aether

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: aether

Unread postby ja7tdo » Mon May 13, 2019 8:05 pm

rickard wrote:If the aether is a reality, of what does it consist?


NO,

Dayton Miller (1866-1941) was experimenting 300 times more accurately than Michaelson Morley and proving the existence of ether. According to the result, it turned out that the Earth is proceeding in a spiral manner at a speed of 208 km / sec toward the direction of Vega.

Nevertheless Ether does not exist
https://etherealmatters.org/article/nev ... -not-exist

Because light travels through charged particles as a medium.
https://etherealmatters.org/article/lig ... -particles
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Re: aether

Unread postby Sandokhan » Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Dayton Miller (1866-1941) was experimenting 300 times more accurately than Michaelson Morley and proving the existence of ether. According to the result, it turned out that the Earth is proceeding in a spiral manner at a speed of 208 km / sec toward the direction of Vega.

The Earth is not proceeding anywhere.

"But we must pause at this juncture to critique Miller’s thinking process, for
he, being a Copernican, is basing his interpretation of data on his belief that
the Earth is moving at least 30 km/sec through space. Interestingly enough, it
is precisely because of this presupposition that Miller runs into some
unexplained difficulty, since his observations begin to conflict with his
mathematical calculations. The one anomaly in all past interferometer
experiments that Miller discovered was the experimenters assumed they knew the
precise velocity of the Earth through the ether in combination with the solar
system’s supposed motion toward the constellation of Hercules, but did they
really know? The geocentrist, of course, would answer that they did not know.
In any case, Miller’s 1925 experiment took into account this “anomaly” and he
made his calculations accordingly. Since he assumed the Earth was moving 30
km/sec, he combined this with the four positions (February, April, August,
September) that he examined of the Earth’s orbit around the sun and then used
Pythagorean geometry to determine the speed of the Earth toward the
constellation Draco, which came to 208 km/sec.[2] In other words, 208 km/sec is
what Miller believed to be the Earth’s absolute speed through the ether. Of
course, being a heliocentrist, Miller is assuming that the ether is motionless
and that the Earth is moving through it. In any case, Miller’s 1933 paper
reveals that his Pythagorean calculations do not match what he observed in the
fringe shifts. As we will recall, his experimental fringe shifts showed a
maximum of 10 km/sec, but this figure is less than his computed value by a
factor of twenty! Miller did not have an answer for this problem, and it is
left as an open-ended question in his 1933 paper. The answer, of course, is
that Miller’s Pythagorean calculations were based on a faulty premise (i.e.,
that the Earth was moving). If that factor were eliminated, his calculations
would be in accord with his observations. The same can be said of recent
experiments performed by Stefan Marinov, in the late 1970s, using
coupled-mirror interferometry.

Miller configured the four interferometer readings in the form of a
parallelogram (February, April, August, September), which assumes the Earth is
in orbit around the sun. The diagonal of each of the four parallelogram points
represents the apex of that period, while the long side represents the motion,
which is coincident with the center of orbit; the short side of the
parallelogram represents Earth velocity of 30 km/sec. Hence, knowing the
direction of the three sides of the triangle, and the magnitude of one side,
allows one to calculate the magnitude of the other sides, which for Miller was
208 km/sec toward Dorado."

I have just proven, in my previous message, that both Michelson and Miller measured the CORIOLIS EFFECT of the ether drift, and not the SAGNAC EFFECT.

If you want to prove the west-east rotation of the Earth around its own axis, you need the SAGNAC EFFECT, which was never registered at all.

All they got is the CORIOLIS EFFECT.

A huge difference.
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Re: aether

Unread postby ja7tdo » Mon May 13, 2019 11:04 pm

Sandokhan wrote:The Earth is not proceeding anywhere.


Do you know laser gyros? The principle of the laser gyro is the same as the Michelson-Morley interferometer. Laser gyro can detect the rotation of Earth. The light from the laser is transmitted through the glass fiber molecule as a medium, so it can detect the acceleration that the molecule receives.

Ether has never been observed. Even without ether, light propagation and gravity can be explained.
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Re: aether

Unread postby Sandokhan » Mon May 13, 2019 11:15 pm

Do you know laser gyros? The principle of the laser gyro is the same as the Michelson-Morley interferometer. Laser gyro can detect the rotation of Earth.

Is this supposed to be a joke?

RLGs measure the CORIOLIS EFFECT of the ether drift.

Gran Sasso, Italy - GINGERino experiment

Latitude: 42.4166°

λHe:Ne = 632 nm

L = 3.6 m

The formula for the square ring laser interferometer located away from the center of rotation derived in the next to the previous message, could have been obtained directly from the global/generalized Sagnac formula, by letting l1 = l2 = 2L:

2(V1L1 + V2L2)/c2

Frequency formula for the CORIOLIS EFFECT at Gran Sasso, Italy, ring laser gyroscope:

4Aω/λP = Lω/λ

(A = L2, P = 4L)

Frequency formula for the SAGNAC EFFECT at Gran Sasso, Italy, ring laser gyroscope:

[4L(v1 + v2)]/λP = 2v/λ

(v = Rω, since the sides of the square interferometer measure 3.6 meters in length, v1 practically equals v2)

2v/λ / Lω/λ = 2R/L

At the Gran Sasso latitude, R = 4,710 km = 4,710,000 meters

L = 3.6 meters

2R/L = 2,616,666.666

The SAGNAC EFFECT frequency is larger by a factor of 2,616,666.666 times than the CORIOLIS EFFECT frequency.

The CORIOLIS EFFECT frequency formula is not always written in its full form, which must include the conversion factor from rad/s to Hz:

https://pos.sissa.it/318/181/pdf (the 2π factor is featured in the formula)

https://www.scitepress.org/papers/2015/54380/54380.pdf (the authors do not include the 2π conversion factor)

https://bura.brunel.ac.uk/bitstream/243 ... Thesis.pdf (it includes the correct derivation for the CORIOLIS EFFECT frequency formula, pg. 39-40 and 60)

The huge error introduced by Albert Michelson in 1925 has not been observed by all of the distinguished physicists who have published works on the SAGNAC EFFECT, including E.J. Post who had no idea in 1967 that he was deriving and describing the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula.

GENERALIZED SAGNAC EFFECT PHASE DIFFERENCE AND FREQUENCY FORMULAS FOR A SQUARE RING LASER GYROSCOPE

https://i.ibb.co/bXJDkV1/sqrlg.jpg

First, the Sagnac effect formula for a square interferometer which rotates around its own geometrical center.

Let L = r√2 (r = distance from point O to one of the corners)

Time travel along side AB:

dtab = L/(c - v/√2)

(distance from point O to one of the sides is r/√2, and since v = r x ω, velocity for the light beam traveling along a side is v/√2)

dtcounterclockwise = 8r/(√2c + v)

dtclockwise = 8r/(√2c - v)

Δt = 8rv/c2

Δφ = Δt x c/λ

Δf = Δφ x c/P

(P = perimeter = 4L)


Now, the much more difficult case for the same square ring laser interferometer located away from the center of rotation.

Let us now rotate the square interferometer by 135° in the clockwise direction: point A will be located in the uppermost position (the source of light will be placed at point A as well).

Distance from the center of rotation to point C is k2, while the distance from the center of rotation to point A is k1.

v1 = k1 x ω

v2 = k2 x ω

Proceeding exactly as in the case of the interferometer in the shape of a rectangle, we have two loops, one counterclockwise, one clockwise.

A > B > C > D > A is the clockwise path

A > D > C > B > A is the counterclockwise path

Sagnac phase components for the counterclockwise path (only the vx components of the velocity vector are subject to a different time phase difference in rotation, not the vy components):

L/(c - v1)

-L/(c + v2)

-L/(c + v2)

L/(c - v1)

Sagnac phase components for the clockwise path:

-L/(c + v1)

L/(c - v2)

L/(c - v2)

-L/(c + v1)

For the single continuous counterclockwise path we add the components:

L/(c - v1) - L/(c + v2) - L/(c + v2) + L/(c - v1) = 2L/(c - v1) - 2L/(c + v2)

For the single continuous clockwise path we add the components:

-L/(c + v1) + L/(c - v2) + L/(c - v2) - L/(c + v1) = -2L/(c + v1) + 2L/(c - v2)

The net time phase difference will be (let us remember that the counterclockwise phase difference has a negative sign attached to it, that is why the substraction of the phase differences becomes an addition):

2L/(c - v1) - 2L/(c + v2) -(-)[-2L/(c + v1) + 2L/(c - v2)] = 2L(2v1/c2) + 2L(2v2/c2) = 4L(v1 + v2)/c2

This is the correct global/generalized SAGNAC EFFECT formula for a square shaped ring laser interferometer:

4L(v1 + v2)/c2

For the same interferometer, the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula is:

4Aω/c2


The phase difference for the SAGNAC EFFECT is:

Δφ = Δt x c/λ = [4L(v1 + v2)]/c2 x c/λ = [4L(v1 + v2)]/cλ

The frequency formula for the SAGNAC EFFECT is:

Δf = Δφ x c/P = [4L(v1 + v2)]/λP


Ether has never been observed.

Let's put your word to the test.

Yuri Galaev, Ph.D.; Senior research officer of the Institute for Radiophysics & Electronics National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, and corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences (RANS)

The most significant development since Miller has been the
experiments of Yuri Galaev of the Institute of Radiophysics and
Electronics in the Ukraine. Galaev made independent measure-
ments of ether-drift using radiofrequency and optical wave
bands. His research not only "confirmed Miller's results down
to the details"but also allowed computation of the increase of
ether-drift with altitude above the Earth's surface (calculated to
be 8.6 m/sec per meter of altitude).


http://www.orgonelab.org/EtherDrift/Galaev2.pdf

journal pgs 207-224

pg 210 interferometer description
pg 220 ether drift velocity measurements/data

THE MEASURING OF ETHER-DRIFT VELOCITY AND KINEMATIC ETHER VISCOSITY WITHIN OPTICAL WAVES BAND Yu.M. Galaev The Institute of Radiophysics and Electronics of NSA in Ukraine


The positive results of three experiments [1-3], [7- 9], [10] give the basis to consider the effects detected in these experiments, as medium movement developments, responsible for electromagnetic waves propagation.

Such medium was called as the ether [11] at the times of Maxwell, Michelson and earlier. The conclusion was made in the works [1-3], that the measurement results within millimeter radio waves band can be considered as the experimental hypothesis confirmation of the material medium existence in nature such as the ether. Further discussions of the experiment results [1-3] have shown the expediency of additional experimental analysis of the ether drift problem in an optical wave band.


Thus, in the work, the hypothesis experimental verification about the ether existence in nature, i.e. material medium, responsible for electromagnetic waves propagation, in the optical wave band has been performed. The estimation of the ether kinematic viscosity value has been performed. The first order optical method for the ether drift velocity and the ether kinematic viscosity measuring has been proposed and realized.

The method action is based on the development regularities of viscous liquid or gas streams in the directing systems. The significant measurement results have been obtained statistically. The development of the ether drift required effects has been shown. The measured value of the ether kinematic viscosity on the value order has coincided with its calculated value.

The velocity of optical wave propagation depends on the radiation direction and increases with height growth above the Earth's surface. The velocity of optical wave propagation changes its value with a period per one stellar day. The detected effects can be explained by the following:

optical wave propagation medium available regarding to the Earth's movement;

optical wave propagation medium has the viscosity, i.e. the feature proper to material mediums composed of separate particles;

the medium stream of optical wave propagation has got a space (galactic) origin.

The work results comparison to the experiment results, executed earlier in order of the hypothesis verification about the existence of such material medium as the ether in nature, has been performed. The comparison results have shown the reproduced nature of the ether drift effect measurements in various experiments performed in different geographic requirements with different measurement methods application. The work results can be considered as experimental hypothesis confirmation about the ether existence in nature, i.e. material medium, responsible for electromagnetic waves propagation.

The following model statements are used at measuring method development [4-6]: the ether is a material medium, responsible for electromagnetic waves propagation; the ether has properties of viscous gas; the metals have major etherdynamic resistance. The imagination of the hydroaerodynamic (etherdynamic) effect existence is accepted as the initial position. The method of the first order based on known regularities of viscous gas movement in tubes [27-28] has been proposed and realized within the optical electromagnetic waves band in the work for measuring of the ether drift velocity and ether kinematic viscosity.


http://www.orgonelab.org/EtherDrift/Galaev.pdf

journal pgs 211-225

ETHERAL WIND IN EXPERIENCE OF MILLIMETRIC RADIOWAVES PROPAGATION Yu.M. Galaev The Institute of Radiophysics and Electronics of NSA in Ukraine


The ethereal wind speed value, measured in a radio frequency band at the work, is close to the ethereal wind speeds values, measured in electromagnetic waves optical range in the experiments of Miller [5, 6], Michelson, Peas, Pearson [11]. Such comparison results can be considered as mutual confirmation of the research results veracity, the experiment [5, 6] and the experiment [11].

The executed analysis has shown, that this work results can be explained by radiowaves propagation phenomenon in a space parentage driving medium with a gradiant layer speed in this medium ow near the Earth's surface. The gradiant layer available testifies that this medium has the viscosity -- the property intrinsic material media, i.e. media consisting of separate particles. Thus, the executed experiment results agree with the initial hypothesis positions about the Aether material medium existence in the nature.


The GPS satellites DO NOT RECORD/REGISTER the ORBITAL Sagnac effect.

The Hoek experiment did not record the 30km/s supposed orbital speed.

The Mascart experiment did not record the 30km/s supposed orbital speed either.
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Re: aether

Unread postby ja7tdo » Mon May 13, 2019 11:39 pm

Sandokhan wrote:Is this supposed to be a joke?

RLGs measure the CORIOLIS EFFECT of the ether drift.


Coriolis effect?
You are making the same mistake as Einstein.
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Re: aether

Unread postby Sandokhan » Tue May 14, 2019 1:34 am

You are making the same mistake as Einstein.

No mistakes on my part, so far. None whatsoever.

As for Einstein, he based his main "postulate" on the wrong set of equations.

Einstein, 1905:

"The principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is of course contained in Maxwell's equations”

What Einstein is telling the other physicists is that the principle of the constancy of the speed of light is based SOLELY on the Heaviside-Lorentz equations (modified Maxwell equations): a different set of equations will lead of course to a DEEPER understanding of the entire phenomenon.

Here are the Heaviside-Lorentz equations:

http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/annota ... t1420a.gif

Here are the ORIGINAL MAXWELL EQUATIONS:

https://image.ibb.co/f1Coyy/88.jpg


http://web.archive.org/web/200710060832 ... tombe4.pdf (also includes the appendix called Maxwell's Minor Errors discussing the wrong minus sign in equation D)

Equations [A], [ B ], [D], [E], [F], and [H], would not normally appear in a modern day set of Maxwell’s equations. A modern textbook would combine equation [A] with equation [C] as per equation (112) in part III of the 1861 paper, and the combination would be referred to as the Maxwell’s displacement current equation. In a modern day textbook, the addition of Maxwell’s displacement current to equation [C] would not be explained in terms of total electric current as per Maxwell’s 1861 derivation, but rather in terms of adding on an extra term to Ampère’s circuital law, in order to retain the solenoidal nature of electric current in a capacitor circuit. Modern day displacement current is divorced from its dielectric origins, and it is explained as a time varying quantity that possesses some of the characteristics of electric current, but that is not actually a real current. Modern day sets of Maxwell’s equations therefore only contain three of the original set, with two of these having been amalgamated into one. Added to these two originals in modern textbooks, are Faraday’s law of electromagnetic induction, and the equation stating that the divergence of B is always zero.

Equation D: E = vXB − ∂Α/dt +gradψ

"To make matters worse, modern physicists link Maxwell’s equations to Einstein’s theories of relativity on the very basis of not realizing that equation (1) is one of Maxwell’s equations. Einstein’s entire basis for postulating the constancy of the speed of light lay with the misinformed view that Maxwell’s equations do not contain a convective term. It is in this respect in particular that Maxwell’s contribution to electromagnetism has been totally distorted."

"If the Lorentz force had still been included as one of Maxwell’s equations, they could have been written in total time derivative format (see Appendix A in ‘The Double Helix Theory of the Magnetic Field’) and Einstein would not have been able to make this claim. A total time derivative electromagnetic wave equation would allow the electromagnetic wave speed to alter from the perspective of a moving observer.
"

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/R ... nload/6371 (Appendix A and page 3)


http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/R ... wnload/206

E = vXB and Maxwell’s Fourth Equation

Dr. F.D. Tombe

When Oliver Heaviside and JW Gibbs reformatted Maxwell’s equations in 1884, they put them into partial time derivative format. Instead of using the Lorentz force, Heaviside and Gibbs chose to use a partial time derivative version of Faraday’s law of electromagnetic induction, and in doing so they lost the convective vXB component of the Lorentz force.

The convective component could be reintroduced to Heaviside’s versions of Maxwell’s equations by a simple Galilean transformation.

http://www.gsjournal.net/Science-Journa ... nload/5373 (page 3)

http://www.nanotechinnov.com/wp-content ... ations.pdf (page 4-5, 11)


M. Eisenman also derived the original dynamical Maxwell equations and showed that they are invariant under Galilean transformations:


https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access ... ?aid=80761

Chapter 1 deals with the common formulation of Maxwell's equations, pointing out that they are valid for static cases only.

The question now is what happens when the radiator does move with respect to the reference coordinate system, say at the speed u in the positive x direction. We would expect (at least I would) that the electromagnetic wave in the positive x direction will propagate at the speed of c+u while the wave propagating at the opposite direction will do so at the speed of c-u. This obviously means that the speed of propagating electromagnetic waves is not constant.

Here comes in the assumption (or belief, if you want to call it so) that the common formulation of Maxwell's equations is universal, i.e.: they apply to non static problems as well. Now, if you substitute the two waves of the last paragraph (moving at different speeds than the nominal speed of light) the differential equation would not equate. We know why. The reason is the assumption of the universality of the common formulation of Maxwell's equations that forces all electromagnetic waves to propagate at the nominal speed c. I believe that this is the origin of the relativists' claim that the speed of light c is constant in all moving inertial frames (not the Michelson-Morley experiment) , and this discrepancy led to the Lorentz and Minkowski transformations and to Einstein's theory of relativity.

In chapter 2 I add the two missing terms to Maxwell's equations (due to the motion of the radiator with respect to the reference coordinate system).

And lo and behold - the solution is just what we would expect by common sense: an electromagnetic wave in the positive x direction propagating at the speed of c+u and a wave propagating at the opposite direction at the speed of c-u.

This means that velocity vectors are additive, and hence we go back to the Galilean transformation.


Coriolis effect?

Yes.

The CORIOLIS EFFECT and the SAGNAC EFFECT have different formulas.

The Coriolis effect is a PHYSICAL EFFECT on the beams of light of the interferometer. It is proportional to the AREA.

The Sagnac effect is an ELECTROMAGNETIC EFFECT on the velocity of the beams of light. It is proportional to the RADIUS of rotation.

Since 1913, all interferometers, especially the ring laser gyroscopes have detected ONLY the CORIOLIS EFFECT, nothing else.

Now, let us compare the two formulas, Coriolis vs. Sagnac, using the latitude, for the Michelson-Gale experiment.

The turning of the MGX area at the hypothetical rotational speed of the Earth takes place a distance of some 4,250 km from the center of the Earth (latitude 41°46').

FULL CORIOLIS EFFECT FOR THE MGX:

4AΩsinΦ/c2

FULL SAGNAC EFFECT FOR THE MGX:

4Lv(cos2Φ1 + cos2Φ2)/c2


Sagnac effect/Coriolis effect ratio:

R((cos2Φ1 + cos2Φ2)/hsinΦ

R = 4,250 km

h = 0.33924 km

The rotational Sagnac effect is much greater than the Coriolis effect for the MGX.

Φ1 = Φ = 41°46' = 41.76667°

Φ2 = 41°45' = 41.75°

R((cos2Φ1 + cos2Φ2) = 4729.885

hsinΦ = 0.225967

4729.885/0.225967 = 20,931.72

THE ROTATIONAL SAGNAC EFFECT IS 21,000 TIMES GREATER THAN THE CORIOLIS EFFECT.

Michelson and Gale recorded ONLY the Coriolis effect, and not the rotational Sagnac effect.


Here is the full derivation of the CORIOLIS EFFECT on the light beams of an interferometer:

https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/pram/087/05/0071

Spinning Earth and its Coriolis effect on the circuital light beams

In 1921, Dr. Silberstein proposed that the Sagnac effect, as it relates to the rotation of the Earth or to the effect of the ether drift, must be explained in terms of the Coriolis effect: the direct action of Coriolis forces on counterpropagating waves.

http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/Michel ... rstein.pdf

The propagation of light in rotating systems, Journal of the Optical Society of America, vol. V, number 4, 1921

Remember, the CORIOLIS EFFECT is a physical effect.

It relates directly to the area of the interferometer.

In 1922, Dr. Silberstein published a second paper on the subject, where he generalizes the nature of the rays arriving from the collimator:

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/H ... nload/2645

In 1924, one year before the Michelson-Gale experiment, Dr. Silberstein published a third paper, where he again explicitly links the Coriolis effect to the counterpropagating light beams in the interferometer:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 2408634503
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Re: aether

Unread postby rickard » Tue May 14, 2019 3:52 am

All this numbers does not make anybody happy ..... and they does not explain nothing .....
It makes me think of the book "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" in which they searched for the solution of the riddle of life, and they found out that it was: 42
Life is not mathematics
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Re: aether

Unread postby ja7tdo » Tue May 14, 2019 5:01 am

Einstein introduced into physics without examining the reality of space, which is a mathematical concept.There is no reality in ether,too.
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Re: aether

Unread postby JHL » Tue May 14, 2019 6:43 am

rickard wrote:If the aether is a reality, of what does it consist?


There's a mystery. Remember way, way back a couple of years ago when the Higgs Boson was going to explain how everything worked?

If the Forces are reality, of what do they consist?
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Re: aether

Unread postby Zyxzevn » Tue May 14, 2019 12:43 pm

Aether seems the result of the research by Maxwell and others, who
tried to define a medium in which waves can be formed.
You can see it in his equations, that are very similar to flow equations.

The way a wave forms is by:
1. electrical currents cause magnetic fields.
2. changing magnetic fields create electrical fields.
3. electrical fields create new currents (or changing dielectric).

But in a vacuum there is no current, nor a physical dielectric.
We can solve this problem by assuming there is some aether that acts like a dielectric.

But as others already stated in this thread, maxwell equations have some flaws.
And then others try to fill in variations of his wave-equations or variations of an aether.

But we can go one step back:
I think that Maxwell's idea is obsolete and that aether is unnecessary.

No magnetic fields

We all kind of agree that magnetic fields are the result of moving electrical charges.
Which are similar to moving electrical fields.

This means that we do not need magnetic fields at all.
They are just a side effect.

But we also know that electromagnetic waves move with the speed of light.

And combined with the idea that magnetism is a side-effect,
the electromagnetic waves become electric-waves.
They are the result of electrical charges moving in periodically (or in circles).
These movements create waves of changing electrical fields, which
we can detect delayed.

So this all means that we only have electrical fields, stationary and moving.

But this also means that we do not need anything to carry our electromagnetic waves.
So we do not need aether.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@
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Re: aether

Unread postby Sandokhan » Tue May 14, 2019 1:08 pm

So this all means that we only have electrical fields, stationary and moving.

Then, explain the Aharonov-Bohm effect.

The Aharonov-Bohm effect, where potentials alone can interfere, even in the absence of EM force fields, and produce real force effects in charged particle systems. That is, the sole agent of the interference of scalar potentials can induce EM changes, according to the experimentally proven Aharonov-Bohm effect, even in the total absence of EM force fields.

What, then, carries the potential?

“...the vector potential appears to give the most direct description of the physics. This becomes more apparent the more deeply we go into quantum theory. In the general theory of quantum electrodynamics, one takes the vector and scalar potentials as the fundamental quantities in a set of equations that replace the Maxwell equations: E and B are slowly disappearing from the modern expression of physical laws; they are being replaced by A and φ”

(Feynman et al, 1989, chapter 15, section 5, The Feynman Lecture on Physics (Vol. 2), 1989)

So we do not need aether.

Unfortunately, you do.

Here is the Ruderfer experiment.

Ruderfer, Martin (1960) “First-Order Ether Drift
Experiment Using the Mössbauer Radiation,”
Physical Review Letters, Vol. 5, No. 3, Sept. 1, pp
191-192

Ruderfer, Martin (1961) “Errata—First-Order Ether
Drift Experiment Using the Mössbauer Radiation,”
Physical Review Letters, Vol. 7, No. 9, Nov. 1, p 361


in 1961, M. Ruderfer proved mathematically and experimentally, using the spinning Mossbauer effect, the FIRST NULL RESULT in ether drift theory.

"What students are not told is that the Turner & Hill experiment is a garbled version of a 1960 investigation by Ruderfer, who was seeking to discover fluctuations in gamma ray frequency which might indicate motion of an electromagnetic medium across the plane of the spinning disk, causing cyclic Doppler-type changes in the transit times of the gamma rays crossing that disk. Initially Ruderfer put it out that his results were negative for ether drift, but 14 months later he published an errata which stated that mathematical analysis had shown that if an ether wind were blowing across the plane of the spinning disk, one would expect that Doppler fluctuations in the frequency of the gamma radiation detected at the centre of the disk would be compensated by equal and opposite fluctuations in the emitted frequency of the gamma rays, caused by the effect of variations in the ether speed of the source.

What Ruderfer's experiment had stumbled on was that there could be a static electromagnetic medium at rest with respect to the rest of the universe. And it could be that any motion with respect to that medium affects the gamma ray source, and the central Mossbauer detector, by slowing down the rate of process of each by half the square of the ratio of each one's absolute ether speed to the absolute speed of propagation of light. If such were the case, it would follow (as a mathematical necessity) that irrespective of the direction and speed of ether drift of the lab, the central detector of the spinning disk would always observe a steady slowing of the gamma radiation frequency by half the square of the ratio of the spin speed of the source to the out-and-return speed of light, as measured by the detector in a reference frame which is non-rotating with respect to the fixed stars.

Ruderfer's experiment and his errata were of great significance in the history of modern physics because of their psychological impact on the ether deniers. Previously, the Michelson & Morley ether drift experiment had been successfully portrayed as 'negative' rather than 'null' because the proposed compensating factor, Fitzgerald contraction, was a theoretical construct. However, in the case of the Ruderfer experiment, the ether deniers were shocked to find that the experiment provided proof of the existence of the compensating factor in the observed frequency reduction, making it indubitably a null ether drift experiment.

Since the motion-induced frequency reduction of the gamma ray source is by a steady 'half the square of the ratio of the disk spin speed to the speed of propagation of the gamma rays', and since this is exactly the amount required to give the same result, irrespective of whether the disk is at ether rest, or is orientated edgewise (or at right angles) to a hypothetical ether drift, this constituted prima facie evidence for something for which the ether deniers have a particular fear and loathing - 'laws of nature which conspire to conceal the effect of ether drift'."

https://web.archive.org/web/20070315063 ... /Index.htm (select the Ether Drift article option)

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Materi ... a_2002.pdf


Analysis of the spinning Mossbauer experiments is a natural step toward analysis of the
slightly more complex and much larger-scale Global Positioning System (GPS). This
system constitutes a large scale near-equivalent to the spinning Mossbauer experiments.
The transit time between the satellite and ground-based receivers is routinely measured.
In addition, the atomic clocks on the satellite are carefully monitored; and high precision
corrections are provided as part of the information transmitted from the satellites.
Because the satellites and the receivers rotate at different rates (unlike the Mossbauer
experiments), a correction for the motion of the receiver during the transit time is
required. This correction is generally referred to as a Sagnac correction, since it adjusts
for anisotropy of the speed of light as far as the receiver is concerned. Why is there no
requirement for a Sagnac correction due to the earth’s orbital motion? Like the transit
time in the spinning Mossbauer experiments, any such effect would be completely
canceled by the orbital-velocity effect on the satellite clocks.


Specifically, there is substantial independent experimental evidence that clock speed always affects the clock frequency and, as the GPS system shows, the spin velocity of the earth clearly affects the clock rate. This being the case, the null result of the rotating Mössbauer experiments actually implies that an ether drift must exist or else the clock effect would not be canceled and a null result would not be present.

A GPS satellite orbiting the Earth, while at the same time the entire system is orbiting the Sun, IS A LARGE SCALE SPINNING MOSSBAUER EXPERIMENT.


Given the very fact that these GPS satellites DO NOT record the orbital Sagnac effect, means that THE HYPOTHESES OF THE RUDERFER EXPERIMENT ARE FULFILLED.

Why is there no requirement for a Sagnac correction due to the earth’s orbital motion? Like the transit time in the spinning Mossbauer experiments, any such effect would be completely canceled by the orbital-velocity effect on the satellite clocks.

However, indirectly, the counteracting effects of the transit time and clock slowing induced biases indicate that an ether drift is present. This is because there is independent evidence that clocks are slowed as a result of their speed. Thus, ether drift must exist or else the clock slowing effect would be observed.

In fact, there is other evidence that the wave-front bending and absence of the
Sagnac effect in the earth-centered frame is due to the clock-biasing effects of velocity
and that an ether drift velocity actually exists in the earth-centered frame. First, the
gradient of the solar gravitational effects upon clocks on the surface of the earth is such
that the clocks will speed up and slow down in precisely the correct way to retain the
appropriate up-wind and down-wind clock biases. Thus, the clocks must be biased or
else the solar gravitational effects would become apparent.


Second, as Charles M. Hill has shown, clocks on the earth clearly vary their rate as
the speed of the earth around the sun varies. Earth clocks run slower when the earth’s
speed increases and the earth’s distance from the sun is decreased near perihelion. The
earth’s clocks run faster near aphelion. This variation must be counteracted via an ether drift effect else it could be detected in GPS and VLBI experiments.


http://qem.ee.nthu.edu.tw/f1b.pdf

This is an IOP article.

The author recognizes the earth's orbital Sagnac is missing whereas the earth's rotational Sagnac is not.

He uses GPS and a link between Japan and the US to prove this.

In GPS the actual magnitude of the Sagnac correction
due to earth’s rotation depends on the positions of
satellites and receiver and a typical value is 30 m, as the
propagation time is about 0.1s and the linear speed due
to earth’s rotation is about 464 m/s at the equator. The
GPS provides an accuracy of about 10 m or better in positioning.
Thus the precision of GPS will be degraded significantly,
if the Sagnac correction due to earth’s rotation
is not taken into account. On the other hand, the orbital
motion of the earth around the sun has a linear speed of
about 30 km/s which is about 100 times that of earth’s
rotation. Thus the present high-precision GPS would be
entirely impossible if the omitted correction due to orbital
motion is really necessary.


In an intercontinental microwave link between Japan and
the USA via a geostationary satellite as relay, the influence
of earth’s rotation is also demonstrated in a high-precision
time comparison between the atomic clocks at two remote
ground stations.
In this transpacific-link experiment, a synchronization
error of as large as about 0.3 µs was observed unexpectedly.


Meanwhile, as in GPS, no effects of earth’s orbital motion
are reported in these links, although they would be
easier to observe if they are in existence. Thereby, it is evident
that the wave propagation in GPS or the intercontinental
microwave link depends on the earth’s rotation, but
is entirely independent of earth’s orbital motion around
the sun or whatever. As a consequence, the propagation
mechanism in GPS or intercontinental link can be viewed
as classical in conjunction with an ECI frame, rather than
the ECEF or any other frame, being selected as the unique
propagation frame. In other words, the wave in GPS or the
intercontinental microwave link can be viewed as propagating
via a classical medium stationary in a geocentric
inertial frame.
Sandokhan
 
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Re: aether

Unread postby ja7tdo » Tue May 14, 2019 3:37 pm

Zyxzevn wrote:But we can go one step back:
I think that Maxwell's idea is obsolete and that aether is unnecessary.

No magnetic fields

-snip-

But this also means that we do not need anything to carry our electromagnetic waves.
So we do not need aether.


hi,
I agree with you.

Light is a pulse of an electric field that travels through the interstellar medium.We can also explain the redshift.In galaxies with little interstellar material, light travels at a speed several million times faster.
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Re: aether

Unread postby toni » Tue May 14, 2019 8:59 pm

Aether is long, low waves that make the cold of space. It must be electric/meaning motion.
Our senses can feel only motion. The sun is its opposite. It is compressed aether, the only
difference is in the volume. It takes tremendous amount of space, aether, to create a star.
We can see many nebulas in space which are dying stars slowly dissolving into cold of
space, returning back to where it started. 0 equilibrium which means magnetic light and
aether are the fabrics of space. Reality would be within that 0 stillness. We can take an
example - the idea, intuition or inner nudging would be magnetic. Our thinking is only
electric and belongs to the physical universe.

Regards,
Toni
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Re: aether

Unread postby Webbman » Wed May 15, 2019 8:18 am

Zyxzevn wrote:Aether seems the result of the research by Maxwell and others, who
tried to define a medium in which waves can be formed.
You can see it in his equations, that are very similar to flow equations.

The way a wave forms is by:
1. electrical currents cause magnetic fields.
2. changing magnetic fields create electrical fields.
3. electrical fields create new currents (or changing dielectric).

But in a vacuum there is no current, nor a physical dielectric.
We can solve this problem by assuming there is some aether that acts like a dielectric.

But as others already stated in this thread, maxwell equations have some flaws.
And then others try to fill in variations of his wave-equations or variations of an aether.

But we can go one step back:
I think that Maxwell's idea is obsolete and that aether is unnecessary.

No magnetic fields

We all kind of agree that magnetic fields are the result of moving electrical charges.
Which are similar to moving electrical fields.

This means that we do not need magnetic fields at all.
They are just a side effect.

But we also know that electromagnetic waves move with the speed of light.

And combined with the idea that magnetism is a side-effect,
the electromagnetic waves become electric-waves.
They are the result of electrical charges moving in periodically (or in circles).
These movements create waves of changing electrical fields, which
we can detect delayed.

So this all means that we only have electrical fields, stationary and moving.

But this also means that we do not need anything to carry our electromagnetic waves.
So we do not need aether.


the problem of course is our lowly permanent magnet that defies your logic. Its not that your wrong its just that youve omitted another pathway for electrical currents. Namely extreme high voltage/ extreme low current pressure waves.

of course for this to work we must have a underlying structure that is already naturally extreme voltage.
We shall know them by their works
Webbman
 
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Re: aether

Unread postby Zyxzevn » Wed May 15, 2019 7:41 pm

Webbman wrote:the problem of course is our lowly permanent magnet that defies your logic.


OK. Practical point.
Additionally we have magnetic momentum of electrons and atoms.

My magnetism is caused by movement of electric fields,
and my "field" is a bit more than just electric.

All force fields need to conserve momentum.
In Aether this momentum would somehow be stored in the Aether.
Einsteinians would store it in photons.
I have to store the momentum in the electrical field.
And with the momentum I also have to store the direction of the movement.

With the movement known, and the distance from the origin, we can
automatically get a magnetic force.
And in my model, it is just the electric force on a exact distance that the field travelled.
So if 2 charges move in the same direction, the electric field from one charge has to move
a slightly higher distance to reach the other charge.
And this corresponds exactly with the magnetic force under normal speeds.

Einsteinians would change time and space to do the same thing.
That is because their force-field travels with the speed of light, and
in their logic that means time must stand still for the force-field.
And each charge would have its own experience of time/space.

With aether, you will have a medium that carries both a dielectric and a magnetic
impedance. My proposal is to drop both, as they are related to maxwell and not
to direct observations.

Electro Magnets do not need energy to sustain a magnetic field.
But they need energy to overcome the electric resistance, and to
build the magnetic field.

Both a magnetic field and electric field contain energy.
In the electrical field, this is the energy that is needed to charge
a capacitor. Since there are always 2 or more charges present.
In a magnetic field there is something similar.
I have not worked out the energy of the magnetic field.

But back to static magnets:
Static magnets have regions of atoms that have a shared magnetic momentum.
And all these regions are aligned.

The electrons carry the magnetic momentum for the atom,
and they do not experience any resistance while producing the magnetic field.
Somehow they do not obey to the law of emitting radiation, while accelerating
in an orbit.

But if you want to aether-ify my model, you can pretend that each electric field
is like an aether. But this aether would be bound to the charges and not to space.

I can also Einstein-ify the model a bit by adding a clock in each charge, this
would only change the speed of physics, but not time itself.

It would be interesting to test all our ideas against each other.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@
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