Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:54 am

Mgmirkin
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:04 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Okay, the above probably sounds a bit too "sure of myself," which I'm not. But still, the notion of "circuits" with respect to magnetic fields occurred to me a while back. Today I just happened to recall that someone had mentioned that magnetic fields MUST be closed and can't just amorphously "end." Hence, they can't reconnect, hence any point source of a field has to have both a start and and end at the body. No so much a start / end, as a circuit which intersects at least two points on the surface of the object.

Maybe it's too simple a conception, but it seems to make sense to me...

Seems to make sense to them too:

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/e ... ode35.html

Happened to google "magnetic field divergence" and it was like the 4th or 5th result. Heh. They seem to say the exact same thing. Which isn't to say we should succumb to any kind of confirmation bias. But they seem to have maths to back it up! Are their maths correct? I'm pretty sure that someone could look into it. I'd assume they would be (but, better safe than sorry)? They even say that magnetism is due to electric currents on the atomic / sub-atomic scale.

Ha! Love it!

Quote:
Can we produce an isolated North or South magnetic pole: for instance, by snapping a bar magnet in two? A compass needle would always point towards an isolated North pole, so this would act like a negative "magnetic charge." Likewise, a compass needle would always point away from an isolated South pole, so this would act like a positive "magnetic charge."

Image
Figure 32

It is clear from Fig. 32 that if we take a closed surface S containing an isolated magnetic pole, which is usually termed a magnetic monopole, then Image: the flux will be positive for an isolated South pole, and negative for an isolated North pole. It follows from Gauss' theorem that if Imagethen Image. Thus, the statement that magnetic fields are solenoidal, or that Image, is equivalent to the statement that there are no magnetic monopoles.

[...]

In conclusion, all steady magnetic fields in the Universe are generated by circulating electric currents of some description. Such fields are solenoidal: that is, they never begin or end, and satisfy the field equationImage

This, incidentally, is the second of Maxwell's equations. Essentially, it says that there is no such thing as a magnetic monopole. We have only proved that Imagefor steady magnetic fields, but, in fact, this is also the case for time-dependent fields (see later).
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:55 am

davesmith_au
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: Simple moments... Reply with quote
Michael, it really is as simple as you have said. A magnetic field is a continuum. It can only exist whilst there is a complete circuit. The field is seen to emerge from one end, and go it the other, and to complete a pictorial representation correctly one should draw the 'lines' through the centre of the magnet.

Reonnection is a total misrepresentation of the principles involved in magnetism. This is why Don Scott et al have written as much in their books.

Modern solar physics says that one end of a magnetic 'field line' can be anchored in the Sun and the other can flap around in the solar 'wind' somewhere. This is plain against the most basic of magnetic understanding. The 'line' must return to the Sun at some point, or not be in existence at all. To claim otherwise is an absurdity which is why those with electrical training so readily look towards EU for answers to many questions.

Just because we can't detect the whole path yet (and may never be able to, depends how big it is etc) is no reason to throw the natural physical laws out the window and start postulating 'reconnection' and 'breakage' and 'snapping' and 'knotting' of magnetic field 'lines'. These things cannot happen, and need to be replaced by the right story.

It is the moment the EE realizes that these things are postulated that he starts to think there's something wrong with the mainstream approach. This is well covered in The Electric Sky. What do you know, it was written by an Electrical Engineer?...
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:59 am

MGmirkin
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:55 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm, seems to be a sensible thing. Was rather fond of the technical explanation on the site referenced in my later post. Especially the part where they basically say "Thus, the statement that magnetic fields are solenoidal is equivalent to the statement that there are no magnetic monopoles."

That and "In fact, permanent magnetism is generated by electric currents circulating on the atomic scale, so this type of magnetism is not fundamentally different to the magnetism generated by macroscopic currents."

I agree, as stated previously, magnetic monopoles are bogus for exactly the same reason that magnetic reconnection is bogus. Magnetic fields only exist in closed loops ("magnetic circuits" {?}), and are only generated from closed electrical circuits in which currents circulate.

Closed magnetic field lines = circulating currents = closed electrical circuit.

Open magnetic field lines = open electric circuit = no current flow = no magnetic field (Uhh ohh, Spaghetti-Os! This violation, basically mean the notions of "magnetic reconnection" and "magnetic monopoles" with "open field lines" are kaput, in my opinion, if the assumptions are correct that a closed electric circuit with current flow is required to generate magnetic fields).
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:01 am

Stefanr
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
I always found this to make sense:

Quote:
I.Why are there no magnetically charged particles?
The better the conductivity of a medium is, the higher as a consequence the number of free
charge carriers is. the more strongly eddy currents are formed. The answer to question I is
inferred from the opposite case:
In the ideal vacuum no charge carriers at all are present, why no currents, no current
eddies and consequently no magnetic poles can exist.
With this well-known fact the first question already is answered. The question why in the
microcosm there can not exist magnetically charged elementary particles, why the search
for magnetic monopoles doesn't make any sense. Let's ask further:

II. Why are there only electrically charged particles?
Let us for that consider the dual conditions. The worse the conductivity of a medium is, the
more the potential vortex -will be favoured that because of this property also can be
understood as the vortex of the dielectric.
In the mentioned extreme case of the ideal vacuum, no electric conductivity is present for
reason of the missing charge carriers. But this circumstance favours the potential vortex
and that, according to fig. 4.2, forms electric poles and with this also the second question
would be answered clearly.
It can be traced back to the boundary conditions of the microcosm that without exception
electricallv charged particles are entitled to exist; a realization derived from the field-theoretical
approach.
Meyl states in effect what Michael is telling

http://www.meyl.eu/go/index.php?dir=30_ ... sublevel=0
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:01 am

Junglelord
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Good point StefanR. If one looks at the Smith three field dual vortex theory we come to the same conclusion.

And I agree with you mgmirkin, I was just showing how very much the two ideas are in opposition. Ed Witten is arguably the smartest mathematician alive today. Its difficult to take a point of view opposite Ed Witten.
Confused

Still I am convinced that we can create monopole like conditions without needing a monopole particle. That would be the Scalar Field, Spintronics work.
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:03 am

Seasmith
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
]

rc-us wrote:

Quote:
Okay, well now I see where you were coming from with that one (6 vortices ... the image below you posted in the "Greatest Mystery: What Causes Gravity" thread). Seems I recall from years ago, I site I ran across that showed how the hexagon form can be seen in the octahedron by simply adjusting the viewpoint, ie rotating the octahedron to a different perspective and the hexagon pops out. Something like that. The Red Square and Red Rectangle Nebulae/Galaxies probably shows basic octahedron "geo"metry.


Image



Quote:
The octahedron is a symmetrical eight sided shape that may look like two four sided pyramids lying base to base. But closer inspection will show that each set of opposing points is exactly the same and could serve equally well as the "top" and "bottom" of the two pyramids. In fact there is no top or bottom on isometric forms. The faces are equilateral triangles unless modified. There are six points, eight faces and twelve edges. Each face is parallel to the opposite face. The octahedron is related to the cube by placing each point of an octahedron at the center of each face of a cube. The mineral diamond commonly forms octahedrons.

http://www.galleries.com/minerals/prope ... htm#pedion

Guess it could be said that that an Octahedron:

spins on 3 axis
propagates 6 directions hexogonaly
displays 8 facet views
possesses 12-fold symetry
&
ecliptic plane is a 4-sided square

Not sure what this has to do with your Magnetism: thread, but does kinda relate to the Form, Structure, & Dynamics part.

*
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:06 am

Arc-us
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
One clever (that property of mind thing Cool ) method of creating the effect of a "monopole" for ... use. Smoke n' mirrors stuff, folks. Smile

Bill Beaty in NEODYMIUM SUPERMAGNETS SOME DEMONSTRATIONS wrote:



FAKE MONOPOLE

Have you ever magnetized a nail by stroking it with a magnet? Well, neodymium magnets are so powerful that you can magnitize A BAR MAGNET by stroking it with a neodymium slug. A stack of NIB cylinders works great for doing this. Teachers can strengthen their dead classroom bar magnets. You can use a small piece of NIB magnet to write your name on the face of a large ceramic loudspeaker magnet (then use iron filings or a "magnaview sheet" to see the writing.) You can mess with your teacher's mind by reversing the poles of one of those classroom magnets so the "N" label is actually south, and vice versa. Teachers can mess with students' minds by making a "monopole" magnet: use one end of your NIB stack and stroke a classroom bar magnet from the center and outwards. Do this to both ends and both sides of the bar, always starting from the center of the bar magnet and stroking towards the end, and always using the same pole of the NIB magnet stack. The result will be a bar magnet which is marked "N" and "S", but in fact both ends will be North, and there will be a big fuzzy South pole in the center (or vice versa, depending on how you held the NIB stack). If you wave your "monopole" magnet near a compass, the compass will show that both ends are the same! (Maybe you'll want to make another one which has two "S" poles. Maybe you'll want to paint "N" on both ends of your physics-joke magnet!)


http://amasci.com/amateur/neodymium.html


Is there something more to this, however? Perhaps relating to how the sun - mid-polar-reversal - temporarily shows the effect of a monopole e.g. 2 north poles? Solar smoke n' mirrors? Very Happy

A good mantra: simplify, simplify, simplify.

On a different note:

Bill Beaty on the same page wrote:


TWO-DIMENSIONAL "FLUID"

Place several disk-magnets in a slippery bowl so they repel each other. They form patterns. It's almost as if the magnets were the "atoms" of a gas or liquid. We can bring out this behavior even more strongly. Clamp a large number of tiny disk magnets between two glass plates. Put spacers around the edges of the plates so that the magnets can slide around. Now place the sandwitch on edge. The magnets lift up and "crystallize" in a hex array! But they can also slide around. WIth enough magnets, the region of "fluid" will exhibit surface waves (and also sound waves within the bulk "liquid", and even cavity resonances!)

It might help to lubricate the glass surface a bit. Also, place a row of fixed disks all around the edges in order to form the walls of a two-dimensional "beaker" which repels the "fluid" within.

http://amasci.com/amateur/neodymium.html


Compare with the polar hex at Saturn, including the wave structure around it. Cavity resonances ... hmm.
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:07 am

Junglelord
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Magnetic Tripole and Rodin Coil B Torsion Fields.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/torsion.htm

some more interesting coils and their effects.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/scalwidx.htm

Some notes on the Rodin Coil
Quote:

Notes from Jean-Louis Naudin This device uses the "possible" emission of a curl-free-A potential which radiates from the Rodin coil both to its inside or center space and outside and beyond into space. The device is being under tests and I can't confirm this fact today. Also I give you this electronic diagram for your information and I take no responsiblity concerning the supposed characteristics (Faster Than Light (FTL) transmissions, E.T. communications

Obviously if you hold all the B-Field inside the coils of the torus, and then put something else in the center region outside the coils, you can get some additional potential and field energy there in the center of works. You can also get similar propagation outside the coil, with effects on distant objects.

Rodin is apparently going by elementary electricity concepts but augmented by excellent native intuition. What he really is doing is attempting to separate the A-potential (i.e., the magnetic vector potential A) from the B-Field, and utilize the curl-free A-potential as an independent field of nature in the central "crossover" region. It is know that it is possible, the well known Aharonov-Bohm effect depends upon precisely this separation...¯

In the Rodin's document about the coil design:

A winding pattern for a torus which creates Synchronized Electricity. By winding in this manner, you orient the electrons moving through the windings and thereby minimize random collision of electrons, as well as heat, friction and reluctance. The right and left doubling circuits (beginning and ending at position 1; and, beginning and ending at position 2) conduct the flow of electrons in opposite, parallel diagonal directions. The dotted lines (beginning and ending on numbers which are multiples of 3) represent the gap spaces, the equal potential major grooves, which separate the winding.

Today, according to my first series of test, I can say that this coil have some interesting spec:

Obviously the center crossover region is active. A long ferrite rod placed through the center of the Rodin style coil change the value of the inductance. So, the center region in Rodin style coil is quite active.
Notes from Jean-Louis Naudin This device uses the "possible" emission of a curl-free-A potential which radiates from the Rodin coil both to its inside or center space and outside and beyond into space. The device is being under tests and I can't confirm this fact today. Also I give you this electronic diagram for your information and I take no responsiblity concerning the supposed characteristics (Faster Than Light (FTL) transmissions, E.T. communications

Obviously if you hold all the B-Field inside the coils of the torus, and then put something else in the center region outside the coils, you can get some additional potential and field energy there in the center of works. You can also get similar propagation outside the coil, with effects on distant objects.

Rodin is apparently going by elementary electricity concepts but augmented by excellent native intuition. What he really is doing is attempting to separate the A-potential (i.e., the magnetic vector potential A) from the B-Field, and utilize the curl-free A-potential as an independent field of nature in the central "crossover" region. It is know that it is possible, the well known Aharonov-Bohm effect depends upon precisely this separation...¯

In the Rodin's document about the coil design:

A winding pattern for a torus which creates Synchronized Electricity. By winding in this manner, you orient the electrons moving through the windings and thereby minimize random collision of electrons, as well as heat, friction and reluctance. The right and left doubling circuits (beginning and ending at position 1; and, beginning and ending at position 2) conduct the flow of electrons in opposite, parallel diagonal directions. The dotted lines (beginning and ending on numbers which are multiples of 3) represent the gap spaces, the equal potential major grooves, which separate the winding.

Today, according to my first series of test, I can say that this coil have some interesting spec:

Obviously the center crossover region is active ,.. .A long ferrite rod placed through the center of the Rodin style coil change the value of the inductance.... So, the center region in Rodin style coil is quite active...¯

Notes from Jean-Louis Naudin This device uses the "possible" emission of a curl-free-A potential which radiates from the Rodin coil both to its inside or center space and outside and beyond into space. The device is being under tests and I can't confirm this fact today. Also I give you this electronic diagram for your information and I take no responsiblity concerning the supposed characteristics (Faster Than Light (FTL) transmissions, E.T. communications

Obviously if you hold all the B-Field inside the coils of the torus, and then put something else in the center region outside the coils, you can get some additional potential and field energy there in the center of works. You can also get similar propagation outside the coil, with effects on distant objects.

Rodin is apparently going by elementary electricity concepts but augmented by excellent native intuition. What he really is doing is attempting to separate the A-potential (i.e., the magnetic vector potential A) from the B-Field, and utilize the curl-free A-potential as an independent field of nature in the central "crossover" region. It is know that it is possible, the well known Aharonov-Bohm effect depends upon precisely this separation...¯

In the Rodin's document about the coil design:

A winding pattern for a torus which creates Synchronized Electricity. By winding in this manner, you orient the electrons moving through the windings and thereby minimize random collision of electrons, as well as heat, friction and reluctance. The right and left doubling circuits (beginning and ending at position 1; and, beginning and ending at position 2) conduct the flow of electrons in opposite, parallel diagonal directions. The dotted lines (beginning and ending on numbers which are multiples of 3) represent the gap spaces, the equal potential major grooves, which separate the winding.

Today, according to my first series of test, I can say that this coil have some interesting spec:

Obviously the center crossover region is active ,.. .A long ferrite rod placed through the center of the Rodin style coil change the value of the inductance.... So, the center region in Rodin style coil is quite active.
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/rodin.htm

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/rcoil.htm


Some notes on a curl free magnetic vector scalar field. Interesting take considering the way I now view the universe thanks to Meyl and Smith.


Quote:
A system for transmission of information using a curl-free magnetic vector potential radiation field. The system includes current-carrying apparatus for generating a predominantly curl-free magnetic vector potential field coupled to apparatus for modulating the current applied to the field generating apparatus. Receiving apparatus includes a detector with observable properties that vary with the application of an applied curl-free magnetic vector potential field. Analyzing apparatus for determining the information content of modulation imposed on the curl-free vector potential field is coupled to the detector. The magnetic vector potential field can be established in materials that are not capable of transmitting more common electromagnetic radiation. The receiver may detect changes of phase of the sine function which determines the Josephson junction current. The distance of the transmitter can be determined from the strength of the received signal. By generating a field of predetermined orientation and using a detector responsive to orientation, the direction of the transmitter may be determined. A rotating field may be used for this.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP0050523.html

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tepvppl.htm
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:11 am

Arc-us
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:07 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Re the rodin coil stuff. Looks to me like the bulk of the conceptual thoughts on these pages is projecting wishful and fanciful notions on conventional EM observed effects. Though, granted, the pictures of the difference of the magnetic field surrounding the rodin style show enough structure difference that some clever engineer might make use of it in some way ... vis-a-vis the broader, stronger "windmilling" Lictenberg patterning vs traditional coil design. Very interesting that (the Lictenberg formations). http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/magpict.htm (pictures load slowly)

Image

Quote:
"Notes from Jean-Louis Naudin This device uses the "possible" emission of a curl-free-A potential which radiates from the Rodin coil both to its inside or center space and outside and beyond into space."


Quote:
"The purpose in this experiment is to try to generate a sufficient torsion effect in B-Field so as to generate a magnetic vortex in the Aether itself. A vortex is an open system and it has self-sustained capabilities as long as a differential pressure exists between two layers (see the Vortex in the bottle experiment ). So, if it is possible to generate a double vortex in the Aether it seems possible to build a self-sustained open system to get Free Energy forever from the vacuum itself." (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/magvtx.htm



Perhaps my own lay misunderstanding but this sounds suspiciously like open circuitry to me. I don't see any thing "open system" about a vortex. And a "curl-free" anything sounds like a straght line going (or connecting to) nowhere. There's nothing "open" about his vortex in a bottle demonstration.

Rather than extrapolating unusual phenomenology and topology from cross-sectional type 2D pics it would be interesting to see the full field.

But really just sounds like traditional smoke n' mirrors to me under scientific-sounding double-talk/terminology.

This looks familiar.

Quote:
[url]You will find below some magnetic spectrum pictures of rectangular magnets in different configurations. I have used a Magnetic Imager film ( Magnaview ). This kind of film can be found at : http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet38.html[/url]
Image
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:11 am

Junglelord
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Reply with quote
I both agree with you and disagree. Granted in the link I gave the indications they state are not all forth coming from the device coils...although as pointed out some interesting magnetic fields with lack of inductance were achieved.

But did not Howard Johnson say there are three types of Amperian Current, the third one being a planar vortex? So a magnetic curl made flat is a form of enegy as far as I can see and a special condition of a vortex that is not a flat line but a planar vortex.

Did not Nikola Tesla send longitudinal current wireless and with one wire? Is that not an open system?

It really stands to reason based on a three field universe that a open gradient scalar field could be a universal supply of energy>
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:12 am

MGmirkin
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
junglelord wrote:
How can a magnetic monopole be bogus?
The present day model would have you believe the electron has a negitive charge only. Would that not be a magnetic monopole?
Not that I believe that model.
Wink


Nor that I believe in magnetic monopoles. But a scalar wave may be able to function like one, just like Howard Johnson can make permanet magents behave like one.
Wink


No, that's an electric monopole... Different beast.

Electric monopoles: yes (elementary charges).
Magnetic monopoles: no (broken field lines = broken circuit = no current flow = no field; can't have non-looping, non-complete field lines, correct?)

Though in a discussion elsewhere, there seems to be something of a chicken / egg paradox with magnetic field lines as complete loops, versis magnetic monopoles.

Has to do with whether magnetic fields have zero divergence. If magnetic monopoles exist, there is divergence. If magnetic monopoles do not exist, then fields do not diverge.

Or, going the opposite direction: if magnetic fields can be divergent, monopoles likely exist. If magnetic fields are not divergent, then magnetic monopoles can't exist.

According to interpretation of Maxwell's Wonderful Equations, anyway...

Current evidence has not turned up any hard evidence for magnetic monopoles, and it's generally accepted (I think) that magnetic fields are non-divergent. If the latter is the case, then evidence appears to indicate that magnetic monopoles do NOT exist, to a relatively high confidence level (assuming one accepts that magnetic fields are non-divergent, and that by proxy via Maxwell's equations it means the monopoles can't exist), and the onus is upon anyone claiming that monopoles and/or "broken" field lines exist to quantitatively prove it. Until such time, both notions appear to be "myth busted."
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:17 am

MGmirkin
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
@rc-us wrote:
One clever (that property of mind thing Cool ) method of creating the effect of a "monopole" for ... use. Smoke n' mirrors stuff, folks. Smile

Bill Beaty in NEODYMIUM SUPERMAGNETS SOME DEMONSTRATIONS wrote:



FAKE MONOPOLE

Have you ever magnetized a nail by stroking it with a magnet? Well, neodymium magnets are so powerful that you can magnitize A BAR MAGNET by stroking it with a neodymium slug. A stack of NIB cylinders works great for doing this. Teachers can strengthen their dead classroom bar magnets. You can use a small piece of NIB magnet to write your name on the face of a large ceramic loudspeaker magnet (then use iron filings or a "magnaview sheet" to see the writing.) You can mess with your teacher's mind by reversing the poles of one of those classroom magnets so the "N" label is actually south, and vice versa. Teachers can mess with students' minds by making a "monopole" magnet: use one end of your NIB stack and stroke a classroom bar magnet from the center and outwards. Do this to both ends and both sides of the bar, always starting from the center of the bar magnet and stroking towards the end, and always using the same pole of the NIB magnet stack. The result will be a bar magnet which is marked "N" and "S", but in fact both ends will be North, and there will be a big fuzzy South pole in the center (or vice versa, depending on how you held the NIB stack). If you wave your "monopole" magnet near a compass, the compass will show that both ends are the same! (Maybe you'll want to make another one which has two "S" poles. Maybe you'll want to paint "N" on both ends of your physics-joke magnet!)

http://amasci.com/amateur/neodymium.html


Is there something more to this, however? Perhaps relating to how the sun - mid-polar-reversal - temporarily shows the effect of a monopole e.g. 2 north poles? Solar smoke n' mirrors? Very Happy


Except that it DOESN'T display a "monopole" configuration! A monopole would have only one pole in ALL directions.

What Beatty refers to as a "fake" monopole is probably more correctly referred to as a quadrupole! IE, rather than the usual "dipole" configuration with ONLY two poles (a north at one end, and a south at the other end):

Image

The quadrupole (in 2 dimensional cross-section), by contrast, has 4 poles!

(Quadrupole field vectors)
Image

(Quadrupole field lines; a simpler line drawing)

Image
(A diagram of how to think of the field using 4 bar magnets)
Image

In essence, what Beatty is saying is that in his "fake" monopole, you magnetize the ends to be the the same pole as the opposite end. However, their field lines close at the equator. So, the best way to think of it is probably like the diagram with 4 magnets. You can see that the top and bottom have north poles pointing outward (the "fake monopole"). However, at the equator, the north poles are facing inward and the south poles are facing outward.

Keep in mind, of course that in 3D space, the "equator" would be a ring around the center of the object, whereas the poles would be roughly antipodal [diametrically opposite] points along the axis.

Hopefully that clears things up! Smile

Now, if one wanted to create a truer "fake monopole," then the two magnets along the horizontal in the diagram would also need to have north facing outward and south facing inward. In 3D space, all 3 axes would need to have north facing outward and south facing inward. However, I doubt this would be a stable and even configuration. If one was working with a cube, then the 6 sides would each appear to be north. However, in reality, the field lines would have to loop back somewhere. So, it might be that the edges or the corners of the cube would then be the south poles (on a real magnet).

To get a real "magnetic monopole," you'd have to magnetize an increasingly large [infinitely large] number of points on the surface of a polygon with an increasing number [infinite number] of vertices / faces. In fact, literally every point [infinitely many] on the surface of a sphere would have to be magnetized with "north" facing outward and south facing inward to be considered a true magnetic monopole. And I just don't think it's ever going to happen...
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:18 am

Krackonis
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
junglelord wrote:
I both agree with you and disagree. Granted in the link I gave the indications they state are not all forth coming from the device coils...although as pointed out some interesting magnetic fields with lack of inductance were achieved.

But did not Howard Johnson say there are three types of Amperian Current, the third one being a planar vortex? So a magnetic curl made flat is a form of enegy as far as I can see and a special condition of a vortex that is not a flat line but a planar vortex.

Did not Nikola Tesla send longitudinal current wireless and with one wire? Is that not an open system?

It really stands to reason based on a three field universe that a open gradient scalar field could be a universal supply of energy>



(On Tesla) Actually, I think he made direct DC, but from my understanding didn't the return "current" flow back thru the ground?

Interestingly I postulated this might matter:

A magnetic field is a spiraling wake made when electrons (which naturally spiral in and out in the electron shell, depending on their energy) are forced to deviate from around a proton (The Proton being perhaps absorbing the gyroscopic vortices)

I only state this because it's obvious that gyroscopic motion (spiraling) is related here. I can't quite link it together in my mind ;P
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:21 am

MGmirkin
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
junglelord wrote:
Magnetic Tripole and Rodin Coil B Torsion Fields.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/torsion.htm


(Had an image or two of a "tripole" in action...)
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tripole.htm

However, this appear to be no different than a "quadrupole," except that they didn't put a fourth compass in place on the 4th side to match the quadrupole diagram.

Image

Image

I'm rather certain that this is in fact a "quadrupole."

Image

And now that I happen to notice it, this seems to be an excellent example of "bipolar symmetry" as seen in "bipolar nebulae." I wonder if they have common cause, insofar as the currents involved drive the magnetic fields involved, and the magnetic fields drive the bipolar symmetry?

Examples might include:

Eta Carinae
Image

The Rotten Egg or Calabash Nebula
Image

Menzel 3 (the Ant Nebula)
Image

Beautiful!
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:23 am

Mgmirkin
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
I rather wish they'd expand upon this page:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/magpict.htm

If I understand correctly, they're having two vortices at the poles (electrically / magnetically induced) and then "interesting things" are happening along the equator...

Frankly, the images make me think of the "solar wind" as a plasma /electrical process along the equator. I'm just wondering if their images would be equivalent (equatorial) to the processes going on equatorially at the sun... IF so, those images might be a good way of visualizing the solar wind. I also notice the rather feathery / filamentary nature of a few of the image (apparently one of two modes?), and its relative similarity to the featheriness of Lichtenberg figures. Not an entirely unwelcome parallel to make (to put it lightly). Wink
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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