Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:47 pm

SeaSmith
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: Magnetism; form struct, etc Reply with quote
~
MGMirkin wrote:
Quote:
I guess I'll claim first "notice" ... What do I see?
Points to ponder:



auroral earth entry;
Image
Auroral Oval at the north pole.

http://solarcycle24.com/
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:49 pm

Arc-us
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: Reply with quote
That Earth oval auroral shot would seem to correlate well with the magnetic topology graph on pg 1 of the thread. Where it shows that each pole is composed each of both N/S elements only with the N dominating, I think it was. One of the captions prior to it explains it. Anyway, that might account for the "lopsided" gradient (EDIT: seen in the yellow/brown, dark-blue/light-blue color shading areas) in the auroral graphic? Just guessing; can't tell from just one static shot.

Also, is helpful I think to imagine the cubic magnet illustration as a 3D spherical shape. That would give a dual-torus or 3D figure-8 with voids at both poles. The "magnetic currents" if they exist would follow the "lines" as illustrated in the cube except in a spherical form (i.e. no corners). I like the idea of magnetic currents/flows since Leedskalnin first planted the notion in his sorta strange way when I read him years ago, but I could never get a reconciled picture with conventional electrical theory, which more or less views a (bar) magnet as a static dipole field-alignment if I'm not mistaken. And I believe that's pretty much the way current EU theory goes, correct me if I'm mistaken? With the dictum that you cannot have a magnetic field without an electrical current then ... something ... must be flowing ("currenting") within a bar magnet to produce the phenomenon - not just a "frozen-in," static alignment of dipole atoms.

Well, enough armchair rambling from me for now.
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:49 pm

Junglelord
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:23 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes a up to date and current Laughing model of the EU needs to incorporate much new data from old pioneers of inductance (Faraday) electricity (Tesla), permanent magnets (Johnson). Several leading people have suggest identical three field models, which seems to be one direction to unify fields and observations. From the study of Einstein-Cartan-Evans Theory and NMR technology one gets a feel for the nucleus of the atom existing as a free floating magnet, spinning its' ends like it was a bar magnet moving through a dual cone system. This motion is known as precession. With the AG metals Copper, Aluminum, and Bismuth the Electron shell is neutral and the nucleus of the atom is free to be manipulated using external magnetic fields.

Torsion is propagated through a magnetic field, we have seen this in the spining copper experiments. Since the Neutron has no magnetic field to speak of this leaves the Proton as the component able to extend the torsion of the nucleus outwards to couple with other atoms in matter. As the Proton is in precession its spin will be propagated outwards in a cone shape off the ends of the magnetic field.

While we see the magnetic field may become coherent in a magnet, the torsion forces of the atom are probably also propagated through matter through the isotope chains at the Protons layer and do not all function independently. NMR charts will reveal that all the atoms have some measure of a Proton magnetic field which is not true at the electron layer, where most atoms are neutral. This is why every atom has a unique signature on an MRI scan.

The mass of the atom is located at the nucleus and would at first appear to be free to spin or turn independently of the electron shell that is locked into the materials structure. However due to the nature of the Protons to form an isotope chain through the materials, the torsion forces are coupled and any one mass of an object becomes a coherent torsion field. Thus any large disc set to motion becomes only one torsion force, however we see that torsion now is seen to move through the precession angles as well and is not all setting in one alignment in the isotope chain but at approximately cone shaped angles of 45 degrees.

Torsion will propagate along the 45 degree angle as well as the diamagnetic field, and with it is a pull on the primary scalar gradient field. Now if we hit the cones with a short magnetic pulse we will disturb the 45 degree isotope link between atoms and the primary scalar gradient field in the matter will loose coherence for a short recovery time until the isotope chains can reestablish their magnetic links. If the pulse is kept short enough that it does not create a tremendous inductive drag on their spin this should give the cones a reduced torsion and increase their velocity even more.

The reaction of the protons motion to short pulsed EM DC surges can and was utilized by Tesla with equal copper mass coils to power the Impulse Magnifying Transmitter in which a RF resonant frequency standing wave was set up.
Cool


A new find.
Spin Currents and Torsion Currents in Plasma.
http://www22.pair.com/csdc/pdf/chapman.pdf
http://www22.pair.com/csdc/pdf/helical6.pdf
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:51 pm

MGmirkin
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: Reply with quote
junglelord wrote:
From the study of Einstein-Cartan-Evans Theory and NMR technology one gets a feel for the nucleus of the atom existing as a free floating magnet, spinning its' ends like it was a bar magnet moving through a dual cone system. This motion is known as precession.



Why does this remind me of some varied material I just read on gyroscopes?

Hmm...
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:51 pm

MGmirkin
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: Reply with quote
@rc-us wrote:
I like the idea of magnetic currents/flows since Leedskalnin first planted the notion in his sorta strange way when I read him years ago, but I could never get a reconciled picture with conventional electrical theory, which more or less views a (bar) magnet as a static dipole field-alignment if I'm not mistaken. And I believe that's pretty much the way current EU theory goes, correct me if I'm mistaken? With the dictum that you cannot have a magnetic field without an electrical current then ... something ... must be flowing ("currenting") within a bar magnet to produce the phenomenon - not just a "frozen-in," static alignment of dipole atoms.

Well, enough armchair rambling from me for now.


Time for some arm chair rambling from me then? Wink

I think it probably does boil down to an electrical phenomenon, at the atomic level. Granted, the charge carriers are "relatively" bound. IE, the electrons are more or less bound to their atoms. Though, in metals, the electrons are somewhat free to move about...

Doesn't current theory somewhat say that it's the collective motion of these charge carriers that qualify as the atomic or sub-atomic "electron currents" (around the nucleus or in circuits around several nuclei {?}) that sustain the magnetic field?

IE, in a magnet, perhaps the electrons end up in some kind of a lockstep with other electrons in the overall material, thus creating something like a molecular current.

One assumes the protons are relatively "bound" to the nucleus, thus don't move as much as the electrons, so the electrons are probably the prime movers and shakers in the dance. {?}

So, I'm thinking that in non-magnetic substances, the electrons are in relatively random motion about their nuclei, so no overall "current" exists. Rather they're in something more like a state of excited random motion.

Whereas, in magnets, they've somehow (externally applied magnetic field and/or electric current) been forced into lockstep, where they all move in much the same path around their respective nuclei, or in some shared path around various nuclei?

Electric current is ostensibly the bulk flow of like charge in the same direction. So, if you've got all the electrons doing the same dance, in the same direction(s) at the same time, perhaps that qualifies as the driving "current" to set up the magnetic field?

It's late, and I'm either being really smart, or really dumb (it's always a cr@pshoot late at night; sublime or ridiculous?). Maybe I'll let someone else decide that.
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:52 pm

MGmirkin
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: Reply with quote
@rc-us wrote:
That Earth oval auroral shot would seem to correlate well with the magnetic topology graph on pg 1 of the thread. Where it shows that each pole is composed each of both N/S elements only with the N dominating, I think it was. One of the captions prior to it explains it. Anyway, that might account for the "lopsided" gradient in the auroral graphic? Just guessing; can't tell from just one static shot.


I wonder if it at all accounts for the reason the magnetic pole doesn't appear to line up with the spin axis... IE, I was noticing that there seemed to be a lopsided-ness to the field lines. Wondered if that's the reason the earth's field appears lop-sided, or off-axis. IE, if one of the charges dominates in the 4-vortex or 4-circuit diagram, would that be enough to throw off the "apparent" axis from the actual spin axis?

I don't know if that question is quite coherent, or makes sense. It makes sense to me at the moment. But it's late, and sometimes weird things come out of my mouth at night. Wink

Or is it that the magnetic field slowly rotates like the tip of a gyroscope? Or both?
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:54 pm

Junglelord
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Something to think about concerning spin fields. This model of the five fields of magnatism is interesting as it deals at the atomic level. The work of Howard Johnson has helped us to better understand the idea of a bar magnet. But as I am reading about NMR and spin torsion fields we get down to the next level of spin and magnetic fields and opposite vortex duals.

Image

A list of the five component field sources for Scalar Gradient spin:
1 - Electron Particle Spin
2 - Electron Orbital Spin
3 - Proton Particle Spin
4 - Proton Orbital Spin
5 - Neutron Particle Spin

The Scalar Gradient Field drops off as a function of inverse distance and in this sense is linear.

The Electric Divergence Field drops off as a function of inverse distance squared because two scalar vectors are required to construct it.

The Magnetic Curl Field drops off as a function of inverse distance cubed because it is a volume or three scalar vector components.

These are the appearance of the first three forces. Time, Electric, and Magnetic fields. The nature of Scalar vectors interacting in quadrature.
http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/Time_Vector_Model.htm

Image

Here we see what may happen if the Electron is quickly hit with an EM field in copper wire. The E field spin tilts first at very high velocity capable of a rotation in the Ghz range. Any pulse that is faster then the NMR rate will separate the two fields for an equalization time as long as one second. A sharper pulse will separate them more fully. Torsion propagation collapses and density increases lowering c at the nucleus. Dual opposing spin disappears at this angle between the particles. Electron accelerates and looses mass, and nuclear mass increases, slowing. Nuclear mass has lost its counter rotating electron influence, and Electrons dual spin can now cancel more fully.

Some interesting thoughts on spin torsion fields and NMR
http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/Motion.htm
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:55 pm

Krackonis
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
@rc-us wrote:
mgmirkin wrote:
.... Certain things "line up," so to speak.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin


Works for me. Guess I wasn't payin' attention when I saw the solar circuit diagram, didn't make the - now that you point it out - obvious connection to similarities to the others. Probably works as well for the planetary circuits I imagine. Will be interesting to have a re-look at Saturn in this context, not to mention our own Earth and the others. Good job.

bryan



MG et all,

Notice however, Magnets go OUT on the Poles and in on the Equator, Oppose the sun. In on the Pole, out along the Equator.

Hmmm... Wink
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:56 pm

Arc-us
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
This is probably from far out in left-field, but mulling over the recent posts here and from a few other scattered threads got me wondering if this - viewed as a 3D structure - wouldn't stand as a good model for the core ("nucleus") of stars and planets.

Image

The more I try to arrive at the most simple expression of various technical complexities of description it seems the "model" that works best for me so far is that the phenomenal heart of all existing processes is the oscillatory/vibratory relationship between void/cavitation-and-substance (emptiness and form to use the Eastern parlance or frame of reference). Perhaps I'm way shy of the mark, but I'm not so sure. I'm starting to see the basic relationships illustrated above, if not the actual structure itself - with contextual variations - as possibly being manifest at every scalable feature of our universe; from atomic nuclei to the heart of galaxies and nebulae. Not unlike our own rhythmically thumping, chambered hearts, to wax a bit on the poetical side (if one could call it such). Cool

In other words, I'm thinking the above picture may be an excellent model for the core of the sun, the planets, the biological cell, and the atomic nucleus. Emptiness at the core sur-rounded with a full array of substantial complex boundary (double-layer) conditions.

I can also see in it the foundational principle and literal representation of what charge is all about.

Ok, sorry. Just my peaceful Saturday afternoon moment of epiphany from the void of the Twilight Zone or Outer Limits. Cool Very Happy

bryan

p.s. for those who remember (with slight modification):

There is nothing wrong with your computer. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat, there is nothing wrong with your computer. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to ....

No, junglelord, that is not an ode to the "Guardian" Wink
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:58 pm

Arc-us
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Krackonis wrote:
MG et all,

Notice however, Magnets go OUT on the Poles and in on the Equator, Oppose the sun. In on the Pole, out along the Equator.

Hmmm... Wink


You sure you aren't mixing ionic current flow with magnetic directional flow (I'm still chewing on "what" may or may not be flowing as magnetic struture; maybe it is more like a vibratory or oscillatory field alignment like Michael points out, their lockstep motions, whether random or not). There's that equatorial "pinch" of the magnetic figure-8 double torus which forms the radial ring currents (solar wind of the sun, ring structure of the "gas giants, Van Allen radiation belt of the Earth). Polar ion currents of the sun, gas giants, earth's auroral sheets.

Anyway, maybe you can expand a little on what you said? I'm not exactly the sharpest knife in the block. Confused
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:59 pm

Krackonis
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: Reply with quote



Well in the magnet, the Magnetic fields leave the top of the N pole of the magnet, diverge and loop back towards the center. It seems the N pole of the sun the lines are streaming in, and the equator is sending them out.

Your right I could be confusing Magnetic lines for electric lines, but I'm over my head a bit here anyways ;P

Basically, the Vortices spin in the opposite direction on the sun than on magnets. I am just wondering if that is important.
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:00 pm

Arc-us
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess this is what I'm not understanding. If you look at the comparative pictures on the previous page the directional arrows of the quadrant fields from the magnet illustration and the directional arrows from quadrant fields of the sun illustration are going in the same direction. Or are you referring to different vortices?
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:02 pm

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Reply with quote
mgmirkin wrote:

Time for some arm chair rambling from me then? Wink

I think it probably does boil down to an electrical phenomenon, at the atomic level. Granted, the charge carriers are "relatively" bound. IE, the electrons are more or less bound to their atoms. Though, in metals, the electrons are somewhat free to move about...

Doesn't current theory somewhat say that it's the collective motion of these charge carriers that qualify as the atomic or sub-atomic "electron currents" (around the nucleus or in circuits around several nuclei {?}) that sustain the magnetic field?

IE, in a magnet, perhaps the electrons end up in some kind of a lockstep with other electrons in the overall material, thus creating something like a molecular current.

One assumes the protons are relatively "bound" to the nucleus, thus don't move as much as the electrons, so the electrons are probably the prime movers and shakers in the dance. {?}

So, I'm thinking that in non-magnetic substances, the electrons are in relatively random motion about their nuclei, so no overall "current" exists. Rather they're in something more like a state of excited random motion.

Whereas, in magnets, they've somehow (externally applied magnetic field and/or electric current) been forced into lockstep, where they all move in much the same path around their respective nuclei, or in some shared path around various nuclei?

Electric current is ostensibly the bulk flow of like charge in the same direction. So, if you've got all the electrons doing the same dance, in the same direction(s) at the same time, perhaps that qualifies as the driving "current" to set up the magnetic field?

It's late, and I'm either being really smart, or really dumb (it's always a cr@pshoot late at night; sublime or ridiculous?). Maybe I'll let someone else decide that.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin


Some random thoughts, not necessarily following the same sequence as yours above (I'm too lazy at the moment to separately quote individual paragraphs):

1)
Wikipedia <cough><cough> - Magnet wrote:
Magnetization
Main article: Magnetization


Magnetic poles
Although for many purposes it is convenient to think of a magnet as having distinct north and south magnetic poles, the concept of poles should not be taken too literally: it is merely a way of referring to the two different ends of a magnet. The magnet itself may be homogeneous; there are not distinct "north" or "south" particles on opposing sides, and no Magnetic monopole has yet been observed. If a bar magnet is broken in half, in an attempt to separate the north and south poles, the result will be two bar magnets, each of which has both a north and south pole.

At best, the idea of north and south poles is a sometimes-useful simplified model for understanding a magnet's behavior. This is called the "Gilbert Model" of a magnetic dipole.[1] However, this model does not always give correct results. A much better model is the "Ampère Model", where all magnetization is due to macroscopic "bound currents", also called "Ampèrearian currents". For example, for a uniformly magnetized bar magnet in the shape of a cylinder, the net effect of the atomic currents is to make the magnet behave as if there is a sheet of current flowing around the cylinder, with local flow direction normal to the cylinder axis. A right-hand rule due to Ampère tells us how the currents flow, for a given magnetic moment. Align the thumb of your right hand along the magnetic moment, and with that hand grasp the cylinder. Your fingers will then point along the direction of current flow.


Pole naming conventions
The north pole of the magnet is the pole which (when the magnet is freely suspended) points towards the magnetic north pole (in northern Canada). Since opposite poles (north and south) attract while like poles (north and north, or south and south) repel, the Earth's present geographic north is thus actually its magnetic south. Confounding the situation further, the Earth's magnetic field occasionally reverses itself.

In order to avoid this confusion, the terms positive and negative poles are sometimes used instead of north and south, respectively.

As a practical matter, in order to tell which pole of a magnet is north and which is south, it is not necessary to use the earth's magnetic field at all. For example, one calibration method would be to compare it to an electromagnet, the poles of which can be identified via the right-hand rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnets


Sounds like geographic north (i.e. magnetic south) as referenced above and true magnetic north represents the dual N/S at each pole seen as illustrated in the topology graphic of the N/S duality on pg 1 of this thread.

2.
PowerLabs Plasma Globes Page wrote:
When current flows, people have described electrons moving in one direction and positive ions moving the other way. This in fact occurs in certain circuits, which rely on the electrochemical transfer of atoms of an electrode through an electrolyte material. This process occurs in batteries. This does not occur in IGDTs (Inert Gas Discharge Tubes) or typical semiconductor circuits. While the electrons do in fact move from atom to atom, the atoms themselves pretty much remain where they are. Light is emitted when an atom loses an electron, thereby changing to a lower energy level. This happens to the atoms in the slurry of gas millions and millions of times per second as the electrons make their way along the plasma trail. This means they are constantly changing their state of charge relative to their neighbors and they'll just bounce around willy-nilly all over the place. As a result, the positive ions do not remain positive ions for long. Even if they did and even though it is true that positive ions would be slightly attracted to a negatively charged electrode at one end, they really don't move much because the physical forces of pressure continuously act to keep the gas evenly distributed throughout the tube. Some people call the places left behind when an electron leaves an atomic orbit a hole oddly enough, which technically makes the atom a positive ion. It is said that the holes move one way while electrons move the opposite way. Holes are not actually things or particles as electrons are so even though both statements made about what is moving is technically true, I prefer to say the electrons are moving rather than the absence of them or the nothingness. In either case, the atoms themselves pretty much stay put. Proof of this is simple to observe. Just look at the light emitted in a normal florescent tube. Pretty evenly distributed isn’t it?

http://www.powerlabs.org/plasmaglobes.h ... %20Details:


Sounds related to the idea I have about the relationship of void to substance.

So maybe substance (protons, ions) more or less sits there and vibrates/oscillates to beat the band while electrons "drift," leaving "holes" (cavities, voids) which can also be considered to flow in the opposite direction from the electron drift. While energy is transmitted instantaneously through the media of all this relatively stationary vibratory field(s). And through transduction it (the energy) is transformed into all the manifold wonders for which we have sensory receptors and beyond.

3) How commercial grade permanent magnets are produced is interesting. Sintering. Pressure and temperature. I've forgotten most of what I've studied in the past and probably should revisit it. I recall at the time thinking, "wow, the 'entrainment' conditions for making these things sound pretty catastrophic" Wink

4) Plastic permanent magnets are being produced now, I think. Again, I've forgotten all I've read about it 3 or 4 years ago. Not sure what that has to do with anything. Just one of those random thoughts.

I had other stuff but I've forgotten now what it was. This stuff can be mentally stupifying! Shocked Time to sit back and let it ferment a little.
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:04 pm

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: magnetism- form and structure Reply with quote
rc-us wrote:

Quote:
viewed as a 3D structure - would it stand as a good model for the core ("nucleus") of stars and planets.

Image



& If this 2D slice were viewed as a 3D object, wouldn't there be SIX "vortices" zones; to incorporate the axial [or poloidal] resolution of the toroidal field lines ?
[Recall all those TOKAMAK 3D illustrations from the Plasmoids threads].

Picture a three-winged Lissajous butterfly. [gotta have that 90 degree planar shift in the figure-eights, right junglelord Wink ]

Or in crystal view, simply two pyramids stuck base-to-base.
Hexagon like...
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Re: Recovered: Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:08 pm

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Image
Image
Image



image topmost-left from this thread LINK: Galaxy Rotation & Plasma-Focus Plasmoid. Bet the center isn't quite depicted correctly in right-most illustration, in that it should probably show a void/cavity at the center convergence zone, which does look like it's there in the left-most color-coded "clouds" portion of the image.

Bottom image: see pg 1 of this thread for captions.
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