Transmission of em radiation

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby edcrater » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:55 am

Conventional wisdom has it that light has 2 transverse waves, one electric, and one magnetic. But it propagates forward by a longitudinal wave, called the Poynting Vector.

It is astonishing to me that the electromagnetic medium can support and transmit any number of waves in any one place at the same time. Imagine a source sending laser light north-south, 0.5 millimetre diameter. Now imagine another laser light source shining through it, east-west, 0.5 millimetre diameter. What happens to either light? Apparently nothing!!! This can be repeated with new sources at any angle, all firing through through the same point. Any frequency, any amplitude, doesn't matter. Coherent or incoherent, doesn't matter.

This single point of electromagnetic medium 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 mm can transmit them all simultaneously without change. How does it do this? What happens when you have 10,000 sources all firing through to their receptors, unchanged? Is there no limit on the capacity of space to transmit waves unaltered? What is the mechanism?

What happens when the accuracy of laser targeting means that the space is say 1 nanometer x 1 nanometer x 1 nanometer, and there are 1 million sources? Can an infinite number of rays still pass unhindered and unaffected?

Presumably this applies to all em frequencies.
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby kevin » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:36 am

Edcrater,
I consider light radiates out from mass as it meets the incoming wave from other mass.
this site feels right, see what you think?
http://www.lrcphysics.com/
The moon light last night was amazing, the sky here in the UK was going blue after midnight, I could see everything in ourgarden, but in a different light?
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby junglelord » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:25 am

I had a wonderful experience last night from the moons light as well.
:D
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby altonhare » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:32 pm

Conventional wisdom has it that light has 2 transverse waves, one electric, and one magnetic. But it propagates forward by a longitudinal wave, called the Poynting Vector
-edcrater

It propagates by virtue of the mathematical expression we use to represent it? What is the *physical* mechanism by which it propagates? Nature doesn't care how we model Her with equations.

It is astonishing to me that the electromagnetic medium can support and transmit any number of waves in any one place at the same time.
-edcrater

What is this "electromagnetic medium" physically?

Imagine a source sending laser light north-south, 0.5 millimetre diameter. Now imagine another laser light source shining through it, east-west, 0.5 millimetre diameter. What happens to either light? Apparently nothing!!! This can be repeated with new sources at any angle, all firing through through the same point. Any frequency, any amplitude, doesn't matter. Coherent or incoherent, doesn't matter.
-edcrater

Now this is, indeed, extremely interesting. In fact, this is the most important question in all of physics. Why doesn't light interact with light? The last barrier to the last theory of physics will be this question, i.e. answering this question physically is tantamount to the End of Physics.

Is there no limit on the capacity of space to transmit waves unaltered? What is the mechanism?
-edcrater

Obviously, we will have to elucidate the physical nature of light to answer this question.

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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby edcrater » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:20 pm

kevin wrote:The moon light last night was amazing, the sky here in the UK was going blue after midnight, I could see everything in ourgarden, but in a different light?
Kevin


Awesomely bright here too, don't know why. Night of 12/13, 'darkness did not cover the face of the Earth'. Maybe it is due to the relative angles sun, earth, moon. Or whether it's in/out of the magnetotail. Or atmosphere at its least aerosolised.

Checked out link, thanks. Very complex, needs study. Back soon.
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby substance » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:20 am

altonhare wrote:
It propagates by virtue of the mathematical expression we use to represent it? What is the *physical* mechanism by which it propagates? Nature doesn't care how we model Her with equations.


My highschool physics teacher would gladly argue with you on that one ;) She thinks that nature has put some mathematical laws in matter itself and we just "find" them. :D
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby altonhare » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:02 am

substance wrote:
altonhare wrote:
It propagates by virtue of the mathematical expression we use to represent it? What is the *physical* mechanism by which it propagates? Nature doesn't care how we model Her with equations.


My highschool physics teacher would gladly argue with you on that one ;) She thinks that nature has put some mathematical laws in matter itself and we just "find" them. :D


Nature is doing whatever it's doing. We try to explain what we observe. To have a scientific explanation for an observation you must demonstrate what is happening physically.

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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby edcrater » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:15 am

kevin wrote:this site feels right, see what you think?
http://www.lrcphysics.com/

Kevin:
I have had a look at the lrcphysics website but I'm afraid I cannot give much of an opinion. It's too mathematical for me, and seems to concentrate on a replacement for quantum theory [not that that's a bad thing!]. But many elsewhere have expressed views critical of maths being falsely applied to the physical world, and I wonder if this is another case. Whether it can yield any insights into the nature of emr I can't say, but good luck if you can go with it.

According to the Gaede movie, the nature of light is now regarded as "philosophical", so the physicists now aren't bothering to try and suss it!
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby mague » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:00 am

Hello edcrater,

edcrater wrote:Conventional wisdom has it that light has 2 transverse waves, one electric, and one magnetic. But it propagates forward by a longitudinal wave, called the Poynting Vector.

This is not exactly mainstream. While mainstream defines the observed as light it seem what we know as lights is two or even more things woking together. Thats why they say light is massless but the energy it is transporting has mass.

http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2007/locations/ttt_sunlight.php
Other, again mainstream relativists, say that the photon may slow down extremely, but will to continue to move lightspeed between the energy particles it transports.

edcrater wrote:It is astonishing to me that the electromagnetic medium can support and transmit any number of waves in any one place at the same time. Imagine a source sending laser light north-south, 0.5 millimetre diameter. Now imagine another laser light source shining through it, east-west, 0.5 millimetre diameter. What happens to either light? Apparently nothing!!! This can be repeated with new sources at any angle, all firing through through the same point. Any frequency, any amplitude, doesn't matter. Coherent or incoherent, doesn't matter.

This single point of electromagnetic medium 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 mm can transmit them all simultaneously without change. How does it do this? What happens when you have 10,000 sources all firing through to their receptors, unchanged? Is there no limit on the capacity of space to transmit waves unaltered? What is the mechanism?

What happens when the accuracy of laser targeting means that the space is say 1 nanometer x 1 nanometer x 1 nanometer, and there are 1 million sources? Can an infinite number of rays still pass unhindered and unaffected?

Presumably this applies to all em frequencies.


I guess there is no experimental proove if they fire through unchanged or not. The more i think about it, it seems this is currently not possible to proove experimental.

Outside of mainstream i think Kevin wrote some good things. Could it be that all possible "paths" light is able to travel do exist allready ? Excuse my simple picture, but it seems to me that those paths are the rails. There are there and always have beeen there, the railway carriage is the photon and the payload of the carriage is the energy ?

And if light really isnt interacting with light ( i dont see a real proove there) then probably the connenction photon (carriage) and "railway" has a higher priority/tying force then the force of a possible colission of two energy particles of different photons. So far it seems only dense matter is able to collide with the payload.
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby kevin » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:45 am

I have been thinking very hard,
And trying to picture a dual spiral of mirror like quality.
If light or photons whatever it is were to be fired onto such a spiral mirror would it be sort of trapped along the mirror until it meets another mirror face at another angle to the one it is travelling along, and as it meets these other mirror faces it is scattered off at the angle that the two mirrors meet.
light could therefore travel at superluminal speed whilst it is encased along the spiral mirror , and as it scatters that angle possibly at ninty degrees to the spiral path will give the illusion of a linear line and be measurable to the so called speed of light?
I don't know if that makes sense, i can see in my head what i am thinking, and as I KNOW that the spirals exist, then it makes sense, and dependant upon the radiating signals emitting from each surface, the scattered speed of release may be mathmatically calcuable in proportion to the mass of the radiating body, hence the so called speed of light would be variable , and the amount of release will be variable .
It all will depend on the geometry of mirror faces basically imprisoning light until an opposite signal causes them to scatter, the more that scatter the hotter and more light, more vibration in effect?
I do think some odd things?
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby altonhare » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:22 am

To even begin to answer this question we need to actually know what we're talking about physically when we discuss "EM radiation".
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby edcrater » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:55 am

Kevin, mague:
You might be aware of this but I'll mention it anyway.

A .pdf paper by R A Ashworth, "Confirmation of the Helical Travel of Light through Microwave Waveguide Analyses". Maybe it matches Kevin's spirals.
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby kevin » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:15 am

Edcrater,
Thanks for flagging up Ashworth, everything i detect is tavelling along neutral straight lines, but is refracted into alternative paths especially into spiral pathways leading to vector points of the crossing lines.
His description of helical tubuler pathways which photons are entrapped in fits with what I am thinking of as mirror quality spirals, and until it meets another same and refraction allows the photon to escape, NO LIGHT, as in space.
http://www.omsriram.com/Helical%20Trave ... 0Light.htm
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby kevin » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:59 am

Edcrater,
My head has exploded in recognition of that Ashworth work, ponder on this,
If the sun is positioned in a geometric point where a multitude of the spiral meet, then light is going into the sun, NOT radiating outwards from it.
The sun is in effect a massive resistor that is releasing the light locally above the surface of what is probably a planet, a really big planet, and the bigger they are, the more light is released?
What is been measured as the speed of light , is in effect the spiral outer shield that light( And other information?,scooby dooo)is captured within, the STUFF inside the spirals is experiencing superluminal speed of possible NO TIME?

If those spiral pathways are themselves directed geometrically from faces to SCALE of themselves, then the whole thing is about SCALE.
The sun may be protecting the planets from too much light?
And if at certain alignments it doesn't, then ZAP, massive thunderbolts of STUFF released wherever they align with.
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Re: Transmission of em radiation

Unread postby crawler » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:46 pm

edcrater wrote:Kevin, mague:
You might be aware of this but I'll mention it anyway.

A .pdf paper by R A Ashworth, "Confirmation of the Helical Travel of Light through Microwave Waveguide Analyses". Maybe it matches Kevin's spirals.
I printed the Ashworth pdf. Very interesting. Has similarities to my photaeno theory. I might start a new thread.

Re the OP. I think that tests have shown that a laser beam affects another beam, giving attraction if parallel, repulsion if anti-parallel. All of which conforms to my photaeno-drag theory.
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