The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings (Part 2)

Plasma formations in the ancient sky. The role of planets as charged bodies in these formations. Ground-rules for drawing reliable conclusions. A new approach to the mythic archetypes: is a unified theory of world mythology possible?
David Talbott
Site Admin
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:11 pm

The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings (Part 2)

Unread post by David Talbott » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:31 pm

[5-4-08: Please note that the first portion of this submission has been removed in order to expand the content. It should be available shortly. David Talbott]

This thread continues the discussion from "The Crowns of Sages and Warrior Kings (Part 1)" which itself was a discussion of a sub-topic of "The Origins of Myth..."

"The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings (Part 2)" discusses the archetypes associated with the Venus discharge when seen off-axis.

To further illustrate the underlying unity of the symbolism, we need to see what happens when the celestial object viewed is the rosette of Venus, the 8-petaled flower. In the image below, the Greek Aphrodite (Venus), having emerged from the body of displaced universal sovereign Ouranos, floats on her scallop shell (the displaced view of the discharging Venus). Also present is the rosette, the symbol of the radial "full-flower" discharge with eight symmetrical streamers--
A closer look at the rosette aligned with the scallop shell:
The connection of the scallop shell to the radial discharge (rosette) has not been forgotten. They are, in fact, two of the most common symbols of the classical Venus. And yet, in nature as we know it, the two symbolic objects have nothing in common, and the identification with a planet, Venus, simply reduces the entire picture to absurdity. From the vantage point of the model, however, the discharging Venus accounts directly for both images, and in ways that can be readily tested. All that changes is the number of discharge streamers and the vantage point of the observer when the planets are moved off axis.

Here is the on-axis view of the rosette in our stylized 3-dimensional reconstruction:
Planets with Venus 8-club flower-s.jpg
(40.74 KiB) Downloaded 1500 times
And here is the form off axis:
It is indeed the underlying form of the Venus-scallop, just with fewer flutes. But does the image look familiar to you? It is, in fact, the form of another mythical personality, said to have floated on the cosmic waters in the events that separated one world age from another. For the Hindus and Buddhists, this was the great 7-headed Naga-serpent, whom we see in both the "creation" legends and, later, as the throne of Buddha, seen in simplified (archaic) form below:
Here is a modern painting, preserving key elements, including the blossoming flower on which the figure rests (discharging star as plant of life) and the coiled serpent of creation, which I intend to describe in considerable detail:
In fact, and for "unknown" reasons, the seven-headed serpent or dragon occurs from Mesopotamia and Egypt to the Americas. Below is the Aztec version, only slightly distorting the cosmic prototype"
But there is much more...

The Peacock Throne

To give further perspective on the underlying unity of the imagery--radial discharge and displaced view of the same discharge--consider the fascinating emblem below, preserved by the Yezidis (concentrated in northern Iraq but also residing elsewhere in rather small communities). Here again, we see the same form, but with a different interpretation.
Now the flutes appear as the tail of a peacock, but the artists have not forgotten the relationship to the cosmic wheel, and even the original crescent is present.

This is the "peacock throne" of the "Peacock Angel," Tawsi Melek. And true to the archetype of the warrior-hero, he is not the universal sovereign, but the vehicle of creation, the regent of the supreme god, giving form to all that was brought forth in the event:
"The Yezidis do not believe that the Peacock Angel is the Supreme God. The Supreme God created him as an emanation at the beginning of time. He was brought into manifestation in order to give the invisible, transcendental Supreme God a vehicle with which to create and administer the universe."

So there is indeed much ground to cover. The test is to verify that the unity beneath the great diversity of world myth and symbol can be brought into the light of day.

David Talbott
(FMV 4-19-08: split "crowns" discussion into (part 1) and (part 2))

David Talbott
Site Admin
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings

Unread post by David Talbott » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:29 pm

The "Hand of God"
(42.85 KiB) Downloaded 1368 times
The image above is a three-dimensional rendering, based on our model, of the 8-spoked wheel of the Venus-discharge. When this formation is tilted to represent an off-axis view it looks like this:
Planets with 5 club hand-small.jpg
(38.75 KiB) Downloaded 1362 times
When I ask folks to tell me what they see, the most common response has been “the five fingers of a hand.” (I’ve also applied this simple query to other forms to confirm that selective perception, or force-fitting is unnecessary in following our methodology. In virtually all cases, the answers are those one would expect based on the most popular mythical interpretations.)

If the 8-spoked radial discharge was also witnessed from an off-axis position, we must ask if a symbolic “hand,” associated with the mother goddess, has a role in the origins of world mythology and symbolism.

Amongst the ancient Egyptians, the goddess Iusaaset was an alter ego of the popular goddesses Isis and Hathor. She bore an interesting title: “the Hand of Atum.” Those who are familiar with the myth of Atum and the first phase of creation will be well aware of the bizarre role of the god’s “hand” in those events, which brought forth the goddess Tefnut and the god Shu, the first active forms of the mother goddess and the warrior-hero with the differentiation of Atum into three powers (Ra, Tefnut, and Shu).

In fact, the mythic “hand of God” appears to be worldwide, and with precisely the associations we should expect. Here is the Jain symbol called Ahimsa, spelled out inside the Dharma-wheel in the palm of the hand:

Ahimsa is clearly connected to middle-eastern Arabic and Hebrew variations, Hamsa or Khamsa, that Muslims came to call the “Hand of Fatima,” or “Eye of Fatima,” and Jewish tradition came to name the “Hand of Miriam.” Variations below:
Anyone taking up an inquiry concerning the eye in the hand will have no trouble confirming that in the general traditions the eye and the wheel overlap in the general symbolism. Below are three examples from the Korean "Book of a Thousand Hands":
Click on the image to see a larger version, and note the seated, Buddha-like figure in the third picture, enthroned on the plant of life and crowned by flames of fire. This is not the only instance of an 8-spoked wheel symbolically aligned with the image of a mystical "eye-in-hand."

In the New World we find the same recurring concepts. The rock art image below I had an opportunity to photograph in New Mexico ("Three Rivers," if I recall correctly)
Also, the Haida of southeastern Alaska have preserved an attractive variant of the same form:
Here is a fascinating form from "Moundville" in Alabama:
(93.27 KiB) Downloaded 1354 times
(The surrounding two-fold Oroboros, another global symbol, will only add further confirmation as we take up this fascinating archetype.)
Also at Moundville, certain associations stand out, such as an enigmatic link to symbolic birds:
From the interpretation of the discharge streamers as "feathers" and as "fingers" of a hand, should we not expect to see the respective symbols continually aligned in ways that make no sense apart from the celestial referent? Indeed the specific forms of the "rays" displayed on the back of the birds and inside the birds are the forms we get from the displaced view of five- and four-rayed discharges respectively.

Now look at the bird figure below, a form presented with varying degrees of artistic elaboration in the region:
Remove the head and feet of the bird (which, if we are correct, the artists added to align the design with the mythological interpretation of the root form), and you would have the classic form of the "wheel-in-the-hand."

Eyes and wheels, hands, and feathers, brought into juxtaposition, can only appear as blind syncretism in the absence of a unifying reference. Of course, one can imagine that within a particular cultural environment, random combination of originally distinct symbols might occur. But a process that is random could not have occurred again and again with the same "irrational" details in opposite corner of the earth. Can you think of anything in nature today that might inspire a global image of an eye in a hand, or a wheel in a hand, or more curiously, the constant juxtaposition of both?

The general correspondences are definitive. The goddess of the radiant eye is also the nave and spokes of the cosmic wheel. And from the displaced view, the 8-spoked wheel inspired the theme of the goddess as a celestial “hand,” whose radiance was represented as five luminous “fingers.” Thus, we see in the rock art from the Key Islands a direct association of "hands" with discharging star images.
The connection is made more explicit by the simple "wheel-in-the-hands" from Catal Huyuk in southern Turkey:
Even the association of the fingers with the star of Venus is made explicit in the Aztec image of Venus as a "half-star," complete with the enclosed red sphere where we would expect to see it:
In fact, the symbolic half-star of Venus answers very precisely to the predictions of the model. Always remember that the discharge configuration was rotating as the earth turned on its axis. One symbol pointing to the displaced vantage point, for example, is the warrior-skirt, which simply inverts the more usual "upright" position of half-star. You can see this in the half-star worn as a skirt by the dancing figure in this Aztec image:
The fact that the figure also holds the half-star in his hand, and is crowned by a six-rayed variant of the same star, while the image is framed by other variations of the half-star, adds an exclamation point to the power of the image.

David Talbott

User avatar
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA

Re: The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings

Unread post by MGmirkin » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:54 pm

David Talbott wrote:Always remember that the discharge configuration was rotating as the earth turned on its axis.


David Talbott
To clarify, was it rotating at the SAME speed and in the same direction as the Earth (would not appear to move?), or were they rotating at different rates, in which case the formation would appear to continuously shift, from our vantage point in relative [different] motion to the event?

Just wondering,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

David Talbott
Site Admin
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings

Unread post by David Talbott » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:56 pm

MGmirkin wrote:
David Talbott wrote:Always remember that the discharge configuration was rotating as the earth turned on its axis.
To clarify, was it rotating at the SAME speed and in the same direction as the Earth (would not appear to move?), or were they rotating at different rates, in which case the formation would appear to continuously shift, from our vantage point in relative [different] motion to the event?

Just wondering,
The evidence suggests that the off-axis form was not always upright, and that it visually rotated in some sense that is not entirely clear. In other words, the rotation I'm referring to was not strictly synchronous with the rotation of the Earth, at least in some phases. Artistic tradition tended to prefer the upright orientation, and a somewhat upright orientation can be maintained in three dimensional simulations of possible off-axis relationships, though in other positions it will rotate around a center in the fashion of the circumpolar Great Bear. A little too complicated to attempt a summary at the moment.

David Talbott

Posts: 4433
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:54 pm

Chronological Order?

Unread post by Lloyd » Tue May 06, 2008 6:12 pm

- I'm eager to learn in what order all these apparitions occurred, from the beginning of the human race on Earth till the end of the Saturn Age.
- My recollection is that it was stated about the Saturn Model that Saturn was originally seen as a dim reddish ball that stayed near the horizon, then it went to the stationary polar position and turned a golden color, then it became surrounded by a circular cloud, the ouroboros, which was Venus circling it, then Venus moved to the center of Saturn's face. I'm not clear on all that, but I'm less clear yet on when Mars entered the picture. It seems agreed that Mars is much older than Venus, maybe older than Earth too, but I don't know where it was before Venus arrived.
- And it will excite me even more when we can start putting more exact dates on all these events. As I recall, the best guesses were that the Golden Age ended from 5 to 10 thousand years ago.

User avatar
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:17 pm

Re: The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings (Part 2)

Unread post by Kapriel » Sat May 24, 2008 12:35 am

Re: the Aztec figure above:
It seems to me that the 'Mars-as-high-priest' figure is often given a spotted garment, so this image is correct in yet another way.

The Egyptians did similarly- King Tut's burial chambers contained two sets of spotted-skins; one a real skin, and one a manufactured look-alike (pure gold spots on the latter, while on the real skin they were black).

I confess I can't decide which of the various plasma-effects to attribute the Martian spotted garment to. Celestial 'battle-scars' seems a poor representation of its role as priest/servant, as do 'disease-pox'.
Doubt is not proof.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest