' (I'm not sure what his means, but I'm sure we can do it,) then:

1/v - v/c2 = 0
v2 = c2

So v = c, I think this is because all the different derivations make the mistake of saying that x = ct at the start and then substituting in x= vt later on. This means that it must be true that v = c.


If you believe that the speed of light is the same regardless of the velocity of the observer (personnally I think it is, I also think the speed of light depends on certain properties of the ether, but I'm open minded,) such that:

dx/dt = dx'/dt' = c
dt'/dt = dx'/dx

And light is a wave so:

c = ω/k

Where ω is the angular frequency and k is the wave number. The elecromagnetic wave equation for the electric field (the magnetic field is the same) is now:

k2(d2E/dx2) = ω2(d2E/dt2)

We can now transform this to the O' refernce frame using the chain rule:

k2(dx'/dx)2(d2E/dx'2) = ω2(dt'/dt)2(d2E/dt'2)

So,

ω'2 = ω2(dt'/dt)2
k'2 = k2(dx'/dx)2

Which just gives:

dt'/dt = ω'/ω
dx'/dx = k'/k

What I think this means is that if an observer is using light to observe something, the changes in times and distances they observe will correlate with the Doppler effect. I think this makes sense because if the peaks of a light wave are in sync with the ticks of a clock in one inertial reference frame, and an observer is observing the clock, the the ticks of the clock should be in sync in every inertial reference frame.

Dr_Mat_Hunt
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by Dr_Mat_Hunt » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:03 pm

The Lorentz transformations are what make Maxwell's equations te same in each inertial frame. If you think they are wrong, then you have to get another model for electricity and magnetism.

seasmith
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by seasmith » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:51 pm

~
When operating by Ɛlectrical principles, one may move beyond the ambiguities of XIX siécle Lorentzian "time-space"
dilatations and contractions
, by simply calculating time-dependent charge density functions. σ/t
It's quite common in this century.

;)

Chickenmales
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by Chickenmales » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:38 pm

Dr_Mat_Hunt wrote:The Lorentz transformations are what make Maxwell's equations te same in each inertial frame. If you think they are wrong, then you have to get another model for electricity and magnetism.
I think that different inertial reference frames will have different distances and clock rates in such a way that a different rate of change in a magnetic field, for example, will create a stronger or weaker electric field. It's like changing inertial reference frames is the same as changing the rate at which the magnetic field changes. So observers in different reference frames will observe different electric and magnetic fields.

I think this is consistent with the fact that an electric field moving with a constant velocity will generate a constant magnetic field. So, two observers in different frames will see different magnetic fields because they'll observe the electric field to be travelling at different velocities.

I don't know if I explained that very well.
seasmith wrote:~
When operating by Ɛlectrical principles, one may move beyond the ambiguities of XIX siécle Lorentzian "time-space"
dilatations and contractions
, by simply calculating time-dependent charge density functions. σ/t
It's quite common in this century.

;)
Change density is interesting I think. If the ether is real, then it might be possible to build a theory based on energy density flux. I thnk this becasue all energy might be etheric in some way... Just an idea at the moment though. ;)

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comingfrom
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by comingfrom » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:08 pm

I'm finally clear on Relativity, thanks to M. Matthis.

The differences are in the measurements made of one coordinate system from another.
The difference is caused by the speed of light, which carries the information from that coordinate system to the one you are measuring from. It takes time to get to this coordinate system from the distant one you are measuring.

The clocks, lengths, and masses, are not changing.
(That would be breaking all the laws of physics, which apply throughout the Universe.)
They merely appear to be changing, when measured from a distant coordinate system.
General Relativity takes that into account.

For GR transforms to work, c is constant.
~Paul

Chickenmales
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by Chickenmales » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:32 am

The differences are in the measurements made of one coordinate system from another.
The difference is caused by the speed of light, which carries the information from that coordinate system to the one you are measuring from. It takes time to get to this coordinate system from the distant one you are measuring.

The clocks, lengths, and masses, are not changing.
(That would be breaking all the laws of physics, which apply throughout the Universe.)
They merely appear to be changing, when measured from a distant coordinate system.
General Relativity takes that into account.
i agree with this, although I'm not sure about mass. I'd also add that special relativity is only true when measuring lengths and times with light.

seasmith
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by seasmith » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:36 am

~
Chickenmales,
Not to derail your interesting line of thought above, but here's a short intro to the current state of DFT :
Today’s most popular method for calculating the electronic structure of atoms, molecules, liquids, solids, and plasmas
began as a bold hypothesis: The electron density distribution completely characterizes the ground state of a many-electron system.
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/physics/v ... 15_DFT.pdf

Chickenmales
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by Chickenmales » Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:21 pm

DFT looks interesting. I llke the idea of electron densities. Thanks for posting the article.

But, since you're getting me started on quantum mechanics, I just want to say that I think the Schrödinger equation is wrong. I think the iħ(d/dt) = E equation is right, but the rest of it's wrong. In my mind we can just use the chain rule to get E = iħ(dx/dt)(d/dx) = iħv(d/dx) = vP, then set v = c (for other reasons) and this we call the kinetic energy.

The potential energy is E = Fx, which we get the same way. The difference between the kinetic energy and the potential energy is that the kinetic energy is an operator in position space and the potential energy is an operator in momentum space. These equations are relativistic and fit nicely with the transformations in my first post.

If we square both sides of E = cP we get the electromagnetic wave equation. This makes me think that the wave function in quantum mechanics is the wave function of an electromagnetic wave. This suggests to me that the ether (I believe in the ether) is quantum mechanical in nature, i.e. it's responsive to conciousness.

I could be wrong and I can go through the above in more detail if anyone's interested.

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comingfrom
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by comingfrom » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:09 am

Thank you, chickenmales.

I got lost at the mention of position space and momentum space.

How many spaces can a particle inhabit?

Until now, position and momentum were properties of particles,
in the x, y and z of space.
~Paul

Chickenmales
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by Chickenmales » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:42 pm

comingfrom wrote:Thank you, chickenmales.

I got lost at the mention of position space and momentum space.

How many spaces can a particle inhabit?

Until now, position and momentum were properties of particles,
in the x, y and z of space.
~Paul
You're welcome, and thank you too.

In quantum mechanics a particle has wavefunctions in both postion and momentum space. These wavefunctions are Fourier transforms of each other, and becasue of this these two spaces are like twins. I'm not sure if there are other types of spaces, but they wouldn't be related to position and momentum space in the same way.

There are a whole lot of MIT quantum physics lectures on Youtube:

MIT 8.04 Quantum Physics I, Spring 2013 (2013)

It's quite an undertaking, and I think it's not all correct physically, but it's where I learnt about this stuff.

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comingfrom
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by comingfrom » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:13 am

Thank you for that, Chickenmales.

It's an undertaking I am not really attracted to undertake.
I do understand, as I have tried, but soon as they mention things like overlapping spaces, virtual particles, coherence, and so many more such concepts and oxymorons they have, where they muddle even the very definitions of words, then I get turned off. I can't get any clear water out of their muddle.

Until I discovered EU and the TBP, and then M. Mathis, I believed like the rest, that I was just too dumb to understand. Now I have discovered the real reason why I didn't understand, and my eyes are opened, I am well pleased.

This is what I believe they are trying to describe:
Particles have spins, to which the rules of gyroscopics apply. One spin's axis might be on your x axis of space, the next spin's axis will be on your y axis of space, and the next spin up has it's axis on your z axis of space.

Gyroscopics says you cannot have two spins on the same axis, so the second spin's axis has to be outside the radius of your spinning body, end over end, which gives it a wave motion along the trajectory of motion. The next spin's axis will be outside the radius of the underlying spin, and will cause another wave motion, orthogonal to it's wave motion on it's trajectory.

This explanation makes much more simple logical sense to me, over saying there are multiple spaces, which contradicts our definition of space.

It also shows us, they are missing a space, because space is three dimensional, not two dimensional.
Which in turn shows us, how easily it is forgotten, that space has 3 dimensions, when start messing with the definition of space.
~Paul

Chickenmales
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Re: Yet another refutation of special relativity

Unread post by Chickenmales » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:09 pm

It's an undertaking I am not really attracted to undertake.
I do understand, as I have tried, but soon as they mention things like overlapping spaces, virtual particles, coherence, and so many more such concepts and oxymorons they have, where they muddle even the very definitions of words, then I get turned off. I can't get any clear water out of their muddle.
I think that's fair. I think there's a fair bit in those lectures that won't stand the test of time. However, I think that the basic mathematics (which is rigorous) behind quantum mechanics is true, but that it applies to electromagnetism. This means that in my theory there doesn't yet exist a model of matter (electrons and atoms, etc.)

However, I like other people's ideas about matter being rotating ether. This is where I think spin comes in, i.e. it's just spinning ether, and I also think this is related to mass, so I think mass is not fundamental, but instead arises out of more fundamental physics.

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