And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

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And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby JHL » Mon May 20, 2019 2:43 pm

The Metaphysical Universe marches on!

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/un ... cna1005541
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby Maol » Mon May 20, 2019 4:08 pm

First gravity, now eternity. You just can't count on anything any more like you used to.
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby Cargo » Mon May 20, 2019 10:20 pm

That's going to suck for the fully formed Galaxies we've seen which are RedC 14+ Billions Years Old. I hate to say it, but I have seen this coming for quite a few Moons ago now. Plank is the new Dark. What was once supposed to be the 'width', 'mass' and 'time' of the BB 'size' [Plank], has now been brought forth as the new Einsteinonion measurement of Reality. If you see Plank Anything, be wary.

I think we may be in the final death throes of the old way.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby Roshi » Wed May 22, 2019 1:39 pm

Are they really using one single time axis for the entire Universe? Does it mean there is a single "now" for the entire Universe?

I wonder how can they do that, with clocks everywhere running faster and slower, or both at the same time... Not only clocks - but all physical processes run slower or faster in different parts of the Universe depending on "speed". I heard that if you run fast enough you remain younger, while everyone else gets old. How can anyone tell the "age of the Universe" under these conditions? /sarcasm

http://www.alternativephysics.org/book/ ... llenge.htm
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby crawler » Wed May 22, 2019 5:07 pm

The universe is infinite & has an infinite age & an infinite future.
There is no such thing as time, or, there is, it is the present instant, & it is universal.
There is no such thing as time dilation. But we do have ticking dilation, clocks run slower or faster depending on the aetherwind kmps.

Ticking dilation does not follow the Lorentz equation for gamma. TD follows the length contraction equation for gamma, where the LC (arising from the aetherwind kmps) is inserted into the equation pertaining to the ticking of that clock (eg a pendulum)(eg a tuning fork)(eg a balance wheel clock).
However it is probable that atomic clocks (& only atomic clocks)(& praps light clocks if they exist) do follow the Lorentz TD equation.

I nearly forgot, TD depends on the aetherwind, but it allso depends on the nearness of mass. Nearby mass slows the speed of light, possibly in accordance with Einstein's equation for slowing. But it aint the slowing of the speed of light that affects TD, it is the slowing of the speed of em radiation (ie photaenos) that affects LC & TD.

So now u fellows should be able to have a proper conversation re time & ticking.
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby JHL » Thu May 23, 2019 6:27 am

Roshi wrote:Are they really using one single time axis for the entire Universe? Does it mean there is a single "now" for the entire Universe?


That's an enormous point. Could it be that this X factor isn't in the equations modern theory has constructed the Metaphysical Universe from? Because if it is in these equations, what assumptions is it based on? Is crawler stating that this factor requires an aether?
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby crawler » Thu May 23, 2019 9:06 pm

JHL wrote:
Roshi wrote:Are they really using one single time axis for the entire Universe? Does it mean there is a single "now" for the entire Universe?
That's an enormous point. Could it be that this X factor isn't in the equations modern theory has constructed the Metaphysical Universe from? Because if it is in these equations, what assumptions is it based on? Is crawler stating that this factor requires an aether?
Yes there is a single now for the universe. But i dont think that the existence of this now is of any scientific use. It just means that any science using some kind of sliding now is false.

Aging & ticking are affected by the aetherwind. The greater the wind then the greater the length contraction. A greater LC can result in a faster ticking or a slower ticking depending on the kind of (macro) clock (eg pendulum tuning-fork balance-wheel etc).

Einstein was completely wrong with his time dilation krapp. Einstein of course was talking about macro-clocks, not micro-clocks (eg atomic clocks)(atomic clocks were not yet invented). As it happened we invented atomic-clocks & lo & behold these seemed to nearnuff confirm the Lorentz equation & gamma etc & make Einstein look good. But we have not yet tested macro-clocks, which are the clocks that Einstein had in mind.

Lorentz didnt believe in time dilation (at least initially), & he was correct. He only believed in TD as a usefull math trick, & he was correct. Later on Lorentz possibly believed in TD in the sense of being ticking dilation, but not Einsteinian time dilation. Lorentz quite correctly did not believe any of the STR krapp. And Lorentz believed in the equation for gamma for LC & for TD in the context of the aether, V in gamma being the velocity of the aetherwind (he didnt believe that V was some kind of silly STR relative velocity).

But in answer to that question, a universal now does not need the existence of an aether. I dont see how having an aether helps or hinders the concept of a universal now.
In a way the aether hinders, in the sense that it makes ticking & ticking dilation very complex, because the aetherwind blows in different directions at different speeds at different locations, & at any one location the wind changes with time. Not that ticking or ticking dilation have anything to do with time or universal time or a universal now.

And Lorentz was wrong, & Einstein was partly correct. Koz in addition to the aetherwind affecting LC & TD (as per Lorentz) we have the nearness of mass affecting LC & TD (as per Einstein, Einstein was possibly correct here but for the wrong reasons)(& i dont think that it has been "proven" yet)(proven in the sense of existing, & proven in the sense of the equation being correct)(the equation being gamma, but with the escape V inserted)(which then needs the use of the smaller value for c, which i can call c', being inserted in gamma). I have already explained this in another thread.
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby Webbman » Sun May 26, 2019 7:29 am

would you cooperate with a bunch of dimwitted thugs pretending to be scientists?
We shall know them by their works
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby neilwilkes » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:43 am

crawler wrote:Yes there is a single now for the universe. But i dont think that the existence of this now is of any scientific use. It just means that any science using some kind of sliding now is false.



I would agree with this 100% - it is always now everywhere and everywhen too.
You will never get a man to understand something his salary depends on him not understanding.
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:09 pm

JHL wrote:The Metaphysical Universe marches on!

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/un ... cna1005541


https://www.space.com/24625-oldest-star ... overy.html

They keep trying to reframe the tension between the Planck data sets and the SN1A data sets, and this is just getting messier by the day. Now they have to figure out how a universe can be 12.X billion years old, whereas stars are even older. :)

There's just no way the BB model is going to survive the James Webb program. The mental gymnastics and rationalizations are already reaching the point of pure absurdity. Wait till they start seeing "mature" galaxies for as far as Webb can see. Once the JWST program starts returning deep field images, the concept of a finite "age" and evolutionary process is going to simply fall apart.
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby crawler » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:11 pm

neilwilkes wrote:
crawler wrote:Yes there is a single now for the universe. But i dont think that the existence of this now is of any scientific use. It just means that any science using some kind of sliding now is false.
I would agree with this 100% - it is always now everywhere and everywhen too.
Yes, i think it aint off topic (the expanding universe, the bigbang, GTR, & time) to say more re this time bizness. Einstein's STR is merely a clever mathtrick (& here i mean Mrs E, not silly stupid Alby). There is no Twins Paradox or Twins Contradiction koz STR duznt deal with any reality re time. It is quite ok to hav 2 or more answers etc based on the 2 or more observers with 2 or more velocities. I am happy with that -- Einstein's relative V approach gives goodish quick simple answers. But then u have a bunch of ignoramuses treating that as real time & real ticking & real aging. And hencely in the modern hi tech accurat era STR aint no good no more, we need neoLorentz Relativity.

Actually as i sayd before we need a combination of Lorentz (the aetherwind kmps) & Einstein (the slowing of em radiation near mass).

So, true ticking rate must be measured in the absolute reference frame (aetherwind = zero kmps)(an impossibility), plus it must not be near mass (an impossibility also).

Science cant give us a lab with zero aetherwind & zero nearness to mass. But luckyly for science the ticking of atomic clocks & the lengths of rods are affected by the aetherwind & nearness to mass, hencely science finds itself in the lucky situation that there is an automatic correction built into much of what happens & what is measured in the lab. I sayd much of, not all of. But that needs its own thread.
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:15 pm

Cargo wrote:That's going to suck for the fully formed Galaxies we've seen which are RedC 14+ Billions Years Old. I hate to say it, but I have seen this coming for quite a few Moons ago now. Plank is the new Dark. What was once supposed to be the 'width', 'mass' and 'time' of the BB 'size' [Plank], has now been brought forth as the new Einsteinonion measurement of Reality. If you see Plank Anything, be wary.

I think we may be in the final death throes of the old way.


I agree. I think we're witnessing the last few bizarre rationalizations that will be used to try to justify the expansion interpretation of redshift. The universe is infinite and eternal and it's always been that way. :) The notion of a finite age of the universe has always led to ridiculous conflicts that have never been handled well in the past, and won't be handled well in the future either.

Planck has become the noose around the neck of the BB model. It's not flexible enough to modified much in terms of exotic matter percentages, and ages. It's going to the be the death sentence of the expansion model in the final analysis.
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby crawler » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:25 pm

duplicate....................
Last edited by crawler on Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby crawler » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:25 pm

Michael Mozina wrote:
Cargo wrote:That's going to suck for the fully formed Galaxies we've seen which are RedC 14+ Billions Years Old. I hate to say it, but I have seen this coming for quite a few Moons ago now. Plank is the new Dark. What was once supposed to be the 'width', 'mass' and 'time' of the BB 'size' [Plank], has now been brought forth as the new Einsteinonion measurement of Reality. If you see Plank Anything, be wary.I think we may be in the final death throes of the old way.
I agree. I think we're witnessing the last few bizarre rationalizations that will be used to try to justify the expansion interpretation of redshift. The universe is infinite and eternal and it's always been that way. :) The notion of a finite age of the universe has always led to ridiculous conflicts that have never been handled well in the past, and won't be handled well in the future either.

Planck has become the noose around the neck of the BB model. It's not flexible enough to modified much in terms of exotic matter percentages, and ages. It's going to the be the death sentence of the expansion model in the final analysis.
What we hav is an infinte dynamic steady state universe made up of an infinite number of self sustaining cosmic cells where (sub atomic) aether is created & later annihilated (inside matter) & free photons are created & where free photons are turned into confined photons (making electrons & quarks etc)(quantum matter), & later where confined photons become free photons & reduce to aether & later aether is annihilated & is reduced to praether (the fundamental subquantum essence)(which probly cant be destroyed).
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Re: And now the universe itself isn't cooperating

Unread postby webolife » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:15 am

I would like to look at this article a little different way. Once you get past the journalist headlining, and the presumptive dribble of the introduction paragraphs, the writer actually captures the truly tentative nature of honest scientific inquiry. A questioning of assumptions about the data.The open admission that we don't really "know" what we thought we did. The relentless pursuit of a better theory. The insightful look into how actual scientists feel about the mysteries they are trying to come to grips with. With this honest approach, the universe DOES cooperate!
What exists exists, and that is right now. Time is a logical construct, a way of thinking about change... not a physical entity. There is (and can be) NO evidence for an infinite universe. This proposition is purely metaphysical. That does not preclude it being true. However what we see is always and everywhere discrete objects of finite/measurable size and extent. If you surmise an infinite universe, you must also relent to the infinitesmal. If there is a smallest particle, there must also be a largest. Hypothesizing an undetectable aether that wisps in and out of existence does not solve this problem.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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