Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:33 pm

* The 26 hours as the time it took for the continents to split apart and slide to their present positions was apparently determined [at http://newgeology.us] by dividing the average distance they traveled by the velocity of seismic waves or something like that. That velocity was said to be 150 meters per second. So the distance would be about 9,000 miles. That must be the maximum distance. Southern Africa to southern South America is about half that, somewhat over 4,000 miles. But Africa is a few thousand miles wide, so the total distance might be 7 or 8 thousand miles. Australia may be the only continent that went about 9,000 miles.
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby rengel » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:23 am

You're saying that the whole mass of Australia slid with 150 meters per second (about 540 kmh or 320 mph) across some doughy surface beneath?
Where did it get the energy?
Seismic waves don't travel by moving matter, but by propagating an impulse!
For Australia to get where it is, the whole mass (matter) must have moved.
How could this happen within 26 hours?
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:08 pm

Hi Rengel,
See the link in Lloyd's post.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby rengel » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:24 pm

Hi Grey Cloud,
of course, I did. But as Lloyd did some calculations, I thought he might have some answers to my questions.
I mean, he suggests, that 'Australia may be the only continent that went about 9,000 miles.' without putting a question mark behind this statement.
But may be, I missed some ironical nuance, as English isn't my native language. If so, sorry for that.
But the point is: How do you first accelerate the mass of a whole continent to a about 580 kmh and then deaccelerate it to 0 kmh within 26 hours?
It's not the propagation of energy or an impulse through water (the tsunami model, from which the 26 hours are derived), but, as the animation on newgeology.us shows, the movement of a continental land mass we are talking about. And I just can't imagine this.
BTW, I asked the author over at newgeology.us the same questions, but didn't get an answer, yet. (It was only today.)
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:40 pm

Hi Rengel,
I share your reservations as the whole newgeology scenario sounds a little too dramatic for me and at the same time a little too precise in saying what went where, when and how.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:39 pm

* All of the continents moved, although Africa probably only barely moved. Australia moved the farthest as it was next to the blast, adjoined to India, and was of less mass than the rest of the supercontinent. When India slammed into Asia, Australia broke off and was diverted to its present position. Asia and Europe didn't move much, a few hundred miles, I think. The Americas split off along a weak zone and slid for a thousand miles at the north and over 4 thousand miles at the south. http://newgeology.us
* What's hard to imagine? Did you see the original explanation? Compare the supercontinent to a slab of ice on an icy surface that gets hit by a sledge hammer. The slab splits into pieces and the pieces slide on the icy surface. The electrical meteor impact is the sledge hammer. The slab is the supercontinent. The pieces are the continents and islands. The slick, icy surface is like the plasma Moho layer under the continents.
* If you want to question the exact velocity of the continents, it doesn't seem to matter if it didn't take exactly 26 hours. It could have taken a few weeks or months without disproving the basic theory. Mike claimed that he was able to make a calculation of the velocity and momentum of the continents based on the estimated mass and velocity of the meteorite impact, based on the size of the crater in the Somali Basin. He also mentioned on the page explaining the mid-ocean ridges that the rate of spreading [velocity] determines the resulting pattern of the ridge.
* Shock Dynamics explains more Earth features in a straightforward way than any other theory I know of. It explains:
- why the continents all seem to have moved away from a single point in the Somali Basin;
- what split the supercontinent apart;
- how the ocean ridges with transverse faults formed;
- how the magnetic striping of the seafloors occurred;
- how the mountain ranges were built up;
- how the continents moved by sliding over an unmoving surface, instead of setting on a moving undersurface, so no conveyor belt was involved;
- why the narrow parts of continents, like South America, and islands were deformed by sliding;
- what the slick surface is that they slid on, i.e. the Moho;
- why the continents fit together and why their rock and fossil types match along the edges that fit;
- how the continental movements could have occurred in a very short amount of time;
- why conventional radioactive dating methods are almost certainly based on wrong assumptions;
- why "subduction" occurs in much shorter distances than do ocean ridges;
- how seamounts and other seafloor features formed;
etc.
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby mague » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:24 pm

Could it be possible that earth didnt rotate at some point in history ? Static polarity suppoted the building of landmass at one point of the polarity. Similar to electrolysis it could have been the "mud" in the water traveled to one pole of the polarity where it gained density and finally formed landmass that kept growing to the supercontinent.
At some point the static polarity got lost and earth startet to rotate. In that regard it wasnt an impact that broke the supercontinent. It is rather a natural effect of rotation, modified polarity and effects caused form other planets like sun and even maybe the galactic core for example.

Inspired by Iroquois legend
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:22 pm

* The site http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/TheCreationStory-Iroquois.html says:
Native American Legends - The Creation Story - An Iroquois Legend
In the beginning, the world was not as we know it now. It was a water world ...

* The ancients called the sky an ocean, or water world, because at the time of the Great Flood, they saw a deluge of water come down from the sky from the north, as well as the first great rainfall from the sky.

... inhabited only by animals and creatures of the air who could survive without land. Up above, the Sky World was quite different. Human-type beings lived there with infinite types of plants and animals to enjoy.

* Plasma effects in the sky looked like creatures flying or swimming in the sky ocean. The main plasma column over the North Pole looked like a human.

In the Sky World, there was a Tree of Life that was very special to the people of the Sky World. They knew that it grew at the entrance to the world below and forbade anyone to tamper with the Tree. One woman who was soon to give birth was curious about the Tree and convinced her brother to uproot the Tree. Beneath the Tree was a great hole. The woman peered from the edge into the hole and suddenly fell off the edge. As she was falling she grasped at the edge and clutched in her hand some of the earth from the Sky World. As she fell, the birds of the world below were disturbed and alerted to her distress. The birds responded and gathered a great many of their kind to break her fall and cradle her to the back of a great sea turtle. The creatures of the water believed that she needed land to live on, so they set about to collect some for her. They dove to the great depths of the world's oceans to gather earth to make her a place to live. Many of the animals tried to gather the earth from the ocean floor, only the muskrat was successful. With only a small bit of earth brought onto turtle's back from his small paws, Turtle Island began to grow.

* The Tree of Life was the polar column and the woman who fell through the tree hole from heaven, when the column was uprooted, may have been Venus and her brother was likely Mars. The birds may have been the aurora-like plasma effects. The land on the back of the turtle may have been how the land appeared to grow after being submerged by the Great Flood, which soon began to recede.

The Sky Woman soon gave birth to a daughter on Turtle Island. The daughter grew fast. There were no man-beings on Turtle Island, but a being known as the West Wind married the daughter of Sky Woman. Soon the daughter of Sky Woman gave birth to Twins. One was born the natural way, and he was called the Right-Handed Twin. The other was born in a way that caused the death of the mother. He was called the Left-Handed Twin.

* The daughter of Sky Woman apparently was not a real person, but some kind of apparition, since she married the wind. In the Saturnian Golden Age people did not experience unpleasantness, so the twins apparently refer to the beginning of the experience of pleasure and pain.

Their Grandmother, Sky Woman, now came to the end of her life. When she died, the Twins fought over her body and pulled it apart, throwing her head into the sky. As part of the Sky World, there her head remained to shine upon the world as Grandmother Moon.

* This seems to confuse the Moon and Venus. Venus was previously close to Earth, like the Moon. When Saturn, Venus and Mars seemed to move away from the Earth and the Moon accompanied Earth, coming originally from Saturn or Jupiter, the Moon was perhaps confused with Venus in the transition.
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:15 pm

Hi Lloyd,
Some imagination you have there. The legend clearly states that it was a water world, i.e. the water was already here, not that it came down from above.
It also clearly states that there were no humans about at this time, not that they were stood gawping at the arrival of water. In fact humans do not appear for several 'generations': Sky Woman - Sky Woman's daughter - the Twins who finally 'Together, they created man and his many attributes'.
The daughter of Sky Woman apparently was not a real person, but some kind of apparition, since she married the wind.
No shit. Notice it is the West wind, the North does not get a mention in any context anywhere in the story.
This seems to confuse the Moon and Venus.
Ah, a part you can't shoe-horn into your Saturn theory so the Iroquois are confused.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And was all this before or after the meteor strike split the continents? :roll:
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby upriver » Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:22 pm

That thunderbolt that blew the continents apart that left the "crater" was probably the same one that made Valles Marinaris on Mars....
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby mague » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:54 am

Grey Cloud wrote:
The daughter of Sky Woman apparently was not a real person, but some kind of apparition, since she married the wind.
No shit. Notice it is the West wind, the North does not get a mention in any context anywhere in the story.
This seems to confuse the Moon and Venus.
Ah, a part you can't shoe-horn into your Saturn theory so the Iroquois are confused.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Allright. It seems people are not familar interpreting those legends. You always have to take them as picture and there is not necessarily a real humanoid observer. Those are tales the wind whispers..

Saturn isnt ruled out. Actually the waterworld was like the moon europa is now. Just probably warmer and without a ice shell.
Lets asume earth once was a sister moon of europa but had no rotation. The tree might be a permanent z-pinch or similar. Where it touched earth it probably was positive/negative charged and attrackted opposite charged minerals, particles that have been solved in the H2O global ocean. It gained density and builded a continent over time.
Something fell down through the plasma tower and was there. Itself or a part of it married the westwind. Westwind is the current earth rotation. The falling thing induced a momentum of rotation.

The westwinds childs are clearly two opposite poles. Pure polarity. They exist both at the same time in the same place. Maybe on a slow rotating but accelerating planet a new force was born due to earths own rotation and it interaction/induction with external forces. Maybe the iron core started the frist time to produce its own magnetic field. Probably sun gained more and more influence. The brthers create a lot. maybe this is the journey from being a moon towards its current position as planet. The two polarities fight all the time. It might be the planet had a much stronger magnetic field and crushed something on its way from Jupiter to its current position behind the belt. What is left is the moon.
In its new position sun took over and introduced day and night and facing/looking away from soloar winds. Earths rotation became stable and reached a "normal" status. Thats what made the brothers to split and live towards the solar wind or away from it.

Personally i do see two brothers here : http://www.physast.uga.edu/~rls/1020/ch15/solarwind.jpg
One is debating with the sun, the other is "thorny" and struggling with the solar wind ;)

Does it make more sense this way ?
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Re: Iroquois Myth

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:15 pm

* Grey Cloud said:
Some imagination you have there. The legend clearly states that it was a water world, i.e. the water was already here, not that it came down from above. It also clearly states that there were no humans about at this time, not that they were stood gawping at the arrival of water.
[Lloyd said,] "This seems to confuse the Moon and Venus."
Ah, a part you can't shoe-horn into your Saturn theory so the Iroquois are confused.
And was all this before or after the meteor strike split the continents? :roll:

* I don't plan to speak to you again till you quit being derogatory. But I'll answer for the sake of others.
* Cardona, Talbott, Cochrane and others have studied ancient myths rather thoroughly and have presented some of their findings at http://kronia.com/thoth.html. Cardona has stated that the sky was thought of by the ancients as an ocean, because the flood and first great rain came from the sky during the Great Flood.
* There's no reason to imagine that the ancients were not confused. They thought the apparitions they saw in the sky were physical beings. They thought the apparitions were gods and spirits. That's confusion.
* The meteor strike must have split the continents before the Great Flood, since some plants and animals survived the flood. If the ocean basins were full of water before the continents slid, the water would likely have made mile-high tsunamis that would have killed all land animals.

* Upriver said:
That thunderbolt that blew the continents apart that left the "crater" was probably the same one that made Valles Marinaris on Mars....

* I believe it would have had to be a different bolt, but likely about the same time.

* Mague said:
Actually the waterworld was like the moon europa is now. ...
The westwinds childs are clearly two opposite poles. Pure polarity. ...
In its new position sun took over and introduced day and night ....
http://www.physast.uga.edu/~rls/1020/ch15/solarwind.jpg
Does it make more sense this way ?

* No, the water world was almost certainly the sky. Barbara Walker's book, The Women's Enclyopedia of Myths and Secrets, also shows that the sky was equated with ocean, cauldron, menstrual blood etc. Saturn and the sky were initially the color of blood, according to Cardona too.
* The twins were night and day, because those extremes didn't exist in the Saturn Age. There was a more subdued light, which was constantly the same, until the Saturn System entered the Solar System.
* You should start a different thread to discuss this topic on the New Insights board. If you do so, and if you want my comments there, let me know: LKINDR@yahoo.com.
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:54 pm

Hi Lloyd,
Cardona, Talbott, Cochrane and others have studied ancient myths rather thoroughly and have presented some of their findings at http://kronia.com/thoth.html. Cardona has stated that the sky was thought of by the ancients as an ocean, because the flood and first great rain came from the sky during the Great Flood.
The Saturn theorists are incapable of crediting the ancient mythmakers with knowledge of metaphor, analogy etc. The World Ocean was not H2O.
* There's no reason to imagine that the ancients were not confused.
There is every reason to think that the ancients were not confused. It is the Saturn theorists who are confused because they can't understand what the ancients have written. The Vedic literature, for example, is not confused it is just written in a way that is difficult for us to understand, probably deliberately so. None of you have ever seen any plasma activity in the heavens yet you all know what the ancients saw and where they went wrong in describing it. :roll:
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:51 pm

Do you have a thread on which to discuss your criticisms of EU theory? No sense discussing it on this thread. It's off-topic here.
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Re: Breakthrough on How Continents Divided

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:57 pm

Hi Lloyd,
I'm only responding to what you posted here.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

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