On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Locked
Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Webbman » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:56 am

Enjoy! Its a collection of my stuff and some new stuff.

The building block

The universe is made of building blocks and there is great debate on the nature of these building blocks. Historical models account for the neutron, proton and electron and newer models have greatly expanded this to include a literal zoo of particles. I believe there is only one base particle and that modern ideas have more to do with profit and deceit than they do explaining natures elegance.

Nature is extremely efficient in her processes. Nothing is wasted and everything is recycled which is why I have doubts of such concepts as positrons, antimatter, particle zoos and all other arcane magical conjurations such as black holes, neutron stars, or dark whatever. The truth of this world is that some will be promoted even if they are known to be wrong while the correct knowledge will be horded, dismissed and even silenced. I will digress but any investigation into the truth will bring just that and as uncomfortable as it might seem you must bare it. Resistance is far from futile. It is required.

I believe the building block of the universe is an electromagnetic tube but how could such a tube exist?
I believe that the existence and stability of this building block is due to near infinite voltage. For whatever reason the near infinite voltage gives us a stable tube geometry which mimics physicality and provides a building block upon which all creation can be built. This perfect tube of near infinite voltage is the electromagnetic strand/tube, the aether, the building block of the universe. A universal connector. At the edge of such a structure we have a case where we have the infinite insulation of space on one side and the near infinite voltage on the other. A self-sustaining double layer. The perfect wire on which to build an electric universe.

It is no mistake that wires are as useful as they are. It is my belief that the near infinite (not infinite) voltage is the determiner of both the circumference and length of the tube as well at its physicality. It has to be near infinite because infinite would prevent the tubes from joining together. Like everything else the tube is a sort of hollow core electromagnet complete with poles.

Why tube? If we look at an electrical wire where does the current travel in the wire? It travels at the surface of the wire and not through the center of it. Why even use wires, why not balls or cubes? Because as simple as it sounds wires work. We can use them because and only because the underlying structure allows this. In a cube universe all connectors would be cubes. Here they are wires.

The Electron Ring

There are endless examples of tube structures from wires to worms to graphene or your circulatory system and this is because only tubes can make circuits and without a circuit nothing else can exist. The circuit is the first structure of the universe. The mighty electron. Others perceive the electron to be a cloud or a little charged body or a field but I see it as an energy storage and waveform regulator.

Take our straight tube for instance and disturb it. Its energy will be translated along itself and lost to adjacent tubes. A tube cannot hold on to a waveform. It can only translate it. This is the idea of heat. Heat is wild and has no stable waveform, no frequency, very difficult to control. The only possible way for a tube to hold a waveform is to make itself longer or become a circuit. This is the idea of both the proton and the electron but well deal with the electron first.

Once a circuit is formed you can do all kinds of things you couldn’t before. Specifically you can take a disturbance and regulate it evenly across the circuit. This is how ideas of voltage and frequency come to be. For me I like the concept of alignment which just means everything is going in the same direction. Electricity and alignment are the same thing.

As we know from electricity voltage helps us increase alignment you can get more out of less and its common knowledge that increasing voltage is proportional to decreasing current. The more voltage you have the alignment you can have until of course you reach near infinite voltage where the structure is a perfect stable tube that has no power losses. Since perfect insulators are hard to come by (even in space) our insulation would fail before we ever got the voltages required to create such tubes. The good lord is the best electrician you can get. His wiring can’t be beat. Even the most infinitesimal and gigantic circuits are possible! Without knowing it we emulate this in everything we do.

Back to the electron ring we now have the power to store and regulate waveforms. Just like any permanent magnet we are very efficient at storing the waveforms. Just like a magnet our little near infinite voltage machine will maintain itself quite well until there is an outside disturbance. Other than the circuit itself the reason why it can do this is that there are two kinds of waveforms.

The most important is the pressure wave or longitudal wave. This wave utilizes the near infinite voltage of the electromagnetic tube and is thus not only extremely efficient but also extremely fast (the fastest thing there is aka electric force). This wave explains things others consider action at a distance. It isn’t action at a distance but just the result of perfect wiring. It is also the basis of the time concept since the speed of these waves and time itself are one in the same. The electric force and time are one. We use time constructs but the universe uses the speed of the electric force for its time reference. It is near instant but not instant. If it was instant there would be no time at all.

The second kind of wave is the transverse wave. This is the kind of wave we see in the ocean. It is much slower and requires much more energy. It’s not useful for long distances but is very useful for storing great amounts of energy and regulating it. In a strand its heat but in a ring it’s a waveform. Something we can work with. If we picture our ring no matter how we disturb it, it will try to equalize across the ring. If we disturb it too much of course we will break it apart and as I explained above heat would be the result (light is also a possibility). When we lose the shape we have to go by the properties of the new shape. So our electron rings are great storages of waveforms aka energy.

Equilibrium and electron self-assembly

The universe seems to be a perpetual motion machine that attempts to go to equilibrium but never seems to be able to get there. If everything was just strands the universe would eventually equalize the motion across itself and the universe would reach equilibrium. The electron ensures this will never happen because it can self-assemble itself using the very motions that are attempting equilibrium. Once the tube becomes a ring its new abilities to regulate and store energy literally prevent equilibrium. This is why the universe does everything in cycles. Any attempt at reaching equilibrium from an energy perspective, will result in the creation of electrons which will upset that equilibrium. The perfect machine.

Mass, matter and stability

The tube is matter as a function of its near infinite voltage. You can regard each tube as a mass/matter of 1. Everything has mass and is matter except the waveforms which is a motion of the matter. It must be remembered that these are discrete units. Everything is made from these tubes. The higher structures have the cumulative mass of the number of strands required to compose it. The very word mass describes them adequately. You could theoretically talk to god over a single strand phone line from here to eternity and back or create the most gigantic powerlines in space. Look at what we can do now and imagine what can be done.

Like you could organize one strand across the cosmos also could you make a ring of any size. The bigger you get though the less stable it will be. The proton attempts to overcome this instability by winding/folding and thus densely packing tubes in a small area.

Light

Light is a specialized shape change of an electron ring. You have to admit that nature is extremely efficient and prefers transformation or shape change as nothing is ever really created nor destroyed. Light is exactly a transformed electron ring so it has some of the properties of the electron ring and some new properties. All that is requires is a torsion of the ring or twist it to make a helix. As simple as it could possibly be. All the wavelengths are possible from the smallest to the largest if we vary both the tube count and number of torsions. There’s also the duality of having a “particle” but with wave like properties.

Unlike the tube light is a great energy regulator and storage device but because of the torsion but they are still loops so are discrete like loops. If we undo the torsion it’s just an electron again. Electrons and light and heat (free tubes) have a relationship where they go back and forth. So a tube forms a loop and the loop gains a twist and the reverse is also true. This is why light and electrons interact so well. They are the same thing with an altered shape. They can take or give energy and have elasticity but only so much where it can and does all break apart. Heat is always the result of the destructive side of this process.

So we can have any light we want in the entire spectrum but there must be an equilibrium point because we can use devices to see heat. That equilibrium point is in the infrared where there is a very close relationship between a free strand and infrared light. So the most simple and least transformed light is infrared. Smaller wavelengths add more torsions and larger wavelengths add more strands.

Lights torsion property is what gives it its zing. It allows it to travel free space at max speed (speed of light). Light speed is where there’s nothing to impede the progress of the light. Cold sparse places like space will not impede light much but dense hot places will so light moves as a function of its surroundings. It doesn’t speed up or slow down like a car. Impedance determines the “speed”. This also means that in “noisy” denser places like the solar system light might move slower than say outside the reach of the sun where there would be much less impedance.

Lights energy storage, transfer and discrete mobility are perfectly designed for one way communication. The circuit is packaged in the light itself. Lights elastic nature and interaction with electrons lets us see especially color because it’s the energy gained or lost that determines the color. The torsion and thus wavelength can change upon elastic collision but the light will bounce off and we can see the result of the last collision when it collides with our retina that.

The proton

The proton is the other stability solution. Rather than forming a ring it instead forms a ball like a ball of yarn. This strategy improves the stability of the structure through mass alone and it makes sense that a proton is a couple of thousand times the mass of an electron. It not a good energy regulator but it is better than a single strand and it can stabilize very long lengths of strand within its geometry.

This structure is a ground structure because it can take in and redistribute a huge amount of energy through its mass but it cannot hold on to it. There is no loop. What we call radiation is the unwinding or unfolding of such protons which causes the material to degrade since mass is literally being lost. A proton degrades into heat or free tubes by this unwinding process. The sun is the only place protons can be generated through the reverse process. This winding process is how a sun can take energy from the galaxy and convert it into matter (electrons and protons).

The neutron

just a proton with a collapsed electron ring. It’s a lobed structure formed in the sun under great electrical pressure which causes a constriction of the electron ring of a proton. Hourglass with a torus around the middle it is a good description. It is my belief that a the electron ring can slide off and pinch one side resulting in an unequal or flawed body resulting in a flawed proton an electron and the other part of the proton. It’s a wreckage of strands and doesn’t last long. The other side doesn’t last very long either. It eventually goes back to free strands.
In a nucleus this doesn’t happen because of the geometric arrangement between the proton and neutron. It stays in the middle. However adding more neutrons to anything more than a one to one and this geometric protection will not be provided for those neutrons. They will break apart and unwind the remnants.

The aether

I believe the aether is not some foreign distinct entity but rather the entirety of the tubes in all their forms. It is not out of reach and we can see it in everything we do. The universe is not evenly divided. Some places are dense and some sparse. Most of the universe we can see is plasma which is mostly protons, electrons and ions. The missing part is the free tubes we can’t see at all but are present in the background. We can see the meatballs but not the spaghetti. There’s nothing special about it as it’s just the matter of the universe. It’s an energy moving machine and has the properties of the structures that make it up.

Space has no properties. You can’t do anything with it. You can affect the tubes by aligning them and organizing them into higher structures, or by disorganizing them. There’s no need for bending space or combining it with time. The substrate simply flows and everything flows out of it and back and forth. Everything knows where everything else is because the tubes and pressure waves move at the speed of our time reference.

Gravity

Gravity is not a force. It’s a very weak side effect of the movement of energy from a low density environment to a high density environment. By density here I mean tube density. The movement of energy towards the body is like the flow of a river. It moves one way and is always present. It does this because all masses are composed of protons which exist at a severe energy deficit. Think of a big mass of tubes as being downhill and a small mass of tubes as uphill but it’s really just a function of the number of tubes and equilibrium. We routinely use energy to overcome it when we jump or move. The sun knows where the earth is because it’s connected by pressure wave via free tubes. The sun is a very large high energy body and can make such connections in real time.

It’s actually too simple to figure out. It’s an energy river being absorbed by the mass of the earth. It is no different than a lightning bolt striking the earth. The equilibrium principle applies. Energy flows to equilibrium and the largest masses have the lowest energy and largest energy requirement. A radiant body has negative gravity or repulsion because it cannot accept the energy and gives it out instead.

Soul

I am not religious and don’t believe in organized religion (they are all corrupted) but I believe that your soul is electrical in nature. Specifically it is a pressure wave that can travel the tubes. It is the spark, the source of life. While you live it travels your tubes. It is not lost when you die but it can only be transformed while it’s in a vessel like your body. This is why it’s important that you have good works and intentions (i.e love god & love your neighbor) while you are here. That wisdom isn’t wrong, you want to try to avoid corruption and if you do get corrupted make efforts to reverse it before you move on. Think about the above. Corruption leads to heat and thus destabilization. You want a strong pattern.

Whatever you do here you will have to suffer that until you come back. Transformation takes time so your best bet is good works and intentions. It’s no coincidence that this world throws everything it can at you in an attempt to corrupt you. If you have to worship it, it is not god. It’s false. God is your friend. The best electrician there is. He doesn’t interfere in your business or take sides. Your works and intentions are everything here. They shape your soul, your pattern, your wave. God is no bully and it is wise to remember this as you get decide what you will become while you’re here. All that being said, a little courage wouldnt hurt. :)
its all lies.

Younger Dryas
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:28 am
Location: Toronto ON Canada

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Younger Dryas » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:25 pm

Ive found Plato's the Allegory of the Cave to be particularly helpful given your opening statements.


Homeboys grow up in a cave. Believing only in shadows thrown up by light of a fire. They chat about the phantoms projected on walls and take great pride in their sophistication and wisdom regarding such things. One by chance gets free. Steps outside see's the Sun, the stars, gradually his eyes adjust and he see's the true image of the thing's projected as shadows on the wall for the first time. The plants, the colours of the birds, the nuances of tree bark.

Out of compassion this newly illuminated man decides to leave the sunlight upper world and return to the cave to try and help out his companions who are still mired in confusion and error. He can't see shit in the dark anymore, he stumbles down the dark corridors and gets confused. He now seems to the others totally unimpressive.

He in turn is unimpressed by them, and insists on explaining what the real sun is. Or what a real tree is like. The cave dwellers get sarcastic, then very angry, and eventually plot to kill him.

The alienation of the returned philosopher is what all truth seekers can expect when they take their knowledge back to people who have not invested in thinking for themselves.
"I decided to believe, as you might decide to take
an aspirin: It can't hurt, and you might get better."
-- Umberto Eco Foucault's Pendulum (1988)

Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Webbman » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:31 am

turns out there were plenty of people out looking for the sun and there was no need to go back in the cave. Everyone comes out when they are ready on their own.
its all lies.

Sithri
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:24 pm

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Sithri » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:33 am

When I place a magnet on my arm, can I feel it pulling my soul? The idea that the soul is electric or magnetic or both is absolutely ridiculous.

Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Webbman » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:56 am

i will respect your decision to stay in the cave but is there any reason as to why your soul couldnt be electric? Energy is the only useful non material thing we have.
its all lies.

Sithri
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:24 pm

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Sithri » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:11 am

Webbman wrote:i will respect your decision to stay in the cave but is there any reason as to why your soul couldnt be electric? Energy is the only useful non material thing we have.
I just stated a reason why the soul can't be electric. Place a pulsed electric field onto your body. Then would your 'soul' respond? It might at most affect cells in the body, but that's about it. I am sure that I am not in Plato's cave living an unexamined life.

Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Webbman » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:30 am

The way i see it your soul exists at a much higher voltage in a shielded space. (within my "tubes" as a pressure wave") You would need alot more voltage to affect them there.

this voltage is created by focusing your energy inward on a single strand/tube ( natures building block). You wouldnt really need much overall "wattage" to do this. i.e the kingdom of heaven is within you.

its just a logical explanation to what people have believed for a long time in every culture. This is just one way to describe it. Right now you have trillions of cells but cant go anywhere. Maybe you need to lighten the load to go elsewhere.

The last place anyone would ever look is within and perhaps you have to look in to get out.

Makes sense to me and i was joking about the cave. You are on this site afterall which means that you must be looking for something.
its all lies.

Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Webbman » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:58 am

magnetism

Magnetism in my view is a form of alignment that utilizes pressure waves to form circuits where non seemingly can exist.

A magnet is made by subjecting a magnetic alloy to an intense magnetic/electric field. The strength of the magnet is proportional to the voltage/current (power) applied to generate the field. The matrix of the magnet is aligned and we have a magnet.

I think the magnet itself is just a matrix that that holds the circuits and that magnetism is actually the alignment of my tubes in real time via pressure wave.

This allows a magnet to form circuits using the free tubes (base material that is all around us, usually expressed as heat.) The material matrix can lock in these circuits made of tubes and the reason why we can pass our hands through these structures is due to ubiquity of the free strands which are the smallest structure.
so these circuits can be broken but the wave is still there and thus it just uses whatever next strand available regenerating itself to complete the circuit.

This also explains things like using really high voltage spikes to light up florescent tubes without a proper circuit. When the proper voltage is achieved the circuit is made with the tubes. This is also why these cold electricity experiments have such massive static electricity.

All were doing is allowing the generation of pressure waves in the tubes which forms a non conventional circuit.

so the idea here is that electrical pressure & current flow on a body will affect the strands around that body. They literally "stand up" or "straighten out". Insulation is no guard against this and we see this routinely. The tubes are small enough to go through the matrix of insulation. This causes free strands/tubes to align at right angles all around it. All the field is are pressure waves in the tubes. Electric and magnetic fields are the same thing , the tubes, but magnetic fields are the wakes of electric fields which form circuits. An electric field that forms a circuit is a magnetic field. This circuit comes in the form of a spiral which rotates around the wire and gives us our hand rule. This is why a charge must be moving to form a magnetic field/circuit.
Therefore the magnetic field is the wake of the electric field that forms spiral loops in the free tubes.

At low voltage we get lots of heat and weak fields which makes perfect sense if the tubes respond to electrical pressure and transmit energy as heat in their basic form.

High voltage dc gives us massive electric fields. Alternating current continually changes the direction of the spiral.

so the whole idea of the field is the way tubes interact on the most basic level with energy coming its way.
its all lies.

Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Webbman » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:22 pm

the real photoelectric effect.

it is said that when the visible light photon hits a metal surface the metal surface ejects an electron. I believe this is false and what really happens is that when the photon hits the metal it loses its energy and rotation and bounces off as an unwound photon or electron.

My reasoning is that materials should be breaking down much quicker if electrons are moving all the time. We know this isn't true as solar panels are very long lasting.

its a case of mistaken identity as they believe the photon is absorbed when in reality it just bounces off minus its energy and appears like an electron which is exactly what my model would predict.

the reason why tungsten is used in standard light bulbs is because it is rich in electrons and they do degrade when they make light (use current to eject electrons aka photons) which is what we would expect.

UV light is the main factor to degrade solar panels and this makes sense because uv light is higher energy than visible light and can disrupt the electrons causing the cell to degrade. If regular light was moving electrons constantly the panels would degrade much quicker considering the obvious difference between something like silicon, germanium and something like tungsten.
its all lies.

Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Webbman » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:31 am

like any conductor when electrons start moving its because they are being (overly) energized but this also includes their destruction to free tubes aka heat and ejection as both light and lower energy electrons.

Since it is an energy continuum we get the maximum benefit when only the energy is being transferred. When we go past this point like with the uv we start degrading the material and any degradation is the result of heat produced. This includes electrons ejected, light emitted and just heat from broken electron rings.

light can give and take energy from a system depending on the equilibrium properties of the system . If youve ever seen a wrench thrown around in space on a space station video you would know that when it strikes a surface it loses alot of energy and stops spinning as it bounces off. This is roughly the same principle. This is because the station surface can absorb all the wrenches energy and still not satisfy the equilibrium and behaves as a ground for energy.

the same thing happens with light until its too energetic (uv) and damages the surface instead of releasing all its energy.
its all lies.

Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Webbman » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:23 am

cant hold on to energy: protons and the sun

a proton in my view is a wound mass of tubes with trapped free energized tubes sticking out of it like spikes and the sun is an analog where it is a large mass with plasma tornadoes sticking out of it.

they are the same in that they cannot contain energy. The proton uses the mass principle to hold onto energy as ive said above lacks a proper circuit ( though even this can have one in conjunction with neutrons as they daisychain to form atomic cores (and this as ive said making a circuit allows for the storage of great amounts of energy)). Neutrons are required because the universe is innately male and female. The tubes are the same way. It is what it is.

the sun uses the same principle, a large mass, to contain the energy but neither is any good at it. Lucky for us since the suns inability to hold energy is what gives us life in the form of an induction circuit to the earth which charges our iron core and generates a magnetic field, storm circuits ( attached to sunspots) which give us our weather instabilities and the em radiation and plasma which adds energy (and mass) in various ways. So its always gaining energy and losing it.

they are not so different.
its all lies.

Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

Re: On tubes, voltages, waves and souls.

Unread post by Webbman » Sun May 05, 2019 4:01 am

soul charger in an electric universe

It is my belief that the structure of the universe is the electromagnetic strand. I believe these strands are the soup of the universe and all things are related to them. I also believe that your soul is a real energy pattern that can travel this network as the network is a near infinite voltage machine, meaning that power losses are extremely low and transport is extremely efficient.

if we look at modern technology we can easily see that vast quantities of information can be carried by invisible electromagnetic "waves" and invisible electricity but the truth is that this technology is still only the stick that rubs to make the fire in comparison to whats possible.

so if you have a pattern while your in a vessel you can alter that pattern. For most life this is a straightforward process. You live, your regenerate your pattern, you die and move on. For some of us this process is more involved as we have the power to choose, and thus choose poorly.

If the goal of your life is to strengthen your pattern then youll want to do things which will achieve this goal. If you want to corrupt your pattern you are free to do that as well.

its my view that all religions are based on the principles required to strengthen your patterns and of course all cults ( there really is only one cult, but i digress) corrupt your pattern which of course keeps you here.

So if you look at most religions they advise good deeds, love your neighbor, dont lie, kill, steal ect and this is the wisdom ( keeping in mind all of these institutions have been infiltrated and corrupted). The wisdom is still sound though you might have to dig for it. I will explain.

While you are on the earth you cannot maintain your energy. You have to keep eating. Its simple electrical equations. Your voltage is low. Low voltage is not efficient so constant input is required to balance the equation.

While your soul travels the tubes the opposite is true. The voltage is very high and constant input is not required.

Now if you think of your soul as sort of a specific purpose capacitor you can literally charge this thing while you are alive but with any electrical device the quality of the electricity is important as is the polarity. This is where the "love your neighbor" shines since this is the ultimate pathway to the powering of your soul. This is why the works are so important as they provide the long term trickle charge of your soul from your low voltage body. Remember that your soul travels the strands which are near infinite voltage, and thus current requirements are minimized making it efficient. You come here to recharge.

so on the earth your main purpose is to get out of here through activities that will charge your pattern. A case for the earth being hell, so to speak. A simple and easy strategy. There's enough good wisdom around but it all comes back to love your neighbor and the truth so ill leave it at that.

What of those who can never leave? Yes there are those who can never leave. They are the corrupted and they they keep coming back over and over until they get it right. Their strategy is the use of the lie to make their existence easy. The lie is a low energy solution after all and while it does nothing to improve your soul, it is quite useful here on the earth. It is actually how the world works. You cannot generate the power required to charge your soul this way and when you die you just keep coming back. Bad polarity corrupts your soul and drains your power as do bad deeds and intents.

the cult thinks that they are immortal souls (we are all immortal souls, the patterns of the strands aka the dispersed word, the spark etc.). They get by having others do their work, corrupting and exploiting people, lying, betraying, deceiving, hating their neighbors but it is them who are deceived as none of these activities can get you out of here. Dont confuse their cunning for wisdom and intelligence for they have none.

You can believe what you want and you can also stay as long as you wish. If you want out though you have to love your neighbor. Doesnt really matter what flavor path you use to achieve that.

the magnificence of this wiring job cannot be understated.
its all lies.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests