The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by junglelord » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:23 am

Coming from the position that science requires PROOF, not conjecture based on inference due to a bad theory that cannot account for observations, we come upon constant "science press releases" that read like a fairy tale book, not anything like hard science, hell even the word Magical is a apt description of their "science"


In fact they admit if they find nothing this time around, they are all wrong.
Electrical Engineers who built the LHC along with Plasma Scientist have a alternative view that is balanced, does predict observations, and needs no magic to balance the books. Things are going to come clear real soon.

Dark matter in the room indeed.....thats a joke, If its here why can you not isolate it? Really how much magic is needed?

Search for Magical Dark Matter Gets Real

Though scientists don't yet know what dark matter is, it's probably in the room with you right now. Researchers hope to finally track down the stuff thought to make up most of the matter in the universe with the world's biggest atom smasher, which went online yesterday in Switzerland.

The secrets of dark matter, the mysteries of the so-called God particle, and extra dimensions in the universe are just a few of the exotic discoveries scientists are hoping to make with the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), a 17-mile (27-kilometer) circular tunnel running 300 feet (91 meters) underground near Geneva.

The $8 billion machine at the European Center for Nuclear Research (CERN) completed its first successful test run Wednesday, though in the coming days and months the real magic will begin, scientists say.

That’s when two beams of protons will race at close to the speed of light in opposite directions around the ring of LHC and collide to produce heaps of energy and, hopefully, some new particles no one has ever seen before.

“If things go well it could be days until we get our first collisions,” Steve Peggs, a researcher from Long Island’s Brookhaven National Laboratory who was at LHC for its opening test, said Wednesday via satellite from CERN. “But this is not like flipping the switch on a light bulb. Once the collisions start, we want to make them as bright as possible. It will probably take a number of years to get up to full performance.”

Scientists can’t say for sure when the first discoveries will come, but the machine is almost guaranteed to tell us something fundamental about the nature of the universe. If LHC doesn’t find the particles it’s looking for, it will mean physicists’ predictions have been way off and they must go back to the drawing board.

Great and small

Though scientists are looking for some of the smallest things in the universe, they must use the biggest particle accelerator ever built to find them. The LHC’s vast size allows it to ramp up protons to extreme speeds that cause collisions powerful enough to recreate conditions in the universe only a trillionth of a second after the Big Bang.

This power is what scientists hope will provide the key to understanding the bizarre substance called dark matter, which astronomers know is there because of the gravity it creates; as one example, it holds galaxies together. But they don't know what it is and they can't see it. This stuff is thought to make up between 85 and 90 percent of all the matter in the universe, yet no one really knows what it is.

Physicists are hoping to catch the particle responsible for dark matter in action as a byproduct of a collision in LHC. One of the leading candidates for the dark matter particle is something called a WIMP, or Weakly-interacting Massive Particle. Some theories of WIMPs predict that they fall into the energy range of particles that could be produced in LHC.

Another mystery the machine could solve is how stuff acquires mass and why some particles have more mass than others. One possible answer, predicted by theory but never yet detected, is a particle called the Higgs boson (dubbed the God particle because it is widespread and powerful, yet difficult to prove).

“The LHC is a tremendous experimental venture because we really don’t know precisely what we’re going to find,” said Howard Gordon, a Brookhaven physicist who also works at LHC. “We don’t know if the Higgs will be there or not. Of course, the unexpected results are the things that might be the most interesting.”

Extra dimensions?

Some predictions of string theory can also be tested in the collider. String theory posits that all particles are made of tiny vibrating bands, and requires the universe to contain more dimensions than the simple three (plus time) that we currently perceive.

If those extra dimensions do exist, they could leave a signature in the collisions to take place at LHC. When protons smash in its tunnels, sophisticated detectors measure the energy and particles that spew off from the crashes. If some of this energy is escaping into the extra dimensions, LHC should be able to note the missing energy.

The detectors serve as researchers’ eyes and ears inside the experiment. Humans can’t be present in the tunnels while they are running because of the danger from radiation. Even if a person could peer inside, though, they wouldn’t see a thing — all the action is happening at the subatomic scale.

The opening of an accelerator with the potential to change our understanding of the universe marks a new era in physics, scientists say.

“As some might say, ‘One short trip for a proton, but one giant leap for mankind’”, said Nigel S. Lockyer, director of Canada’s particle physics laboratory TRIUMF.
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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by substance » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:04 am

I don`t believe the authors notion about coming back to the drawing board. As much as we want this to happen, I simply cannot visualize the most famous physicists coming to a conference in a few years making an official statement to the general public "well, um.. sorry guys, we`re wrong from the beginning".
Also
“The LHC is a tremendous experimental venture because we really don’t know precisely what we’re going to find,”
can be changed to "The LHC is an absolutely foolish venture because...". It is incredible how people are willing to spend 10 billion dollars on something entirely theoretical, but funds are limited for areas of real phenomenons and most importantly such that may have big applications for everyday life.
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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by StevenO » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:46 pm

substance wrote:I don`t believe the authors notion about coming back to the drawing board. As much as we want this to happen, I simply cannot visualize the most famous physicists coming to a conference in a few years making an official statement to the general public "well, um.. sorry guys, we`re wrong from the beginning".
Also
“The LHC is a tremendous experimental venture because we really don’t know precisely what we’re going to find,”
can be changed to "The LHC is an absolutely foolish venture because...". It is incredible how people are willing to spend 10 billion dollars on something entirely theoretical, but funds are limited for areas of real phenomenons and most importantly such that may have big applications for everyday life.
I predict they will find such a mess of particles that are NOT the Higgs particle that sooner or later they will have to renounce the Standard Model.
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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by Solar » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:50 pm

StevenO wrote: I predict they will find such a mess of particles that are NOT the Higgs particle that sooner or later they will have to renounce the Standard Model.
LOL :!: :!: :!:

Indeed
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden


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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by Solar » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:00 am

rangerover777 wrote:Funny thing :

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
Looks like everything was going fine until someone committed division by zero. :twisted:
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by MalOK » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:36 am

Solar wrote:
rangerover777 wrote:Funny thing :

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
Looks like everything was going fine until someone committed division by zero. :twisted:
This made my day. Especially after listening to a science professor wax rhapsodic about the virtues of the LHC and the possibilities opened up by finding the "legendary" higgs-boson.

Yes, he actually said legendary

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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by junglelord » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:07 pm

The legend goes back to the false unification or the so called "electroweak force".
To accomplish this they found particles had no mass.
:shock:

so they invented the Higgs force field and the Higgs boson.
:?

Thats the legend as it stands currently.
Since no one can explain mass, save Dave Thompson and the Aether Physics Model, its going to be funny when truth meets fiction.
:lol:

If it takes 8 billion dollars to prove themselves foolish, well so be it.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by mague » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:48 am

junglelord wrote: Thats the legend as it stands currently.
Since no one can explain mass, save Dave Thompson and the Aether Physics Model, its going to be funny when truth meets fiction.
:lol:
Its going to be funny anyway. Either they proove they are wrong or they find the boson.
The boson is, as i undertsand it, the missing link between massless and mass.

"And the lord said: There shall be light and there was light"

Thats how i imagine it. If certain people understand how to turn massless into mass the universe will turn into a circus :D For some reasons i think there will be a force to avoid this though.

But, sometimes, i have doubts that the search for a boson is the true intention of the colider. I am only 400km away and i have shamanic dreams and visions since days about it. As if it is attracting "stuff" from the sun and distributing it in zigzag lines to the west. Not very scientific, but usually my dreams do have a reson.

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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by redeye » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:49 am

BOOOM...well, not quite.

Cheers!
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Re: The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) - The grander the better ?

Post by Birkeland » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:17 pm

The New York Times, October 12, 2009: A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather - The Collider, the Particle and a Theory About Fate
"The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see" - Ayn Rand

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