The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby neilwilkes » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:40 am

Michael Mozina wrote:
neilwilkes wrote:It is fascinating to look closer at the above website, where we read under the heading "The Sun" the following statement:
Dangerous electron and protons are not able to penetrate down to Earth's surface but are forced to move around it by the magnetic field.

Yeah, right - so these particles never get to the surface? Utter twaddle....


Unfortunately there's a lot of oversimplified nonsense being sold to us as "science".

In the case of the PSP program, I'm going to wait and see what they come up with before I pass judgement. I've certainly seen far worse programs in terms of money spent on frivolous studies. After looking over the hardware specs on the PSP, I don't think we could have asked for a more comprehensive array of sensors to detect electric and magnetic fields and track particle movements around the probe. Its pretty much an ideal system in terms of it's overall capabilities, and it has the capacity to revolutionize solar physics research. For now I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. :)

FYI, I think one of the most annoying aspects of the proposed new FCC collider is the fact it's being sold under the guise of finding "dark matter", as though the existence of DM is a scientific certainty. It does underscore Eisenhower's concern about "big science", and it's willingness of oversell it's product. IMO however the LHC was pretty successful in terms of testing the standard model of particle physics as well as testing (and obliterating) a number of non-standard SUSY type models. I'd more more inclined to support a bigger collider if they were simply honest about the fact that their primary motive is 'pure scientific curiosity' and they had no idea what they might find.

In terms of *undermining* the whole exotic matter claims, I don't think we could have asked for more than LHC has already delivered. :) At best case a new collider wouldn't become operational until 2050, and by then I think the EU/PC model will dominate astronomy. A bigger collider might be worthwhile in the sense that it may point the way to tying at least three of the four known forces of nature together via the EM field. It can't be a coincidence that slamming electrons and positrons together creates more complex subatomic particles.

I seriously doubt that the PSP team will be willing to discuss their findings until they have a few close passes under their belts and they start to see patterns emerging. Unfortunately that process could drag out for awhile yet. I am however hopeful that they will make some important announcements in the not too distant future that will support one or more electric solar models. Stay tuned.


All fair enough points, but my suspicion is that after anything they propose to publish goes through peer review it will at the very best have been emasculated and at the worst utterly crucified because thou shalt not criticize accepted paradigms
You will never get a man to understand something his salary depends on him not understanding.
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:49 am

neilwilkes wrote:All fair enough points, but my suspicion is that after anything they propose to publish goes through peer review it will at the very best have been emasculated and at the worst utterly crucified because thou shalt not criticize accepted paradigms


Maybe, but I can' even look at a higher energy SDO image without seeing the electrical activity in it.

The mainstream's reconnection model is physically incapable of producing a sustained, hot, full sphere solar corona and aurora in a lab. It's been more than a full century since circuit theory has offered a simple way to explain them, and it's been simulated in the lab with circuit theory for more than a century. What's their excuse for being unable to demonstrate a working model at this point?

It's almost comical the lengths the mainstream will go to in an effort to avoid the most obvious solution, but sooner or later the most obvious solution tends to win out.

I don't know how such a well built satellite could miss measuring electric fields and strong magnetic fields as it get's closer and closer to the sun.
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby seasmith » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:30 pm

`
Michael, Did you happen to catch this paper featured recently by Ben on SpaceWeathernews.com ?

MAPPING THE MAGNETIC FIELD OF FLARE CORONAL LOOPS
2019
This first high-resolution measurement of the magnetic field strength of solar coronal loops represents a major step for- ward in understanding coronal magnetism. The observations and analysis prove that, under certain circumstances, the high- resolution spectropolarimetry of the Ca ii 8542 Å line gives an accurate measure of the coronal field. This constraint is cru- cial for physical models of coronal active regions, flares and eruptions, and provides a validation of widely-used numer- ical methods for the extrapolation of photospheric magnetic fields in the corona. Furthermore, the result is important for new-generation ground-based solar telescopes such as 4-m Daniel K. Inouye Solar Telescope (DKIST) and Euro- pean Solar Telescope (EST) (first lights in 2020 and 2027, respectively). These telescopes will have advanced chromo- spheric polarimetric capabilities, which as demonstrated here, can provide powerful diagnostics for the coronal magnetic field.

(open source)
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1902.07514.pdf
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:40 pm

seasmith wrote:`
Michael, Did you happen to catch this paper featured recently by Ben on SpaceWeathernews.com ?

MAPPING THE MAGNETIC FIELD OF FLARE CORONAL LOOPS
2019
This first high-resolution measurement of the magnetic field strength of solar coronal loops represents a major step for- ward in understanding coronal magnetism. The observations and analysis prove that, under certain circumstances, the high- resolution spectropolarimetry of the Ca ii 8542 Å line gives an accurate measure of the coronal field. This constraint is cru- cial for physical models of coronal active regions, flares and eruptions, and provides a validation of widely-used numer- ical methods for the extrapolation of photospheric magnetic fields in the corona. Furthermore, the result is important for new-generation ground-based solar telescopes such as 4-m Daniel K. Inouye Solar Telescope (DKIST) and Euro- pean Solar Telescope (EST) (first lights in 2020 and 2027, respectively). These telescopes will have advanced chromo- spheric polarimetric capabilities, which as demonstrated here, can provide powerful diagnostics for the coronal magnetic field.

(open source)
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1902.07514.pdf


Ya, I saw that paper and I commented on it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/plasmacosmolog ... _field_is/

After admitting that they've never even been in the right ballpark (factor of 10 off), suffice to say that I have zero confidence that the mainstream has a clue what the actual magnetic fields around coronal loops are. Based on the extreme heat that is produced in coronal loops, the amount of current required would generate magnetic fields that would necessarily be a lot higher.
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby MrAmsterdam » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:52 am

Check the sensor specs - sorry for the long list but it seems that ESA has every flavor of sensors on board the SOLAR ORIBITER.

INSTRUMENTS LIST SOLAR ORBITER

http://sci.esa.int/solar-orbiter/51217-instruments/

INSTRUMENTS

The scientific payload elements of Solar Orbiter are being provided by ESA Member States, NASA and ESA. They have been selected and funded through a competitive selection process. The Solar Orbiter payload accommodates a set of in situ and a set of remote-sensing instruments, with a total payload mass of 180 kg.


Payload accommodation onboard Solar Orbiter. Credit: ESA

The in-situ instruments:

EPD: Energetic Particle Detector

Principal Investigator: Javier Rodríguez-Pacheco, University of Alcala, Spain
Collaborating countries (hardware): Spain, Germany, USA, ESA
EPD will measure the composition, timing and distribution functions of suprathermal and energetic particles. Scientific topics to be addressed include the sources, acceleration mechanisms, and transport processes of these particles.

MAG: Magnetometer

Principal Investigator: Tim Horbury, Imperial College London, United Kingdom
Collaborating countries (hardware): United Kingdom
The magnetometer will provide in situ measurements of the heliospheric magnetic field with high precision. This will facilitate detailed studies into the way the Sun’s magnetic field links into space and evolves over the solar cycle; how particles are accelerated and propagate around the Solar System, including to the Earth; how the corona and solar wind are heated and accelerated.

RPW: Radio and Plasma Waves

Principal Investigator: Milan Maksimovic, LESIA, Observatoire de Paris, France
Collaborating Countries (hardware): France, Sweden, Czech Republic, Austria
The RPW experiment is unique amongst the Solar Orbiter instruments in that it makes both in situ and remote-sensing measurements. RPW will measure magnetic and electric fields at high time resolution using a number of sensors/antennas, to determine the characteristics of electromagnetic and electrostatic waves in the solar wind.

SWA: Solar Wind Plasma Analyser

Principal Investigator: Christopher Owen, Mullard Space Science Laboratory, United Kingdom
Collaborating countries (hardware): United Kingdom, Italy, France, USA
The Solar Wind Plasma Analyser, SWA, consists of a suite of sensors that will measure the ion and electron bulk properties (including, density, velocity, and temperature) of the solar wind, thereby characterising the solar wind between 0.28 and 1.4 AU from the Sun. In addition to determining the bulk properties of the wind, SWA will provide measurements of solar wind ion composition for key elements (e.g. the C, N, O group and Fe, Si or Mg).


The remote-sensing instruments:

EUI: Extreme Ultraviolet Imager

Principal Investigator: Pierre Rochus, Centre Spatial de Liège, Belgium
Collaborating countries (hardware): Belgium, United Kingdom, France, Germany, Switzerland
EUI will provide image sequences of the solar atmospheric layers above the photosphere, thereby providing an indispensable link between the solar surface and outer corona that ultimately shapes the characteristics of the interplanetary medium. EUI will also provide the first-ever UV images of the Sun from an out-of-ecliptic viewpoint (up to 34° of solar latitude during the extended mission phase).

METIS: Coronagraph

Principal Investigator: Marco Romoli, INAF – University of Florence, Italy
Collaborating countries (hardware): Italy, Germany, Czech Republic
METIS will simultaneously image the visible, ultraviolet and extreme ultraviolet emission of the solar corona and diagnose, with unprecedented temporal coverage and spatial resolution, the structure and dynamics of the full corona in the range from 1.4 to 3.0 (from 1.7 to 4.1) solar radii from Sun centre, at minimum (maximum) perihelion during the nominal mission. This is a region that is crucial in linking the solar atmospheric phenomena to their evolution in the inner heliosphere.

PHI: Polarimetric and Helioseismic Imager

Principal Investigator: Sami Solanki, Max-Planck-Institut für Sonnensystemforschung, Germany
Collaborating countries (hardware): Germany, Spain, France
The Polarimetric and Helioseismic Imager, PHI, will provide high-resolution and full-disc measurements of the photospheric vector magnetic field and line-of-sight (LOS) velocity as well as the continuum intensity in the visible wavelength range. The LOS velocity maps will have the accuracy and stability to allow detailed helioseismic investigations of the solar interior, in particular of the solar convection zone.

SoloHI: Heliospheric Imager

Principal Investigator: Russell A. Howard, US Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, D.C., USA
Collaborating countries (hardware): USA
This instrument will image both the quasi-steady flow and transient disturbances in the solar wind over a wide field of view by observing visible sunlight scattered by solar wind electrons. It will provide unique measurements to pinpoint coronal mass ejections (CMEs).
SPICE: Spectral Imaging of the Coronal Environment
Principal Investigator: Not applicable - European-led facility instrument
Principal Investigator for Operations Phase: Frédéric Auchère, IAS, Orsay, France
Collaborating countries (hardware): United Kingdom, Germany, France, Switzerland, USA
This instrument will perform extreme ultraviolet imaging spectroscopy to remotely characterize plasma properties of the Sun's on-disc corona. This will enable matching in-situ composition signatures of solar wind streams to their source regions on the Sun's surface.

STIX: X-ray Spectrometer/Telescope

Principal Investigator: Säm Krucker, FHNW, Windisch, Switzerland
Collaborating countries (hardware): Switzerland, Poland, Germany, Czech Republic, France
STIX provides imaging spectroscopy of solar thermal and non-thermal X-ray emission. STIX will provide quantitative information on the timing, location, intensity, and spectra of accelerated electrons as well as of high temperature thermal plasmas, mostly associated with flares and/or microflares.
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby crawler » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:53 pm

No sensor for liquid metallic hydrogen?
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby Cargo » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:56 pm

I can't help but point out the word play going on. And the extreme misnomers and false definitions to sway simple minds away from the truth.
particles
solar wind
waves in the solar wind.
Solar Wind Plasma Analyser
interplanetary medium
solar atmospheric phenomena
convection
solar wind electrons
solar wind streams
thermal plasmas
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby nick c » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:11 am

I can't help but point out the word play going on. And the extreme misnomers and false definitions to sway simple minds away from the truth.
particles
solar wind
waves in the solar wind.
Solar Wind Plasma Analyser
interplanetary medium
solar atmospheric phenomena
convection
solar wind electrons
solar wind streams
thermal plasmas

(Merriam Webster) Definition of euphemism
: the substitution of an agreeable or inoffensive expression for one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant

"Solar Wind" is a mild and acceptable substitute for the harsh and unpleasant "electric current."
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby Cargo » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:48 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... ccess.html
NoScript On for that link but the only important part is:
When it comes to collecting data NASA's sun-sailing Parker Probe is on fire.

According to the agency, the Parker Solar Probe, which was sent out on its mission to orbit the Sun last year, just delivered a payload of data 50 percent larger than what scientists expected.

The transmission dropped 22 gigabytes of data from its two first encounters with the Sun says NASA.

'All of the expected science data collected through the first and second encounters is now on the ground,' said Nickalaus Pinkine, Parker Solar Probe mission operations manager at APL in a statement.

'As we learned more about operating in this environment and these orbits, the team did a great job of increasing data downloads of the information gathered by the spacecraft’s amazing instruments.'


The rest of the article is rubbish.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:28 pm

I can't help but believe that the mainstream will do everything in their power to *not* describe the electric fields, or discuss the electric field data from this probe directly. Instead I think they'll attempt to dumb everything down to magnetism to the best of their ability. Alas I think this program is going to be one of the most politically kludged and verbally "spun" programs of all time.
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby GaryN » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:11 pm

First Parker Solar Probe Science Data Released to Public
https://blogs.nasa.gov/parkersolarprobe/
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby Robertus Maximus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:57 pm

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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby BecomingTesla » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:52 am

Some really interesting notes from the one of those articles: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03665-3

They show that the solar wind near the Sun is much more structured and dynamic than it is at Earth (Fig. 1). Bale et al. present measurements of the direction and strength of the Sun’s magnetic field, which is dragged out into space by the solar wind. The authors find rapid reversals in the direction of the field that last for only minutes. Although some similar magnetic structures have been seen before, the large amplitude and the high occurrence rate of these reversals are surprising. In fact, the nature of these structures remains unknown.


Would these rapid reversals of in the direction of the field imply some form of alternating current moving through the solar wind? The present of the current would definitely lead to the implication of structure within the wind, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't alternation in field direction imply an alternation in the direction of the current?

Bale and colleagues also report that the PSP’s sensors detected fluctuations in the local electric and magnetic fields in the solar wind that are larger than those detected near Earth. These fluctuations can be generated by turbulence in the solar wind or by plasma instabilities that are driven by ions or electrons. The presence of such fluctuations suggests that plasma instabilities have a much larger effect on the dynamics and energetics of the solar wind than previously expected.


Are these not just exploding double-layers? It'll be really interesting to review some of the primary astrophysical textbooks like "An Introduction to Modern Astrophysics", once I can understand the math. I seriously wonder if astrophysical students in undergrad classes are even taught what double-layers are.

Kasper et al.4 present observations of the Sun’s plasma ions and electrons. They find that the reversals in the Sun’s magnetic field are often associated with localized enhancements in the radial component of the plasma velocity (the velocity in the direction away from the Sun’s centre). The authors use the extremely clear signal of the solar wind’s strahl — a collimated and fast beam of electrons that stream along the magnetic field — to study the field’s geometry and configuration


I kind of just see this as more evidence of current flow, honestly. If I understand Steinmetz' work correctly, the consumption of energy stored in the magnetic field (in particular, the capacitance current) leads to a production of energy into the dielectric field as radial lines of dielectric force (the strahl in the solar wind) when electrical power is sent from the generator to the load through the conductor (in this case, the plasma). If the reversal in the field is indicator of AC generation, then it makes sense that we're seeing increasing velocity in the radial component of the plasma, because dielectric lines of force always extend radially from the conductor. (Elementary Lectures on Electrical Discharges, Waves, and Impulses; and other Transients).

McComas et al.5 study detections of energetic ions and electrons, some of which are observed more often in the region just outside the corona than they are near Earth. These particles are accelerated by flares (eruptions of radiation) in the corona or by shock waves associated with coronal mass ejections (eruptions of plasma), which travel through interplanetary space. The authors identify particles corresponding to both types of source region.


These just seem like exploding double-layers to me. Feels pretty straight forward.

So far, it seems like the PSP is just returning really amazing results. And just like other in-situ satellite instruments in the past, seems like they're gonna vindicate more of Alfven's predictions about solar physics.
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby BecomingTesla » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:38 pm

Not trying to double-post, but in reference to my comment regarding undergraduate astrophysics majors, I did a little research: I checked out the required curriculum for any undergraduate who wants to receive a degree in astrophysics from the four top-ranked universities in the US: Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Columbia. Out of these four universities, only one requires their students to take any course regarding plasma physics, and that's Princeton. They require their students to take "Science of Nuclear Energy: Fusion and Fission", which has "Introduction to Plasma Physics" by Goldston and Rutherford as a required textbook: the book was published in '95, so it's 24 years old, and when I checked the index in the back there was no mention of double-layers in the list. So they're not mentioned in the book.

In regards to the astronomy/astrophysics-specific courses required by all four universities, none of them are focused on plasma physics. They're all introductory survey courses for astronomy, or related specifically to stellar/galactic/extra-galactic formation and dynamics. They feature the following textbooks: An Introduction to the Sun and Stars; An Introduction to Observational Astronomy; An Introduction to Galaxies and Cosmology; Intro to Cosmology; Cosmology - The Origin and Evolution of Cosmic Structures; Galaxy Formation; Physics Stellar and Intergalactic Medium; Stellar Structure and Evolution; An Introduction to Star Formation; Solar System Dynamics...

None of them mention double-layers in their index either.

So I officially don't consider it an exaggeration to say that no, undergraduate astrophysics students are not taught anything about plasma physics beyond the introductory material on electromagnetism and electrodynamics, and they are definitely not taught anything about double-layers. They don't seem to exist in any of the materials required by the universities.

Oh, and "An Introduction to Modern Astrophysics"? Yeah, no mention of double-layers either.

That s*** is crazy...
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Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:16 am

BecomingTesla wrote:N
None of them mention double-layers in their index either.


That's definitely quite sad, but not surprising actually. I think one would have to be pretty much entirely ignorant of Alfven's double layer model to hold belief in 'magnetic reconnection". According to Alfven, his double layer paper makes the whole MRx concept irrelevant and obsolete in all current carrying environments.
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