Why an ether/aether?

[Lloyd]

* Steven O and all, I decided it's probably best to go ahead and start a new thread, so I don't take this one off-course too far. Here's the new one, where I replied to Steven too:
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... 586#p18586.

[skyfish]

Here's a nice article:

“For the most part,” Morsch continues, “this work represents yet another method that will give us more control over the quantum state of single particles. Over the last 15 or 20 years, it has become possible, and increasingly important, to exert control at the single-particle level. Our demonstration is in line with what existing theory shows, and could be another tool for the development of future quantum-based technologies.”

http://www.physorg.com/news157375449.html

What happens when the quantum state of large scale objects can be manipulated?
FTL travel?


skyfish

[StevenO]

Here's a nice article:

“For the most part,” Morsch continues, “this work represents yet another method that will give us more control over the quantum state of single particles. Over the last 15 or 20 years, it has become possible, and increasingly important, to exert control at the single-particle level. Our demonstration is in line with what existing theory shows, and could be another tool for the development of future quantum-based technologies.”

http://www.physorg.com/news157375449.html

What happens when the quantum state of large scale objects can be manipulated?
FTL travel?

skyfish

I think it is a kind of 'look at us too!' article. I don't think atoms move through "quantum tunneling" or that you can manipulate large scale objects this way. Quantum descriptions fit well to the scale of individual particles. For any aggregate of a few particles you quickly end up with variations of classical mechanics.

[skyfish]

Hello StevenO,
There are recent developments in this area that could show the way to creating entangled states in larger
scale objects:

In a study published in Physical Review A last October, physicists Mishkat Bhattacharya and Pierre Meystre from the University of Arizona in Tucson took the first steps toward showing how a pair of vibrating membranes can form a molecule-like state

Two recent studies have proposed that, with current technology, it should be possible to cool down two of these millimeter-scale membranes in such a way that they act like a single molecule. No matter how far apart they are, the membranes could be interrelated through quantum entanglement, so that measuring one membrane instantly affects the other.
By shining a particular laser frequency on the membranes, it should be possible to cool down each mode's vibrations separately. Since these vibrational states are analogous to the excitations of a single molecule, the experiment demonstrates how the two membranes act as a single system.

http://www.physorg.com/news152369994.html

skyfish

[Lloyd]

* Thornhill tried to explain quantum "tunneling" etc at kronia.com a number of times. Here are a couple of quotes.

http://www.kronia.com/thoth/thoVI-06.txt

The main thing to remember about biological mutations is that there is no physical explanation for the very successful quantum theory of matter. One of the quantum effects is "tunnelling" through a potential barrier. It is as if a car rolled down a hill and when confronted with a bigger hill, when it got to the bottom, it disappeared and reappeared on the other side of the bigger hill - as if a tunnel had magically and momentarily appeared.

With the aid of Sansbury's model of an atom, we see that quantum states and quantum tunnelling are a result of electrostatic resonances between the charged particles that make up electrons, protons and neutrons. It is important to stress that the electrostatic force operates with near infinite speed, otherwise there would be no stable resonances.

These resonances mean that the positive nuclear coulomb force is not a static field but instead an oscillating field. In that case, if two nuclei can be brought close together in a molecule, and a catalyst (radiation or a resonant atom) can provide a resonant electric field, then the coulomb force may be instantaneously attractive instead of repulsive and a nuclear transmutation effected (the magic tunnel through the hill).

http://www.kronia.com/thoth/ThotIV08.txt

the electric force is fundamental and all others are derived from it - even the nuclear force. The quantum nature of matter interactions are then seen in a classical sense to be due to electrostatic resonances operating at near-infinite speed between sub-particles that constitute electrons, protons and neutrons. Causality is reinstated in physics. ... In the view of HOLOSCIENCE, this is the only model that can sensibly explain Arp's galaxy-wide quantum jumps in redshift.

The argument goes like this: a quasar is ejected from a galactic nucleus by the plasma focus effect as an electron-deficient plasmoid (electrons are trapped in the focus longer than the much heavier protons). Now, the phenomenon of mass is due to the energy conserving elastic response of charged particles to external electric forces. If gravity is an electric force, inertial and gravitational mass will always be identical. So, because the electric polarization of stars in the quasar is low at first, the mass of protons and neutrons will be lower than in the parent galaxy.

Consequently electron orbits within quasar atoms will have lower energy - light from them will be redshifted. Luminosity will also be lower due to the lack of charge-carrying electrons. Electrons streaming after the quasar create an x-ray jet and vast radiolobes. Such electron jets are seen clearly in images from the orbiting Chandra X-Ray telescope.

As electrons arrive at the quasar, the luminosity increases at first and mass and redshift undergo quantum jumps to new resonant states across the quasar or galaxy.

* So it seems that quantum events occur at the macroscopic level [in galaxies] and quantum effects, including tunneling, are due to resonance.

[StevenO]

Two recent studies have proposed that, with current technology, it should be possible to cool down two of these millimeter-scale membranes in such a way that they act like a single molecule. No matter how far apart they are, the membranes could be interrelated through quantum entanglement, so that measuring one membrane instantly affects the other.
By shining a particular laser frequency on the membranes, it should be possible to cool down each mode's vibrations separately. Since these vibrational states are analogous to the excitations of a single molecule, the experiment demonstrates how the two membranes act as a single system.

http://www.physorg.com/news152369994.html

skyfish

We can call anything "quantum" something and expect it to do magic, but this looks like two coupled oscillators to me, something that is not quantum mechanics. The phase behaviour of such a system can be complex, but it is no 'action at a distance'.

[tangointhenight]

Since everything in the universe is physically connected, allowing rational causal explanations for light and gravity, I think the "ether" can finally die quietly.

First you have to prove that your threads exist.

Well do you, have any proof?

[altonhare]

Since everything in the universe is physically connected, allowing rational causal explanations for light and gravity, I think the "ether" can finally die quietly.

First you have to prove that your threads exist.

Well do you, have any proof?

Name your criterion for proof.

[Grey Cloud]

Since everything in the universe is physically connected, allowing rational causal explanations for light and gravity, I think the "ether" can finally die quietly.

First you have to prove that your threads exist.

Well do you, have any proof?

Name your criterion for proof.

A single thread?

[altonhare]

Since everything in the universe is physically connected, allowing rational causal explanations for light and gravity, I think the "ether" can finally die quietly.

First you have to prove that your threads exist.

Well do you, have any proof?

Name your criterion for proof.

A single thread?

Sorry, I cannot present you with one. I can only present a shape/form that is consistent with, but not proven by, observations.

[tangointhenight]

Since everything in the universe is physically connected, allowing rational causal explanations for light and gravity, I think the "ether" can finally die quietly.

First you have to prove that your threads exist.

Well do you, have any proof?

Name your criterion for proof.

A single thread?

Sorry, I cannot present you with one. I can only present a shape/form that is consistent with, but not proven by, observations.

So they dont exist then.

[altonhare]

Since everything in the universe is physically connected, allowing rational causal explanations for light and gravity, I think the "ether" can finally die quietly.

First you have to prove that your threads exist.

Well do you, have any proof?

Name your criterion for proof.

A single thread?

Sorry, I cannot present you with one. I can only present a shape/form that is consistent with, but not proven by, observations.

So they dont exist then.

Could you please present yourself, otherwise you don't exist, by the logic you are using.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Alton,
You wrote

Could you please present yourself, otherwise you don't exist, by the logic you are using.

Are you suggesting that only things which are present exist? Surely, the very fact that you can and do respond to my posts suggests that I exist? Can you show anything which interacts with a thread?
P.S. You are confusing existing and being again. Threads exist as we can discuss them but they have no being, just like unicorns.

[flyingcloud]

If we can't be present to prove we exist, does that mean Alton is holding "conversations" with imaginary entities?


define insanity...

[altonhare]

Hi Alton,
You wrote

Could you please present yourself, otherwise you don't exist, by the logic you are using.

Are you suggesting that only things which are present exist? Surely, the very fact that you can and do respond to my posts suggests that I exist? Can you show anything which interacts with a thread?
P.S. You are confusing existing and being again. Threads exist as we can discuss them but they have no being, just like unicorns.

If we can't be present to prove we exist, does that mean Alton is holding "conversations" with imaginary entities?


define insanity...

What the freakin' hell, I was following tango's logic to show how absurd it was.

Could you please present yourself, otherwise you don't exist, by the logic you are using.

Did you two read, think, and respond, or just read and respond?