The Boring Sun

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:45 pm

Far side of the Moon is purple! From the DSLWP-B (Longjiang-2) camera of the Chinese Chang’e-4 lunar far side mission.
Image
Near side:
Image
More images:
http://lilacsat.hit.edu.cn/dashboard/pa ... ics-b.html
I have found no technical details of the camera so far.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:37 pm

Rupert Sheldrake - Is The Sun Conscious? Electric Universe UK presentation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFhsObpja8A
A machine that is also conscious perhaps, but not conscious on any level that we would understand.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:41 pm

Image
This image from Parker Solar Probe's WISPR (Wide-field Imager for Solar Probe) instrument shows a coronal streamer, seen over the east limb of the Sun on Nov. 8, 2018, at 1:12 a.m. EST.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... olar-probe

The Wide-Field Imager for Solar Probe Plus (WISPR)
WISPR will observe the Thomson-scattered light from the solar wind electrons. This
scattering process has a sensitivity dependence on the geometry between the Sun, observer and scattering electron. Vourlidas and Howard (2006) have shown that the observing geometry must be taken into account for the proper interpretation of coronagraph and heliospheric imager observations.

https://orbi.uliege.be/bitstream/2268/200751/1/The%20Wide-Field%20Imager%20for%20Solar%20Probe%20Plus%20(WISPR).pdf

The Interaction of Light with Matter: I - Scattering
Understanding radiative processes, and the interaction of photons with matter, it is important to realize that all photon emission mechanisms arise from accelerating electrical charge.

http://www.astro.yale.edu/vdbosch/astro ... mary23.pdf
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:22 pm

The Chinese will likely attempt the lunar far side landing within the next few days as the far side will be illuminated. I hope they are successful, and if they are that they will be much more forthcoming in sharing photos or videos than they have been in the past.
50 years since Apollo 8 visited the Moon, so here is a little of what we saw from that mission by way of the TV camera. They are viewing the Earth, but starting at around the 5 minute mark in this youtube video command control asks about a view of the Moon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L44DBP0CPAk
At the 7 minute mark control asks them if they could get some spot meter readings. I am unable to find any information on those readings, and after 50 years we still do not have any photometric data for the actual brightness of the lunar day side, and certainly none for an illuminated far side.
The vidicon based TV camera was a low light level device, 0.1 ft.candles minimum to 30 maximum. Full daylight on Earth is 1000 ft.candles, an overcast day 100, so they were not expecting any bright illumination. I hope the Chinese are taking along some very sensitive gear, as by my reckoning an illuminated far side will be even darker.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:14 pm

Image
A photo taken at 11:40 a.m. and sent back by Chang'e 4 shows a small crater and a barren surface that appears to be illuminated by a light from the lunar explorer.

https://phys.org/news/2019-01-china-pro ... state.html
Why would they need a light from the explorer when they are in full sunlight? Images from the Apollo missions also had people claiming that a light had been used as there is bright centre and a strong fall off of the illumination at the edges of the photo, but in looking into this it would seem that the angle of the Sun WRT the camera will produce this effect due to the strong backscatter of the surface material. The Sun would be behind the camera, looking over its shoulder, so to speak.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby fosborn_ » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:37 am

GaryN wrote:Image
A photo taken at 11:40 a.m. and sent back by Chang'e 4 shows a small crater and a barren surface that appears to be illuminated by a light from the lunar explorer.

https://phys.org/news/2019-01-china-pro ... state.html
Why would they need a light from the explorer when they are in full sunlight? Images from the Apollo missions also had people claiming that a light had been used as there is bright centre and a strong fall off of the illumination at the edges of the photo, but in looking into this it would seem that the angle of the Sun WRT the camera will produce this effect due to the strong backscatter of the surface material. The Sun would be behind the camera, looking over its shoulder, so to speak.


There is no lighting from the explorer, just your assumption, the same down range look from the Sun effect, is in the apollo pictures also, possibly due to the glass beads in the soil. IMO.
The far hills are illuminated also, no local light source can do that. IMO
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:05 pm

There is no lighting from the explorer, just your assumption,


No, it is the AP reporter who made the assumption, he was obviously not aware of the backscatter phenomena. I did not say there was a light from the explorer. What I am hoping is that there will be enough photos in the future to be able to determine the lighting conditions, though I have no doubt there will never be any actual luminance figures available.
If Earthshine produces much of the light on the lunar near side then there should be some noticeable differences in lighting. The fine lunar dust on the far side will loft just as it does on the near side when the Sun is up, which allows for the fluorescent production of the sunlight that there obviously is, at the time of the photo, on the far side.
If the camera was to look sideways so the backscatter was not so strong, what would the ambient surface lighting be like? My theory would say darker than the near side, but I admit it is just a theory.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:59 pm

Image

They don't look like "far hills" in the background, just more raised features in the crater they landed in (Von Karmon).
But then, i wasn't there...

http://www.sci-news.com/space/change-4-06785.html
Last edited by seasmith on Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby Cargo » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:13 pm

Tow pictures from the same camera, but different resolutions on them. But you can see the change in shadow angles on a few lunar surfaces objects.
http://cdn.sci-news.com/images/enlarge5 ... ange-4.jpg
http://cdn.sci-news.com/images/enlarge5 ... ange-4.jpg
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:26 am

Taking photos on the Moon is not as simple as it might seem.

Research in Astronomy and Astrophysics
A method and results of color calibration for the Chang'e-3 terrain camera and panoramic camera

There are no verifiable conclusions about the true range of color in visible light on the lunar surface and the effect of human visual perception. On the other hand, the change in light conditions on the lunar surface, camera imaging angle, distribution of lunar surface rocks and minerals, the composition of material in lunar soil and other factors will cause differences in color images taken on the lunar surface. Hence, it is difficult to judge the true color of the lunar surface environment from PCAM and TCAM images.

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.10 ... 12/005/pdf

I think this is the Terrain camera device, a Falcon 4M30, it has the same format, pixel size and colour response curves as in the above paper.
http://www.adept.net.au/cameras/dalsa/p ... 4M30_c.pdf

Understanding Camera Sensitivity
https://www.lumenera.com/blog/understan ... he-numbers

The reason they don't send a higher resolution camera with a zoom lens is likely because of the low lux values during most of the lunar day, though at certain Sun angles it may be much brighter. The Apollo astronauts told us the lighting on the surface was very strange indeed, think I'll have to go check it out myself. :D
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 pm

Chinese moon rover Jade Rabbit 2 is taking a siesta as the mid day sun is too hot. So why is the Sun any hotter at noon than first thing in the morning if there is no atmosphere as on Earth to moderate the low angle Sun?
I'll not be satisfied with the supposed conditions on the Moon until I get there and take a look, so now I'm wondering where the best place would be to try and thumb a ride with one of the alien groups that this ex-military man says are now visiting Earth and have been for millennia.
Cosmic Top Secret - Robert Bob Dean (1 hour and 40 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ergzkwCA1cQ
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby moses » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:41 pm

Hi Gary,
the length of the Moon day is about 14 days and then 14 days of night. So things get exceedingly cold at night and then warm up in sunlight but after some time in the Sunlight things get hot. So them saying the Sun is hotter is technically incorrect but it is common language and really the Sun is always at the same temperature. So just a language thingy.

Yeah I watch a lot of those alien videos but the subject is taboo here.
Cheers,
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:31 pm

Doesn't look blindingly bright on the lunar far side here but without any image information it is not really possible to tell.
Image
In this image the sun would seem to de directly overhead:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/jan/11/total-success-china-broadcasts-images-far-side-moon-chang-e-4#img-1
So if the camera can tilt and they pointed it away from the surface and took a long exposure would we see stars? Will the Chinese try for another first, the starry sky seen from the Moon?
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:25 pm

Looking at the Chang'e images and the changes to the lunar surface colour and brightness with Sun elevation and camera orientation, I wonder why we do not see any variations in the Moons appearance from Earth? Opposition surge, an increase in brightness when the Sun is looking over Earths shoulder, is due to either coherent backscatter or shadow hiding Wikipedia tells us.
What about the Moonlight spectrum, does it change with illumination or viewing geometry? Not much info on that, so this chap did his own measurements:
Spectrum of moon light.
http://www.olino.org/blog/us/articles/2 ... moon-light
There is even less info on the spectrum of Moonlight from space, and even the spectrum of the Sun from low Earth orbit, let alone deep space, is still lacking precision.
Top-of-the-Atmosphere Sunlight — As Seen from Earth
https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2 ... seen-earth
I'd think we should see some noticeable variations in the Moons colour and brightness from Earth during a month, other than opposition brightening.Images from orbit during Apollo missions show the backscatter highlighting, why don't we see that from Earth?
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:22 pm

What a coincidence, a total eclipse of a supermoon tonight, on my birthday and at about the time I was born. Have to get the camera out and hope that the skies are clear, though the Moon was so bright last night I could see it quite clearly through the cloud cover. Maybe my ride to the Moon will show up too? ;)
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