Questions and Answers...

Plasma formations in the ancient sky. The role of planets as charged bodies in these formations. Ground-rules for drawing reliable conclusions. A new approach to the mythic archetypes: is a unified theory of world mythology possible?
David Talbott
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Re: No swastika-crown?

Unread post by David Talbott » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:12 am

Kapriel wrote:This question is for Dave Talbott-

I was reading this page today : ... rtents.asp

They mention the spinning comet as it related to Venus. Dave you explained how the Egyptian crowns were achieved through the conjunction of Venus and Mars in various phases, and so I wondered why no Pharaoh ever wore a swastika crown?
Of course the swastika is almost entirely absent from Egypt, and that bears on the question--What was seen by whom, and where in the sky? It was not a symbol of order and authority, as was the crown, but a symbol of "power and glory" in its destructive aspect--whirling heart of heaven, whirlwind, whirlpool, chaos monster, raging goddess, all suggesting cometary "hair" whirling in the sky. In other words, the form belongs to the phase of wandering, in which location and field of view become paramount.

Unfortunately Nick Moore, the author of the cited piece, does not give captions to his illustrations, so a reader would not know that the two whirling hair images he gives are Sumerian, a key to understanding other Sumerian images pointing to the same underlying idea. The Sumerian pictographic whorl, called the "hair star" (= comet in the global language of comets), can be seen as the "terrifying glory" of Inanna-Venus in its whirling aspect.
The four-oars/four baboons/etc. seem to be the only reflection of the swastika phase. Is this because by the time Venus was spinning swastika-fashion, it was no longer connected to or related to the king-in-the-sky (or his regent)? I imagine that Venus minus it's male-heart might not be considered a ruler anymore. Without a male-head to frame, would it be silly to then call these particular discharges a 'crown'?
I'd say you're pretty close here, though you didn't mention the Egyptian "four (curling) flames," which reveal a close connection to the four apes/baboons whose curling tails stationed in four directions are in agreement with the global swastika motif. I'll see if I can post a picture or two either later today or sometime tomorrow.

In certain phases of the "whirling heart" motif, you do have a close association of the angry goddess and Mars. The spike of material reaching from Mars toward the Earth, interpreted as a beard, sword, peg, or pin in more stable phases, becomes a protruding tongue of the female chaos monster--Kali, Medusa and counterparts from China to Mesoamerica. These phases are consistently identified with destruction, not cosmic kingship, of course.

David Talbott

David Talbott
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Re: Questions and Answers...

Unread post by David Talbott » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:55 pm

I noted above the Egpytian image of the "Four Flames." A relatively late example appears in the Book of the Dead:
4Flames_BD p128.jpg
But how can we know if there is a connection to the principle of the swastika? One reason to see the connection is that the Four Flames were were not originally conceived as four separate flames held in the hands of human-like gods walking in procession :). They were the Four Sons of Horus, secondary gods intimately associated with the four quarters of sacred space--i.e., the four spokes of the cosmic wheel, the four streamers that became the swastika when the celestial kingdom unraveled.

Another good indication of the connection comes from the same source, revealing the correlation between the "Four Flames" and "four apes" (curling flames = curling tails) as I noted briefly above--
Book of the Dead.jpg
In other words, the late symbolic tradition preserved a conceptual counterpart to the swastika even in the absence of the abstract design element. The swastika signified the four streamers of the Venus-"comet" in their more violent rotational movement, typically associated with the departure and wandering of the heart-soul. This is a very large subject, of course, and one that we'll want to explore in detail. The subject must include not just the swastika, but the full range of symbols identifying the Venus-comet as the "whirling heart of heaven."

The connection of the flames to the arms of the equal-limbed cross is subtly intimated in the Egyptian hieroglyph for "flame":
I would see this as a variation on the widespread "Maltese cross" design, with one arm of the cross extending into a curled flame, capturing what happened to the arms of the cross in the subsequent episodes of catastrophe and wandering.

If one will look deeply, innumerable associations of the Four Flames with life force, power, and devastation will leap out at the investigator, a quite impressive conceptual overlap with the ancient imagery of the swastika.

David Talbott

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Re: Saturn's Cycle of Brightening and Dimming

Unread post by mague » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:38 am

MGmirkin wrote:
Pomalee wrote:From David Talbott's Thread "Origins of Myth", subsection "A Worldwide Theme":
Just as the Egyptian and Mesopotamian sun gods "rise and set" in one place, Surya occupies samanam dhama--"the same place of rising and setting." For the words translated as "rising" and "setting" to possess any intelligible meaning, one must refer (as in the case of Egypt discussed above) to a phase of brightening followed by a phase of dimming in a daily cycle.
:?: What is the mechanism for this cycle of brightening and dimming? How much contrast would exist between the two stages within the cycle?
I think the proposed "mechanism" was at least partly illuminated (pardon the pun) in a couple of posts from the thread on "Crowns of Sages and Warrior Kings (Part 3)," but perhaps D.Talbott could be more explicit?

~Michael Gmirkin
As in a previous thread i ll play devils advocate and beg to let go "manistream consciousness" for a moment.

I will not write down a full theory (lack of language skill). I just want name a few topics to think about...

Think about Schumann Resonances. Please note how the Schumann resonance field is connected to electric fields and lightning. Planetary and interplanetary. There even is a small hint to plasma physics.

We are not only talking about visible phenomena, but, potentially, audible phenomena. Although the benfit of vibrations is, that we can hear them without seeing anything.

Please note how Pythagoras was trying to analyze sound by using mathematics. Note how sound (earths C# tone is the base note of indian Ragas for example ) was important in ancient religions and bliefs. We do vibrate within thr Schumann resonance and some, especially india yogi do belief that we are able to sense any disturbance within this field. The ygoi do belief that the frequency of the Schumann resonance is what keeps us healthy.
I though i have read about how the missing Schumann resonance is a problem on longer spaceflights. I couldnt find any referenze to link though.

And please note how Tiresias is the prototype of the ancient BLIND seer and how hypersentives like female virgins have been used as oracles.
Although very "esoteric" i dlike to mention the acoustic attributes of the great pyramid in egypt. It could have been a temple of sound. A "great array" to listen to the universe and earths ASchuman resonance.

Those sounds are waves and depending on the duration between peak and bottom they might sound like a rising and setting of an entity when listening to it.


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