The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

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The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby +EyeOn-W-ANeed2Know » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:42 am

Been a while since I posted here, but when I read this, I couldn't help but wonder what the rest of the TBP community would think...

https://www.simonsfoundation.org/2019/0 ... on-course/

This article outlines 2 vitally important things:
1) These theorists have VERY active imaginations & they don't know WTH they're looking.
2) It's a shining example of why the alterations to LIGO's Noise Detection Algorithms was a REALLY bad move. In just a couple of years, it's gone from a GW being only theoretical to them hearing them constantly. If fact, the changes they made means their discernment has dropped so low, the mainstream has now accepted that GWs have they're own background noise level!!!

"“This noise is called the gravitational wave background, and it’s a bit like a chaotic chorus of crickets chirping in the night,” says Goulding. “You can’t discern one cricket from another, but the volume of the noise helps you estimate how many crickets are out there.” (When two supermassive black holes finally collide and combine, they send out a thundering chirp that dwarfs all others. Such an event is brief and extraordinarily rare, though, so scientists don’t expect to detect one any time soon.)"

Even though they were originally said to be able to, apparently SMBHC type GWs are beyond the range of our incredible earthly detector facilities (even though the first GW signal was more than 53X LIGO's supposed detection range).

Now the claims are that type of GWs are so powerful, they are the cause of disturbances in the Radio Wave output of Pulsars.

""The gravitational waves generated by supermassive black hole pairs are outside the frequencies currently observable by experiments such as LIGO and Virgo. Instead, gravitational wave hunters rely on arrays of special stars called pulsars that act like metronomes. The rapidly spinning stars send out radio waves in a steady rhythm. If a passing gravitational wave stretches or compresses the space between Earth and the pulsar, the rhythm is slightly thrown off.""
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby Cargo » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:28 pm

I'll take Door #1. They are completely in the land of fantasy.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby crawler » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:23 pm

U can bet there are crickets close to the two ligos, & lots of chirping at dusk.
I believe that there are lots of Michellian dark stars out there, & that some are in pairs, & i believe that they can merge -- but there aint no such thing as gravity waves thusly no such thing as GW chirps.
Conrad Ranzan has 3 new papers out re the source of polar jets & hi energy neutrinos etc, & some old papers re the collapse of blackholes (Conrad is a semi-Einsteinian).
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby Cargo » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:51 pm

"It is imperative, however, to understand what is going on in the minds of theoretical physicists. It is assumption upon assumption, building theories on the backs of other theories that can provide no experimental evidence."

"At the center of M81 is a supermassive black hole that is about 70 million times more massive than the Sun."

https://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009 ... assive.htm
Going way back with that link :)
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby crawler » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:26 am

Cargo wrote:"It is imperative, however, to understand what is going on in the minds of theoretical physicists. It is assumption upon assumption, building theories on the backs of other theories that can provide no experimental evidence."

"At the center of M81 is a supermassive black hole that is about 70 million times more massive than the Sun."

https://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009 ... assive.htm
Going way back with that link :)
Conrad Ranzan's latest papers (everyone here knows his DSSU website) reveal the cause of ultra high energy neutrinos & gamma rays etc (mentioned in Smith's article in that link). The answer is the mirror image of Ranzan's explanation of cosmic redshift (redshift is due to the stretching of photons as photons approach mass & then a 2nd dose as they depart).

Ultra high energy neutrinos etc are due to blueshift suffered by neutrinos etc as they cross throo inside a supermassive star (a Ranzanian dark star) due to the continuous & continual contraction of neutrinos etc when they are trapped for years just inside the far surface of the dark star, the energetic neutrinos etc finally being emitted at the poles due to various factors. The trapping is due to the aetherwind inflow, flowing at the speed of light. Ranzan is a genius. And i can add to his explanation in the bits where his explanation leaks a little (i hav my own ideas).

In a sense Ranzan's explanation involves an event horizon associated with a blackhole, but a different kind of horizon, & a different kind of black hole.
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby Sci-Phy » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:14 am

They know exactly what they are doing. I'm pretty sure their salary is bigger than mine.
Of course the whole idea is extremely stupid. LIGO measuring distance in "spacetime" using light and light is affected by such spacetime according to GR. For me it looks like study of thermal expansion using plastic ruler.
LIGO interferometer has tremendous precision. The precision in fact is 10000 smaller than the size of proton or around 10^-19m! Such precision is ten orders smaller compare to the light wavelength. I doubted it is possible to get interferometer precision better than quater of wavelength. Atom thermal vibration is around 10^-11m.
Any concept of waves in empty space is nonsence. Wave without returning force is not possible. In the mass on the spring example the returning force is F=-kx. The kinetic energy is transferring to potential energy of the spring and the mass is slowing down. Imagine EM wave - the amplitude of E at some point is rising, rising.. then what? What exactly cause electric field to stop rising? There are nothing around, just empty space and field do not interact with field.
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby crawler » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:57 pm

Sci-Phy wrote:They know exactly what they are doing. I'm pretty sure their salary is bigger than mine.
Of course the whole idea is extremely stupid. LIGO measuring distance in "spacetime" using light and light is affected by such spacetime according to GR. For me it looks like study of thermal expansion using plastic ruler.
LIGO interferometer has tremendous precision. The precision in fact is 10000 smaller than the size of proton or around 10^-19m! Such precision is ten orders smaller compare to the light wavelength. I doubted it is possible to get interferometer precision better than quater of wavelength. Atom thermal vibration is around 10^-11m.
Any concept of waves in empty space is nonsence. Wave without returning force is not possible. In the mass on the spring example the returning force is F=-kx. The kinetic energy is transferring to potential energy of the spring and the mass is slowing down. Imagine EM wave - the amplitude of E at some point is rising, rising.. then what? What exactly cause electric field to stop rising? There are nothing around, just empty space and field do not interact with field.
Yes a plastic ruler. What many dont know is that LIGO is supposed to work because the 40 mm laser supposedly does not suffer length contraction due to the passing of a supposed GW, whereas the 4 km of distance tween hanging mirrors supposedly does. In effect this then involves a rigid laser (ruler) & a non-rigid 4km tween hanging mirrors.
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby Aardwolf » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:27 am

crawler wrote:
Sci-Phy wrote:They know exactly what they are doing. I'm pretty sure their salary is bigger than mine.
Of course the whole idea is extremely stupid. LIGO measuring distance in "spacetime" using light and light is affected by such spacetime according to GR. For me it looks like study of thermal expansion using plastic ruler.
LIGO interferometer has tremendous precision. The precision in fact is 10000 smaller than the size of proton or around 10^-19m! Such precision is ten orders smaller compare to the light wavelength. I doubted it is possible to get interferometer precision better than quater of wavelength. Atom thermal vibration is around 10^-11m.
Any concept of waves in empty space is nonsence. Wave without returning force is not possible. In the mass on the spring example the returning force is F=-kx. The kinetic energy is transferring to potential energy of the spring and the mass is slowing down. Imagine EM wave - the amplitude of E at some point is rising, rising.. then what? What exactly cause electric field to stop rising? There are nothing around, just empty space and field do not interact with field.
Yes a plastic ruler. What many dont know is that LIGO is supposed to work because the 40 mm laser supposedly does not suffer length contraction due to the passing of a supposed GW, whereas the 4 km of distance tween hanging mirrors supposedly does. In effect this then involves a rigid laser (ruler) & a non-rigid 4km tween hanging mirrors.
Yes and this issue is the very first question on their FAQ page;
LIGO Caltech wrote:If a gravitational wave stretches the distance between the LIGO mirrors, doesn't it also stretch the wavelength of the laser light?
And the first sentence of the "answer";
LIGO Caltech wrote:While it's true that a gravitational wave does stretch and squeeze the wavelength of the light in the arms ever so slightly, it does NOT affect the fact that the beams will travel different distances as the wave changes each arm's length. And the only thing that matters to LIGO is how far the beams travel in each arm before being merged once again.
Which of course doesn't address the quesion at all. Why is the light travelling different distances in each arm? They admit it's affected but then go on to say the distances are different. They can only be different if the light is completely unaffected by the GW. It makes no logical sense. You might as well say they have a special piece of string unaffected by the expansion and contraction of space and time.

Billions have been wasted on this garbage.
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby Sci-Phy » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:01 am

The gravity wave is disturbance in curvature of spacetime.
Such curvature is very interesting question itself. According to their math the space is curved when Pythagoras length is not equals to measured length. It's probably against human nature trying to imagine curved 3D space, my brain was boiled right away. I am taking 1D analogy. Imagine 1D world in a line and two points on it. Measure the distance between points and bend this line. It does not matter how you bent it, in 1D world they could only measure the distance ALONG the line and such distance will always be equals to Pythagoras distance!
Another question - could this "fabric" be stretched, not just bended? I have a feeling that it is very similar to "how many liters of vacuum could be fitted in one liter bottle?".
Interesting approach could be found in Jean de Climont book "Failure of Pure Science". Bend the 1D world and move along the line with constant velocity - centrifugal force appeared in the dimension which is not part of this world. It's like rotation around the point in 2D world. In 3D world rotation will be around axis and in 4D world rotation will be around plane (my brain is curved here). If we are rotating around plane, then analog of centrifugal force will act along time axis (not sure what does it mean).
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby crawler » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:52 pm

Aardwolf wrote:
crawler wrote:
Sci-Phy wrote:They know exactly what they are doing. I'm pretty sure their salary is bigger than mine.
Of course the whole idea is extremely stupid. LIGO measuring distance in "spacetime" using light and light is affected by such spacetime according to GR. For me it looks like study of thermal expansion using plastic ruler.
LIGO interferometer has tremendous precision. The precision in fact is 10000 smaller than the size of proton or around 10^-19m! Such precision is ten orders smaller compare to the light wavelength. I doubted it is possible to get interferometer precision better than quater of wavelength. Atom thermal vibration is around 10^-11m.
Any concept of waves in empty space is nonsence. Wave without returning force is not possible. In the mass on the spring example the returning force is F=-kx. The kinetic energy is transferring to potential energy of the spring and the mass is slowing down. Imagine EM wave - the amplitude of E at some point is rising, rising.. then what? What exactly cause electric field to stop rising? There are nothing around, just empty space and field do not interact with field.
Yes a plastic ruler. What many dont know is that LIGO is supposed to work because the 40 mm laser supposedly does not suffer length contraction due to the passing of a supposed GW, whereas the 4 km of distance tween hanging mirrors supposedly does. In effect this then involves a rigid laser (ruler) & a non-rigid 4km tween hanging mirrors.
Yes and this issue is the very first question on their FAQ page;
LIGO Caltech wrote:If a gravitational wave stretches the distance between the LIGO mirrors, doesn't it also stretch the wavelength of the laser light?
And the first sentence of the "answer";
LIGO Caltech wrote:While it's true that a gravitational wave does stretch and squeeze the wavelength of the light in the arms ever so slightly, it does NOT affect the fact that the beams will travel different distances as the wave changes each arm's length. And the only thing that matters to LIGO is how far the beams travel in each arm before being merged once again.
Which of course doesn't address the quesion at all. Why is the light travelling different distances in each arm? They admit it's affected but then go on to say the distances are different. They can only be different if the light is completely unaffected by the GW. It makes no logical sense. You might as well say they have a special piece of string unaffected by the expansion and contraction of space and time. Billions have been wasted on this garbage.
I didnt know that LIGO covered that in their FAQs. Anyhow, i think that LIGO reckon that the laser suffers a little bit of LC, not enough to hurt the wavelength. Because solids resist LC, ie LC due to GWs. Resist to me means that the laser suffers a little bit of LC. I saw this "resist" used in a paper from about 1997 (karnt remember the author).

Which is all kind of opposite to Lorentzian LC (LLC is due to any change in the velocity of the aetherwind). In LLC solids suffer LC but non-solid space etc doesnt. Which means that (if a change in aetherwind) the laser suffers LC (hencely the wavelength suffers), but the distance tween hanging mirrors duznt suffer an LLC (except that the mirrors suffer LLC). Hencely the center to center dist tween mirrors stays the same, but the clear dist tween mirrors increases (or changes)(u know what i mean).

Anyhow, how do LIGO know that GWs dont have a large LC effect on solids.
And how do they know that GWs have an LC effect (a full LC effect) on empty space.

LIGO reckons that a squeezing of spacetime affects the size of empty space but has little or zero affect on the size of solids. This might be the silliest postulate in their whole experiment.

It means that if the hanging mirrors were fixed instead of hanging then LIGO's sensitivity would depend on the difference in the % resistance to LC by the laser compared to the pipeline, ie glass compared to steel. This might be complicated if the pipeline has expansion-contraction joints.
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby +EyeOn-W-ANeed2Know » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:15 pm

Something tells me if they re-instituted their original detection parameters (the ones that with a high degree of certainty identified GW150914 as noise), all their "successes" would vanish like fairy farts in a Cat 6 & we'd likely never hear another chirp outta them.... LIGO would the fall into a state of disrepair similar to the unfortunate fate of Herouni's Antenna.
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby ja7tdo » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:11 pm

LIGO claims that the effect of SLF has been removed with a digital filter, but the observed gravitational wave vibration is around 100 Hz. It is just the vibration by SLF.

LIGO detected not the gravity wave but the SLF wave
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby Prospector » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:34 pm

If space-time is deformed then there is a deforming force, presumed to be gravity, and a restoring force, which is unknown. Why is nobody looking for the restoring force? This sounds like another case of people seeing something just because their theory says they should see it.
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby Zyxzevn » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:53 pm

ja7tdo wrote:LIGO claims that the effect of SLF has been removed with a digital filter, but the observed gravitational wave vibration is around 100 Hz. It is just the vibration by SLF.

Their idea is that the Chirp-like wave-shape is unique.
But it is not in SLF / electrical signals,
nor with any other non-linear signals.

The "results" of LIGO are mostly based on belief.
The signal with the 10 Echoes really showed how bad their instrument is.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@
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Re: The Gravity wave nonsense pile deepens

Unread postby nick c » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:20 am

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