Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by tholden » Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:50 am

To get an idea of how strong the IE relationship is and, conversely, how strange it appears that the same relationship does not exist between IE and Semitic languages, let's look at the relationship between English and Russian for a moment...

Family members are nearly the same, brat, seestra, mat (declines as 'materi'), and the only one which is a bit strange is Ahtyetz (father), but the 'yetz' part of that is a common suffix and the 'aht' part the same 'at' we see in 'pater/vater/father.

Personal pronouns, all easily recognizable: Я, меня, мне, дай-мне = gimme (almost no change in 3500 years...)

Numbers all recognizable from Western languages other than nine (ahdin, dva, tri, chiteri (like quatro) etc.)

Fire = ahgon (ignite/ignition/Agni); water = voda; moloko = milk

Common utensils, molot = hammer/mallet; lozhke/loeffel/ladel/spoon; kotyol/kettle

And then most of the familiar IE p/f words. IndoEuropean people apparently pronounced 'p's and 'f's together at first and Germain retains words like Pfennig and Pferde which still do that. Thus there is a list of common words which will start with a P in one IE language and an F in another, the rest of the word remaining nearly the same; examples include the familiar fish/peche, foot/pied etc. Russian also shows many if not most of these:

flame - plamiya
fall - pal/upal etc.
swim/flow - plavats
fart - perdyets
family - plemia (tribe)

My own guess would be that an English speaking person is going to recognize something like 20 - 30 percent of the Russian words he ever sees as such IE common items. Moreover, there are any number of older IE constructs in Russian which an English speaker will not recognize at least at first, but which are nonetheless familiar to anybody who has studied Greek or Sanskrit or older IE languages.

My favorite, and the weirdest thing in the Russian language at first blush, the word to walk or go:

идти: Я иду, ты идеш, он идет, мы идем, вы идете, они идут

That comes from an ancient IE word 'it' meaning a step; we use it in 'iterate', 'itinerary' and the like, in othewords, if you think 'I iterate to the store' then the Russian saying 'Я иду в магазин' doesn't seem that weird.

None of these basic relationships exists between the IE family and any Semitic language however, and the standard theories as to how languages evolve cannot explain that. Again the IE/Semitic divide is too recent.

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by tholden » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:44 am

The sixth topic I mentioned was the question of whether the pre-flood telepathic communication mentioned in topic five extended to higher animals as well as humans. This is speculation but not by much and certainly not "wild" speculation. This is from Plato's dialog, "The Statesman" and takes the form of a conversation between Socrates and another person called only "the stranger":
... Y. Soc. Certainly that is quite consistent with what has preceded;
but tell me, was the life which you said existed in the reign of
Cronos in that cycle of the world, or in this? For the change in the
course of the stars and the sun must have occurred in both.

Str. I see that you enter into my meaning;-no, that blessed and
spontaneous life does not belong to the present cycle of the world,
but to the previous one, in which God superintended the whole
revolution of the universe; and the several parts the universe were
distributed under the rule. certain inferior deities, as is the way in
some places still There were demigods, who were the shepherds of the
various species and herds of animals, and each one was in all respects
sufficient for those of whom he was the shepherd; neither was there
any violence, or devouring of one another or war or quarrel among
them; and I might tell of ten thousand other blessings, which belonged
to that dispensation. The reason why the life of man was, as tradition
says, spontaneous, is as follows: In those days God himself was
their shepherd, and ruled over them, just as man, over them, who is by
comparison a divine being, still rules over the lower animals. Under
him there were no forms of government or separate possession of
women and children; for all men rose again from the earth, having no
memory, of the past. And although they had nothing of this sort, the
earth gave them fruits in abundance, which grew on trees and shrubs
unbidden, and were not planted by the hand of man. And they dwelt
naked, and mostly in the open air, for the temperature of their
seasons, was mild; and they had no beds, but lay on Soft couches of
grass, which grew plentifully out of: the earth. Such was the life
of man in the days of Cronos, Socrates; the character of our present
life which is said to be under Zeus, you know from your own
experience. Can you, and will you, determine which of them you deem
the happier?

Y. Soc. Impossible.

Str. Then shall I determine for you as well as I can?

Y. Soc. By all means.

Str. Suppose [b]that the nurslings of Cronos, having this boundless
leisure, and the power of holding intercourse, not only with men,
but with the brute creation
[/b], had used all these advantages with a view
to philosophy, conversing with the brutes as well as with one another,
and learning of every nature which was gifted with any special
power, and was able to contribute some special experience to the store
of wisdom there would be no difficulty in deciding that they would
be a thousand times happier than the men of our own day. Or, again, if
they had merely eaten and drunk until they were full, and told stories
to one another and to the animals-such stories as are now attributed
to them-in this case also, as I should imagine, the answer would be
easy. But until some satisfactory witness can be found of the love
of that age for knowledge and: discussion, we had better let the
matter drop, and give the reason why we have unearthed this tale,
and then we shall be able to get on....

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by tholden » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:09 am

Topic seven, the notion of an antediluvian peace, is also related to the question of pre-flood communications. Richard Heinberg's book on the topic is a sort of a cult classic: ... 0932869009

Plato also goes into the topic somewhat in "The Statesman" as per the quote above.

This notion is in sharp contrast to the sort of a fang-claw vision of prehistory which evolutionites present. Nonetheless, you only have to look at that fang/claw version of prehistory a little bit to realize how stupid it
really is.

You are starting out with apes ten million years ago, in a world of fang and claw with 1000+ lb. carnivores running amok all over the place, and trying to evolve your way towards a more refined creature in modern man.

What's wrong with that?

"Say! I'll bet if I put on these lace sleeves here and this powdered wig, them dire wolves and sabre-tooth cats will start to show me some RESPECT!!"
I mean, that's on top of the problem of monkeys, apes, or proto-humans being clearly incapable of moving down from trees and starting to live on savannas on a permanent basis. I mean, what's the most major difference between human infants and the young of all prey animals? That's right: the baby deer have the sense to keep quiet until they're old enough to run, full speed. What's gonna happen the first time a gang of 'proto-humans' starts walking around on the savannas and some human infant starts screaming his head off because something displeases him, with 500 and 1000 lb predators walking around all over the place? Can you say "Dinner Bell"??

The problem gets worse when you try to imagine known human behavorial constants interacting with the requirements of having the extremely rare to imaginary beneficial mutation always prevail:

Let's start from about ten million years back and assume we have our ape ancestor, and two platonic ideals towards which this ape ancestor (call him "Oop") can evolve: One is a sort of a composite of Mozart, Beethoven, Thomas Jefferson, Shakespeare, i.e. your archetypal dead white man, and the other platonic ideal, or evolutionary target, is going to be a sort of an "apier" ape, fuzzier, smellier, meaner, bigger Johnson, smaller brain, chews tobacco, drinks, gambles, gets into knife fights...

Further, let's be generous and assume that for every one chance mutation which is beneficial and leads towards the gentleman, you only have 1000 adverse mutations which lead towards the other guy. None of these mutations are going to be instantly fatal or anything like that at all; Darwinism posits change by insensible degree, hence all of these 1000 guys are fully functional.

The assumption which is being made is that these 1000 guys (with the bad mutation) are going to get together and decide something like:
"Hey, you know, the more I look at this thing, we're really messed-up, so what we need to do is to all get on our motorcycles and pack all our ole-ladies over to Dr. Jeckyll over there (the guy with the beneficial mutation), and try to arrange for the next generation of our kids to be in better genetic shape than we are..."
Now, it would be amazing enough if that were ever to happen once; Darwinism, however, requires that this happen EVERY GENERATION from Oop to us.


Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by lizzie » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:36 pm

Communications amongst humans before the flood were telepathic in nature, other than for a small vocabulary of spoken words used by priests for ritualistic purposes. This was enabled by the electrostatic charge near the Earths surface and by the plasma of the antique solar system in general, and involved the use of the right side of the human brain as Julian Jaynes notes. When this system of communication broke down after the flood due to electrostatic collapse, humans were forced to very quickly develop the kinds of speech we use now. There never were super-families of languages; the main language families are unrelated.
The Earth had a water vapor canopy that created an electrostatic environment that allowed for telepathic communications ... 690#p59597

With a water-vapor canopy, heaven and earth system #1 would be considerably different than our present system (#2). A greenhouse effect would be expected due to the heat generated by the sun-warmed canopy. Is there any evidence that greenhouse warmth once surrounded our globe?

The water vapor canopy may have more than doubled atmospheric pressure on earth. In this environment of heavier atmospheric pressure, healing would be more efficient. Many hospitals have pressurized rooms called Hyperbaric Rooms. Into these rooms oxygen is pumped under pressure and healing is miraculously speeded up. Very sick people and the severely burned are treated in this high pressure environment. [1] In the pre-flood, high efficiency atmosphere, reptiles could have grown to immense sizes, giant flying creatures could have flown more easily, and gigantism would have been much more likely. [2]


Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by lizzie » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:25 pm

1. The Human Question:

b) Modern man was brought here from elsewhere in the cosmos.

Aryans from Mars intermarry with Hunter–gatherers on Earth

Sons of god (Martians) intermarry with the “daughters of men” (hunter/gatherer women on Earth).

c) Modern man was genetically re-engineered from one of the hominids, most likely the Neanderthal

The Serpent People (Nagas) genetically alter humans who were originally telepathic and androgynous beings

(IMHO, hunter-gatherers were not primitive people; they had no need for technology in antediluvian times.)

Hunter-gatherers « Tyranny of the Prefrontal Cortex ... therers-2/
The !Kung Bushmen possess one of the most ancient unbroken cultural traditions in the world. As noted earlier, they belong genetically to one of the earliest lineages of the human race, dating back to before the takeover by the L3 lineage which now dominates the globe. Their technology, “if uncovered by an archeologist and taken in isolation, would place them in the late Stone Age.” Not surprisingly, anthropologists have been drawn to study them to gain insights into the earliest forms of human cognition. Merlin Donald describes how “myth and religion permeate every activity” of their daily lives from the way they hunt wild animals to the celebration of a girl’s first menstruation. The !Kung take their beliefs so seriously that they will rarely even discuss them; when they do, it’s only with hushed voices, and they’re afraid even to utter the names of their gods. Donald summarizes their mythical thought as “a unified, collectively held system of explanatory and regulatory metaphors.” He sees their sophisticated and complex ritual and myth as a paradigmatic example of how the human mind “has expanded its reach … to a comprehensive modeling of the entire human universe.”
Aryans from Mars: ... 690#p59584

"Aryans" is just another word for "Martians", because Aries is Mars. They escape - at the end of the last Kali Yuga - I think, at the end of every Kali Yuga - the same cycle occurs every time; it may even be why there is a Kali Yuga.

They come to Earth after the Earth is healed from the gigantic coronal-mass ejections which occur; and they come back in their ships, and they repopulate the Earth. They may even take genetic strains with them, which is what the genome project is; they may take all the seeds with them, which is what the seed project is.

So these are humans, but they went to Mars for a long time; and they lost the pigment in their skin, they lost the color in their hair, their eyes turned blue or green or hazel. They were tremendously big, because of the low gravity on Mars, when they landed here. Very advanced, super advanced - and they've been here for a very, very long time.
Serpent People invade planet Earth:

The myth mentions a water canopy and the fact that humans had great “powers of the mind”; they communicated telepathically with each other and with animals; and they lived in peace.
Great Zulu Shaman and Elder CREDO MUTWA
There was once a time when the blue sky was invisible, when the whole world was covered with mist. When you could not see the sun as it is now, you only saw it as a splash of white light moving slowly across the sky. At that time there was an eternal drizzle, ever day of the year. At that time, people could not see the stars. People, only saw the trees growing, trees which were very big, there was no desert at that time.

At that time sir, a human being was both male and female in one body, and out of the sky one day, came terrible objects. They were like gigantic bows made of huge gleaming gold.

At that time sir, human beings could not speak; we had no gift of language at that time. However, people had great mental power. A man would go into the bush and using the power of his mind actually call out an animal, which he wanted to hunt and kill for his children and the animal would appear and kneel down before the man and the man would kill the animal and take it home.

But, when the Chitawole arrived in Africa they told our people that they were gods. And that they were going to give us human beings great gifts on one condition, we had to worship them and accept them as our creators. Some told our people that they were our elder brothers and that this earth had produced them generations ago. And they said they had come back to the green womb of their mother, and that they were going to make us into gods.

What they did, they created a very strange pair of caves in the land. They dug two caves, in one cave was a green light and in another was a red light. And they drove the human beings into these caves and each human being had to choose which cave the human being wanted to go into. And those that went into the green cave came out as woman, and those that went into the red cave came out as men, and then, the Talkers, the Chitauri told our people that now they were perfect.

And then the Chitauri said if you serve us you retched little human beings, we are going to make you into gods. And the human being agreed to serve the Chitauri and the Chitauri gave human beings a second gift - the gift of language. People started talking with their tongue's where they were talking with there minds before.

All of these great powers the Chitauli took away from human beings and they gave human beings a new power, now, the power of speech. But, human beings found, to their horror, that the power of speech divided human beings, instead of uniting them, because the Chitauli cunningly created different languages, and they caused a great quarrel between people.

Also, the Chitauli did something which has never been done before: they gave human beings people to rule over them, and they said, “These are your kings, these are your chiefs. They have our blood in them. They are our children, and you must listen to these people because they will speak on our behalf. If you don’t, we are going punish you very terribly.”
Genesis of a New Space Age ... IX#page=31
Unbelievable, the tunnel Germans heard a story of how the Bodlanders some 30,000 years earlier had sought refuge in underground tunnels when attacked by a vicious race which had come out of the sky in space craft using superior weaponry to destroy their cities and kill their people by the millions. Only a few thousand survivors were left and they were pursued into mountainous caves.

"But completing the story of our ancient history, you know our surface nation was destroyed and our people hunted and killed by the millions when a vicious race from another planet named "The Serpent People" landed among us from spacecraft. Many of our ancestors were driven into caves for survival, where for many years they remained. They were never able to return to their native lands occupied by the alien invaders whom our astronomers believed came from a strange planet which intruded into our solar system and also caused the earlier ice age over our original lands.
2. Elaine Morgan's "Aquatic Ape" hypothesis.

Aquatic beings from Sirius genetically engineer humans:

The Master of Speech Overview
The Dogon talked of alien beings called Nummo who were associated with both the Sirius star system and the Pleiades. According to the Dogon, these immortal and amphibious beings were responsible for human creation through genetic engineering.
The Dogons Tribe and the return of the Nommos, Sirius Amphibious Gods ... ommos.html
The Dogon beliefs seem to have parallels in other ancient cultures. Possibly they lived in Egypt in ancient times and migrated to Western Africa later. Their beliefs are analogous to Sumerian and Egyptian ones. The fact that the Egyptian goddess Isis is sometimes depicted as a mermaid and is associated with the star Sirius can hardly be a coincidence.

The Dogon reportedly related a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius. The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. After arriving, the Nommos created a reservoir of water and subsequently dove into the water. The Dogon legends state that the Nommos required a watery environment in which to live.
Last edited by lizzie on Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by tholden » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:37 pm

lizzie wrote:The Human Question:

b) Modern man was brought here from elsewhere in the cosmos.

Aryans from Mars intermarry with Hunter–gatherers on Earth.....
I'm about to get to the evidence involving Mars. What I get isn't exactly what you describe but it sure as hell isn't a thesis in which advanced civilizations only ever occur on this particular planet.


Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by lizzie » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:11 pm

tholden said: I'm about to get to the evidence involving Mars. What I get isn't exactly what you describe but it sure as hell isn't a thesis in which advanced civilizations only ever occur on this particular planet.
Well, hopefully you can get a lively discussion going on Mars.

I am basing my ideas on the Nazi legend about the Aryans who came from Aldebaran and settled on Mars, Maldek and the Earth.

Ironically, this would fit in with the Saturn theory. Suppose that Mars, Maldek, Venus (ostensibly a moon of Mars or Maldek) and the Earth existed within Saturn’s “coma” (water vapor barrier). Aldebaran is relatively close to Saturn. The “war in the heavens” would be between Saturn and Jupiter. Interestingly many Nazis were members of the “Brotherhood of Saturn.” ... 690#p58643
The solar system Aldebaran has a sun around which revolve two inhabited planets that form the empire SUMERAN. The population of the Aldebaran system is divided into the master race of “light God people” and several other human races that had developed by negative mutation from the “God people” because of climatic changes upon the planets.

“Around 500 million years ago the “light God people” started to colonize other earth-like planets, after the expansion of the sun Aldebaran and the resulting heat had made the original planets uninhabitable. It is said that in our system they first colonized the planet Mallona (also called Maldek, Marduk or – by the Russians – Phaeton) which existed in the area of today’s asteroid belt, then between Mars and Jupiter. Mars was next. It is assumed that the master race of Sumeran-Aldebaran then also came to Earth for a first visit, witnessed by the petrified impressions of a shoe found to be about 500 million years old, and squashed under the heel a trilobite, a little crayfish that lived then upon Earth and became extinct about 400 million years ago.”
It is Richard Shaver's contention that in prehistoric times, when our solar system was young, Earth was inhabited by a race of cosmic super-beings who had come here from another solar system. Although the Elder Race were not truly immortals, they had discovered secrets of incredible longevity. This, together with their highly developed scientific technology, caused them to be regarded as gods by the primitive and unsophisticated humans. The Elder Race possessed fantastic mechanical devices, which Shaver calls "mech," capable of projecting three-dimensional images, scanning over great distances, curing diseases, producing food and clothing, and killing and destroying life when necessary.

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by tholden » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:24 pm

Item 8 in my little list, Mars:

The question of a former civilization on Mars is really huge in several ways. The evidence itself is overwhelming and obvious. The little moon Phobos for instance, as it appears in the new HIRISE images from 08:


That's right, the thing is artificial, some sort of an ancient space station, fifteen miles across. Real moons and satellites don't reflect light all over the place like that (they aren't made of metallic strakes like that); in theory they're made out of rock, dirt, green cheese and the like. Or the newer photos of the face megalith at Cydonia:


Again obviously artificial; Mother Nature does not do straight lines and Bezier curves on a three mile scale like that.

Again the main relevance to the Thunderbolts project: the cause of the denial state over this stuff at NASA is the paradigm lockout they get from believing the present conformation of our solar system to be primordial; that would not provide any way/reason to believe that Mars could ever have been habitable and we assume that nobody builds things on a megalithic scale with space suits on.

But before getting into any of that sort of thing, I'd like to talk about politics and money for a minute, and the manner in which a manned space program fits into that sort of calculus, i.e. I'd like to talk about the reason why this stuff is so gigantically important.

The nature of money itself, i.e. where it comes from, what it consists of, what it is based on, and who has the authority to issue it, was the biggest political issue of the 18'th and 19'th centuries. Ben Franklin in fact was called the "father of script money" in his own time and had been instrumental in establishing the script currencies which created a super economy in the colonies until English merchants ran squealing back to George II, who forbade the practice and enforced a gold standard for currency, crashing the colonies into depression. That was the real cause of the revolutionary war; nobody fights a war over a tax on tea.

Bankers would like us to believe that governments printing money always reduces the value of money (normally although wrongly called inflation), but it doesn't take much of a thought experiment to see the problem with that...
Consider for example the case of two shipwreck survivors on an island. They have five dollar bills between them left over from their previous life, and there are five clams on the island. A Dollar is obviously worth one clam. Nonetheless they also have a machete and some ink: the one guy hacks a coconut tree up and makes a crude printing press, produces five more dollar bills, and pays them to the second guy to dig up fifteen more clams.

That's right. There are now twenty clams on the island and ten dollar bills; the two of them have achieved a two for one increase in the value of money by doing the exact thing which is supposed to always DECREASE the value of money i.e. printing it. The only two things which are meaningful in such a picture are trust, and productivity.
In real life the main cause of inflation in the world is fractional reserve banking and the combination of a non-expandable standard (gold) for money AND fractional reserve banking in the 1700s and 1800s was absolutely toxic causing cycles of expansion and collapse until finally the powers which be implemented (more or less) Alexander Hamilton's idea of using federal debt as a basis for money in 1913, establishing a central bank (the Fed) and an income tax at the same time. The idea was to use federal debt as a basis for money, use the income tax to pay interest on the debt, and roll the principle over in perpetuity. The system was fragile at best, and a time bomb with a 100-year fuse at worst. The issue has been asleep for a century, but is in the process of waking up again.

Best take on the subject on the web is that of Ellen Brown, in LA:

She describes our present situation in articles on her own blog as well as Asia Times, Huffington Post etc. and several similar venues, e.g. ... 1321627102

My own short take:

Ellen Brown's ideas if fully implement would have a gigantic impact; they wouldn't solve all of our problems in life, but they'd solve a lot of them. But there's a potential problem and she recognizes it. The most efficient place to have the power to coin money would be the federal government, but nobody trusts the federal government that much. For the time being, she has been mainly focused on the public banking movement (banks CREATE money in our present system, that gives states like ND the power to create their own money at need). You might have noticed that ND has not shared in the present economic misery.

In order to implement her ideas fully, a nation such as ours would have to have some sort of a huge mission which was morally, intellectually, and economically defensible, and which was capable of utilizing the vast sums of money which the government would come into. At present the main driving engine for our economy is what I would call "War Incorporated" i.e. the military operations which have US service people in a hundred or so places in the world of which perhaps five or ten could be justified without doing violence to one's sense of logic.

GIVEN THE OBVIOUS EVIDENCE involved in those new images coming in from Mars, our own moon, the asteroid belt (Steins), and other parts of our system over the past dozen years, it seems equally obvious to me that the driving engine for restarting our economy had to be space exploration, on a hitherto unheard of scale.

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by GaryN » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:21 pm

I thought Edgar Cayce interesting, he did cure many people of assorted ills, and detailed records were kept and are available for anyone to study. Some of his readings were strange, to say the least, but ARE continue to search for evidence of Atlantis based on hs readings. We can speculate forever on our origins, but it could be along these lines.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller


Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by lizzie » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:46 am

Repeat after me, "there is no life on Mars". ;)

Remote Viewing Life On Mars: Part 1 ... r_embedded

Remote Viewing Life On Mars: Part 2 ... re=related

2012 - PART 1: A Remote-Viewing Experiment ... playnext=2

2012 - PART 2: A Remote-Viewing Experiment ... ure=fvwrel

Following the belief that the Germans had gained advanced technologies in the early 1940's (possibly from recovered crashed UFOs or through contact with an alien culture), this article by Vladimir Terziski, President of the American Academy of Dissident Sciences, is a study of the Germans involvement in the exploration of the Moon and Mars.

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by tholden » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:48 am

lizzie wrote:Repeat after me, "there is no life on Mars". ;)

Remote Viewing Life On Mars: Part 1 ... r_embedded

ASSUMING it were possible to remote view anything going on on another planet, and that's a really BIG assumption...
I don't see how it would be easy to ascertain WHAT planet you were seeing or WHEN whatever you were seeing was going on.

There DO seem to be trees on Mars at present, dead or alive no easy way to tell, but I am not aware of any claims of solid evidence of animal life there.

When I talk about some of this stuff, I try to keep a distinction between what I feel is known for certain and what is conjecture. Dave Talbott views some of the items on my little list of 12 topics as "wild conjecture" which I do not agree with, but I generally like to keep the two separated.

Basically, there is enough of the Mars evidence which is NOT conjecture that people should be talking about it.

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by tholden » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:02 am

The thing about the Hale Crater for instance is not conjecture: ... =10&t=4382

I've checked this one out myself, i.e. I've downloaded the image at the ESA site: ... =y&start=7

which looks like a bunch of sand and rocks. Nonetheless you need only convert to grey-scale, zoom a few times and start fiddling with brightness and contrast and presto-change:


i.e. tall buildings and city infrastructure. I mean, I don't really want to hear anybody's reasons for thinking that stuff is some sort of electrical scarring or natural formations and there's nothing in jpg or png software which could produce any sort of an artifact which looks like that; if you can't see that for what it is you need to be talking to an eye doctor.

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by tholden » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:17 pm

lizzie wrote:Repeat after me, "there is no life on Mars". ;)

Remote Viewing Life On Mars: Part 1 ... r_embedded

Remote Viewing Life On Mars: Part 2 ... re=related

First chance I'd had to get any sort of a look at some of this stuff, interesting... Have you had any contact with farview or any of these folks?

I mean, I'd bet against it but it is possible that a few humans might survive on Mars underground, but as I've noted there is evidence the ancient Martians tried to get out of the system when they saw the ****-storm coming, they wouldn't have had a way to know if anything in this system would remain habitable: ... scape.html

I'd assume they'd have tried to take everybody with and wouldn't knowingly have left anybody behind on the main planet.

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by tholden » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:16 am

Tom Van Flandern's Proof of Artificiality for the Face Megalith

The first images of the Mars Cydonia region sent back by the Viking probe in 1976 were low resolution and ambiguous. There appeared to be a humanoid face and several other megalithic and artificial structures but NASA's official take was that they were all just landforms and nobody could make much of an argument based on the evidence available. Nonetheless there was continuous pressure on NASA to reimage the Cydonia region and good images did start turning up around 1998 and afterwards, and those images were totally unambiguous:

Face Megalith:

Large ring pyramid:

Five-sided D&M pyramid:

The first time I saw those images I figured the debate was over. I mean, Mother Nature does not do straight lines or Bezier curves on a three-mile scale; she doesn't do equilateral triangles on a one mile scale or figures containing more than one equilateral triangle on that sort of scale, or structures containing rectangular court areas and multiple triangles on that sort of scale. My own take on these structures resides here: ... donia.html

Nonetheless, NASA GOES ON claiming that these structures are natural land formations and, worse, David Talbott and others at Thunderbolts persist in trying to claim something or other amorphous which I would interpret as:
"Well, uh, gee, that stuff is probably just land forms as NASA claims and if they AREN't landforms, then, well, uh, they must be electrical scars of some sort or some other sort of artifacts of plasma physics phenomena..."
Now, there are no shortage of people out there who refer to Tom Van Flandern and Richard Hoagland as kooks but, funny thing, Hoagland andVan Flandern have/had major league kinds of space science credentials and, you guessed it, none of the people calling them kooks do. In fact, none of the leadership echelon of Thunderbolts have any of those kinds of credentials either.

For the benefit of anybody who might still entertain doubts regarding the Cydonia megaliths after the newer and higher resolution images, Dr. Van Flandern offered a PROOF of their artificiality: ... /proof.asp

Basically, the face megalith passesthe normal mathematical fractal tests for artificiality.

In simplest terms, the face megalith looks MORE artificial the closer you get to it; that is in stark contrast with every sort of thing in which a cloud formation or rock formation bears any resemblance to something artificial or something from the living realm. In all such cases, the closer you get the LESS the formation looks lifelike or artificial.

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread post by Sparky » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:22 am

Face Megalith:

Large ring pyramid:

Five-sided D&M pyramid:
What face? :roll:

What pyramid? :roll:

Where are the five sides? :roll:

I can see faces on Mt. Rushmore.

I can recognize pyramids at giza.

An overhead view of the Pentagon looks to be 5 sided! 8-)

Why can't I see faces and these other things on mars, the moon, and on potato chips?... :roll:
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire


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