Where does it all begin

[reka]

I love this website...but I do have a BIG question???

WHERE DOES ALL THE ELECTRICICTY FORM? HAS ANYONE CONSIDERED THIS?
SINCE ENERGY CAN BE NEITHER CREATED OR DESTROYED, perhaps it is time to
actually consider the BIBLE as a source.
ISN'T IT WRITTEN THAT GOD(s) always was (were) and always will be?

R

[redeye]

WHERE DOES ALL THE ELECTRICICTY FORM? HAS ANYONE CONSIDERED THIS?
SINCE ENERGY CAN BE NEITHER CREATED OR DESTROYED, perhaps it is time to
actually consider the BIBLE as a source.

No. Man made God in the image of himself. Man wrote the bible. There's no way man is responsible for the distribution of charge in the Universe.
You might have more luck with this further down the board.

Cheers!

[MattEU]

You mean like the bible is a battery so it could have powered the Ark?

It does say God is light and power etc.. Are you saying that the holy spirit is like the holy electric current or am i getting what you are saying not right?

[reka]

everything has a source....but where is the source for the electricity? it has to come from somwhere???/

[MattEU]

I think you will find... this thread in a different board soon

From what I have seen the EU people don't really want to discuss the the beginning because no one really knows and they are trying to keep it sensible and logical. In as much as you can when you have an idea that totally destroys the last 100 years of scientific research, funding, careers, Nobel Prizes and the Universe as we know it.

Although it is a good topic to discuss as it can help us with the now.

[mharratsc]

Your suggestion that there is some Universal Being is just as valid as any other guess at this point.

From the way I understand it, we can follow the electrical path from the Earth to the Sun, from the Sun to the Milky Way, from our galaxy to our supercluster of galaxies... then we can't see any further than that.

We'll need much more powerful detection equipment, contact from some older, wiser form of life who's "Been there and got a t-shirt", or learn how to swim upstream like salmon to find the answer to that question...

Me- I think that far, far, far away in the vast sea of primordial plasma... there is a giant Energizer bunny beating his drum. He just keeps going... and going... and going... and going....

[redeye]

Your suggestion that there is some Universal Being is just as valid as any other guess at this point.

Yeah, but wouldn't the Universal Being have to be running on the same hardware as the rest of us?

Despite my earlier, kneejerk response, I think it's a pretty interesting question. The search for the source of "charge" is really the search for the "creator". I think the Universe is infinite in scale, but this gets me thinking that maybe our Solar system is a particle in somebody else's LHC.

We'll need much more powerful detection equipment, contact from some older, wiser form of life who's "Been there and got a t-shirt", or learn how to swim upstream like salmon to find the answer to that question...

A good way of getting a handle on the mainstream view on this subject is sf. Try:
Time by Stephen Baxter
or for a more pessimistic view of us ever finding an answer:
Solaris by Stanislaw Lem

Cheers!

[mharratsc]

Ever read the book by Dr. Seuss "Horton hears A Who"?

As complex as the Universe seems to be, and how interconnected EU shows it to be- it wouldn't surprise me a bit to discover that the Universe wasn't a giant lifeform.

Then again- considering how electricity and plasma seems to bridge the microscopic to the macroscopic, it also wouldn't surprise me to hear that the entire Universe is some giant plasma toroid all by itself like a giant ball lightning event, entirely self-contained, with charges just looping around the torus forever, the charges endlessly recycling around and around, for billions and billions and billions...

Yikes! I think I was channeling Carl Sagan there for a minute! *shudder* O.O

[Lloyd]

[Perhaps] the entire Universe is some giant plasma toroid all by itself like a giant ball lightning event, entirely self-contained, with charges just looping around the torus forever

Yes, and that would also be somewhat like a tornado. Thornhill has supposed that even gravity could cause charge separation in large masses, especially stars, since atoms under great gravitational stress would tend to be distorted into dipoles in which the electrons tend to be on elongated orbits facing the star's surface, while the nucleus would tend to be pulled toward the star's center. The outermost electrons would easily be stripped off and would repel each other toward the star's surface. The star's center would become more positively charged and, if a fracture occurs, a part of the center would repel from the rest of the central mass and shoot out of the star's surface, making a close-orbiting smaller star or planet.

[StevenJay]

I've always wondered about this burning need humans have for "tangible" boundaries and parameters (as well as knowing where they are to the Nth degree wherever possible), and the varying degrees of discomfort we feel when they are removed or challenged. Just present us with notions of timelessness - no beginnings, no endings - and no "physical" boundaries, and watch us fidget and squirm. We can't help it. We're born into a realm that appears to be completely defined by limitations. Hence the nagging questions: When did it all begin (where does it all come from/go to)? How big is it? WHY is it? When/how will it all end?

But, are these even relevant questions? What if all that we hold to be "reality" is, in actual "reality," just an immensely complex "mind" experiment - as in, dream? Suddenly, all boundaries and perceptions of time and scale go right out the cosmic window.

And, yeah I know, this whole line of thought belongs in the NIMI section.

[Osmosis]

Welcome to NIMI

[mague]

SINCE ENERGY CAN BE NEITHER CREATED OR DESTROYED
R

Not even this is 100% and absolutely certain This is just another statement which seems to be true within the scientific observable space/time.

I thought a god spirit then is as valid as an inter-universal hole, a big bang or any other anomaly

[kevin]

So!, who's the devil?
I am alpha and omega, sure sounds like ,I am anode and cathode?
You can't have one without the other.
Or if it's a closed loop , then it's heads and tails.
Or is the devil in the detail?
Kevin

[keeha]

In its rising there is no light,
In its falling there is no darkness,
A continuous thread beyond description,
Lining what can not occur;
Its form formless,
Its image nothing,
Its name silence;
Follow it, it has no back,
Meet it, it has no face."

Lâo Dze

To give a more practical answer (in part) as I have internalized others more detailed theories, electrons are more mobile than positive ions. Thus large energetic events separate charge. Then they 'trickle' back together again.

Fields of force By William Berkson

pp113- Faraday's idea was that it might be possible to convert electricity into gravity, or vice versa. The grounds for his expectation were two theories he held, the unity of force and the conservation of force.

It is understandable why Faraday took up the subject of gravity only late in his career, and then with trepidation. The Newtonian view as the ruling metaphysical view, and his home ground and greatest success was the theory of gravitation...

To understand Faraday's reasoning on gravity, it is most important to keep in mind that his theory of conservation of force and the modern concept of conservation of energy (which was being developed at the same time) have important points of difference. Faraday's idea was that the total quantity of force, any cause of motion, is unchanging. Forces cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another.

A quote from Newton:

pp114- That gravity should be innate, inherent and essential to matter, so that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum, without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity, that I believe no man who has in philosophical matters a competent faculty of thinking, can ever fall into it.

[reka]

WHAT IF GOD(S) WERE THE ENEREGIES...SUCH AS IN HIERACHIES OF ENERGIES
JUST AS LIFE ON THIS 3 DIMENSIONAL PLANET( WE HAVE HIERARCHIES IN LIFE, WORK, SCHOOL ECT), GRAVITY ,PERHAPS HAS THE GREATEST
ENERGY (DUE TO THE IRON IN OUR BLOOD, ALTHOUGH GRAVITY HAS POWER OVER
OTHER PARTS OF OUR BODIES), THAN PERHAPS MAGNETISM HAS POWER HERE ALSO
BUT IN AN UPLIFTING CAPACITY....
AND THEN THERE IS ELECTRICITY WHICH TO MY KNOWLEDGE HAS TO BE
THE MOST DYNAMIC....AFTER ALL WITHOUT IT OUR HEARTS WOULD CEASE TO
BEAT AND BRAINS WOULD CEASE TO FUNCTION.
ALSO I AM ALSO CONVINCED THAT WE LIVE IN A 4 DIMENSIONAL WORLD, NOT TIME,
BUT THE 4th DIMENSION BEING LENGTH.

WHY HAVE 4 NAMES FOR THE DIMENSIONS IF THERE ARE ONLY 3...
TIME CAN NOT POSSIBLY BE A DIMENSION (EVEN IF THE POWERS THAT BE
INSIST ON TELLING US THAT IT IS) BECAUSE IT DOES NOT MEASURE
AREA. I HAVE NEVER SEEN NOR HEARD AN ENGINEER (IN ANY OF THE ENGINEERING
DISCIPLINES BRING IN THE FACTOR OF TIME)