SAFIRE

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby The Great Dog » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:58 pm

I believe SAFIRE is gifted with an extensive budget. That instrumentality and the systems integration look like hundreds of thousands of dollars, alone. Salaries, facilities, utilities...they are at or near what public funding would provide. Don't forget, the Mainwarings are billionaire philanthropists. If only they would turn their attention to Eric Lerner, as well.

It makes sense that the "new" elements seen in the cathode crater are microscopic impurities, rather than elemental transmutation. After all, what alloy is 100% pure? And if you sputter the iron anode (as it appears they are doing), you will deposit the material on the cathode.

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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby The Great Dog » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:06 pm

The multiple double layers are, no doubt, manifestations of those same impurities from the sputtered anode. Different plasmas are isolating themselves from each other. Since different elements form plasmas with different characteristics, it seems logical and not so mysterious.

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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby seasmith » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:11 pm

The Great Dog wrote:The multiple double layers are, no doubt, manifestations of those same impurities from the sputtered anode. Different plasmas are isolating themselves from each other. Since different elements form plasmas with different characteristics, it seems logical and not so mysterious.

TGD


No, it's not mysterious when the root cause of electric double-layers are considered.
The SAFIRE group is very well acquainted with spectroscopy, and if the distinct envelopes were merely different element-plasmas, their spectrographs would indicate as much.

When concentric layered auras are seen surrounding a high intensity street lamp for example, are they caused by self-organizing plasmas from different elements ?
Or by more easily explained opto-electrical effects ?

The microscopic impurities in the craters are, as you say, quite likely just that; but some nano-scale transmutation can't be ruled out either at this time.
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby The Great Dog » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:27 am

Except that there is no indication in the video by Ben Ged Low that any optical spectra have been taken. In fact, there is a distinct impression that experiments along those lines have yet to be done. So, in the case of the iron anode, the chamber walls, the copper cathodes and materials like the titanium-alumina-tungsten Langmuir probes, it can't be ruled-out that they are the source(s) of the cellular discharges. Rather than seek the esoteric, such as elemental transmutation, it seems best to stick to the mundane before venturing too far afield.

Since double layers are nearly impossible in pure hydrogen, like the video presented, SAFIRE has to "dope" the plasma in order for them to form. Whether it is something taking place between the various plasmas creating some elements that were not initally present (esoteric), or unknown impurities are introduced when the anode and other strutures vaporize (mundane) remains to be seen. The mundane appears to be the best bet.
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:55 am

The Great Dog wrote:The multiple double layers are, no doubt, manifestations of those same impurities from the sputtered anode. Different plasmas are isolating themselves from each other. Since different elements form plasmas with different characteristics, it seems logical and not so mysterious.

TGD


FYI, I personally think that the sun works that way as well, with the elements arranged by atomic weight. I believe the corona is mostly hydrogen, the chromosphere is mostly helium, the photosphere is mostly neon. I also believe that there is a silicon plasma layer underneath of all those layers. Heliosiesmology studies suggest that the electrode surface is located about 4800KM under the surface of the photosphere.
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby seasmith » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:32 pm

TGD,
I agreed with your "best bet".
Transmutation of elements is hardly "esoteric", if a sun is the model. Otherwise how would hydrogen progress to helium ?

MM,
Gravity has to be a huge factor in the aural layerings around the sun, how does that apply to the SAFIRE setup ?

Either way, we are again back to 'root cause' of electric double-layers; and the charge staging and containment
that the experimenters do measure assiduously.
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby Webbman » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:40 pm

they should try a layered anode with an iron magnetic alloy core and a number of thin elemental layers of other increasingly lower atomic weight metals in that group.

iron/nickel/cobalt core
manganese layer
chromium layer
vanadium layer
titanium
scandium

basically the top row of the lanthanoids.
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby Cargo » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:02 am

Just wait until they get to the part where they simulate a comet-like object passing by the sun. I can't wait.
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby The Great Dog » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:27 pm

Since the issue was what is seen in the SAFIRE chamber, "esoteric" refers to that subject.
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby The Great Dog » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:35 pm

What should be a primary consideration, as well, is rotation. After all, the Sun isn't a static ball, it's spinning. Any rotating charged body creates a dipole electric field, which isn't manifested by the SAFIRE anode. That would introduce electrodynamics into the mix; something missing, right now.

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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:52 pm

seasmith wrote:MM,
Gravity has to be a huge factor in the aural layerings around the sun, how does that apply to the SAFIRE setup ?

Either way, we are again back to 'root cause' of electric double-layers; and the charge staging and containment
that the experimenters do measure assiduously.


I'm not sure what the net result would be with respect to SAFIRE since it lacks the gravitational factors that would apply to the sun. I suspect they'll need to introduce an internal electromagnet to get the full effect including features like coronal loops, polar jets, etc. I'd personally like to see them play with an cathode sphere as well at some point to test the full range of options that Birkeland experimented with.
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby The Great Dog » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:55 pm

There's normally no need to go on about things, but SAFIRE is different: there are so many confirmations of plasma physics ideas and the Electric Universe view of things that it bears close scrutiny.

Monty's video that showed the anode tufts floating above the surface of the iron sphere is a perfect example. There was virtually no discussion about them, except to report what was seen. Why the tufts levitate above the surface; why they start to move around when the power increases and then coalesce into larger, more densely packed structures is because of their plasma characteristics.

The plasmas are isolating themselves from each other and from the anode inside spherical forcefields. That's why they levitate, of course, and why they remain stationary at low power: their shells are strong and intact. When the power increases, their electromagnetic walls start to short-out in various places for fractions of a second. When that happens, they briefly lose their repulsion in those locations and attract each other for a split-second, until the forcefield is restored there a microsecond later. So, they start to move around like a bunch of bees.

As the power increases, the fields do coalesce into larger structures, just like soap bubbles on a dish of water. The convoluted formations are maximizing the distribution of electric charge. Finally, they short-out completely and the anode arcs to the cathode from a single, constricted filamentary channel, focusing the anode's electric charge flow into a plasma beam that erodes the cathode.

There's no discussion about this, anywhere, yet it seems to be a direct conclusion from what is known.

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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby The Great Dog » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:45 pm

Alternatively, upon reflection, the opposite might be happening. The bundles of hydrogen nuclei (protons) isolated in their spherical shells, might develop stronger magnetic bubbles as the current increases and push against each other with greater force. The same movements would occur because each magnetic bubble is virtually frictionless wrt the others. Instead of coalescing, they deform as they get stronger, since the electromagnetic shells must occupy the same space with greater flux density...like brain convolutions allow more surface area inside the skull.

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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby Webbman » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:48 pm

The Great Dog wrote:Alternatively, upon reflection, the opposite might be happening. The bundles of hydrogen nuclei (protons) isolated in their spherical shells, might develop stronger magnetic bubbles as the current increases and push against each other with greater force. The same movements would occur because each magnetic bubble is virtually frictionless wrt the others. Instead of coalescing, they deform as they get stronger, since the electromagnetic shells must occupy the same space with greater flux density...like brain convolutions allow more surface area inside the skull.

TGD


i think heat also plays a role here in addition to magnetism or specifically the disruption and reorganization of magnetism. The plasma is like the marker showing us the interaction.
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread postby AlwaysLrning » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:49 am

Michael Mozina wrote:Just in case the EU haters are too lazy to look up the video, here's last year's EU conference presentation of the SAFIRE experiments. SAFIRE is a very impressive, well organized, and highly professional science project. This is the way all experiments should be conducted. The Gimbal and the Langmuir probes are simply awesome. I love the engineering that has gone into SAFIRE.

https://www.youtubejoy.com/watch?v=-K_GBBspZjs

I sure hope that future versions of SAFIRE will have the ability to reverse the polarity. :)


Related to Transmutation of particles - http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/CirilloDtransmutat.pdf , this was back in 2004 and not created in a vacuum and using water for electrolysis. These are some of the same results SAFire project was seeing after the experiment using a SEM (Scanning electron microscope).
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