Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

[markspann]

Andreas,

I have now reviewed your slide presentation 4 or 5 times. You have managed to "channel" and distill Steinbacher's theory into a marvelously simple, brilliant graphic, information-dense presentation. I just finished re-reading Immanuel Velikovsky's WORLDS IN COLLISION section of the Great Comet Venus episode, and in doing so I heeded Steinbacher's admonition to imagine electrical plasma <enhanced aurora?> discharges in place of the "burning rivers and conflagrations of naptha", and I'lll be damned if it does not change entirely how I interpret the events Velikovsky relates from the ancient eyewitness accounts and histo-religious manuscripts. I had not read W.I.C. since I gained my "electric eyes", and now as I re-read these accounts, it becomes clear that much of what Dr. V took to be burning naptha (petroleum hydrocarbons) that rained down on the earth at the time, was likely writhing electric discharge currents snaking their way across the crust of the earth, running up-hill, up-canyon, and up-river, lithyfying the surrounding south facing slopes into rock, whilst the cosmic Thunderbolts blasted and melted the mountaintops into basalt and granite in Lichtenberg patterns. I can picture the oceans emptying themselves out completely over the continents as the earth became gripped in the EM field of the approaching planet/comet and wrenched from its nominal rotation and orbit , and the vast ocean waters vaulting themselves up into space as the electrical interactions between the Comet body and Earth cancelled out gravity and drew the waters of the ocean far up into space above the earth, and the Thunderbolt discharges between the two planets sending the waters crashing down upon the continents, scouring and carrying out the loose slurried cometary material from duned mountains and sedimented valley floors farout into the surrounding valleys and plains, creating the alluvial deposits that are ten's of thousands of feet thick all across the continental plains and continental shelves. I see it clearly happening in my minds eye now, and with Google Earth, I can see the evidence all over planet Earth. This is fascinating beyond words !

I need to finish the rest of WIC now, and I would urge anyone wanting to really wrap their minds around this theory to do so.

[Lloyd]

* The conflagrations of naptha occurred during the last Saturn flare-up 10,000 years ago (and during prior flare-ups) when Saturn expelled dust, petroleum, water etc, which rained down on all its satellites, including Earth. The conflagrations did occur, but not necessarily during the Saturn System breakup 4,500 years ago.
* Is there evidence that granite and basalt occur only on mountain tops? I don't think so. The bedrock in New Hampshire and Vermont seems to be nearly all granite, not just on mountain tops.
* I doubt that gravity was cancelled enough for ocean waters to go up into space. Animals would have gone up there too. Nothing would have survived. The floods occurred during Saturn flare-ups and during the Saturn System breakup. Here's a quote from http://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpBB3/v ... 827#p54827

Phase 2:
Numerous Saturn Flare-up cycles
Each cycle involved:
a) a Saturn Flare-up, similar to solar flares, but much more powerful; the flare-ups resulted from Saturn's plasmasphere encountering other stellar plasmaspheres, while moving from the Sagittarius Galaxy to the Milky Way;
b) a possible Rocky Planet/Satellite Ejection [possibly forming Earth, Mars, Mercury, & other Satellites, as many as one per cycle];
c) Deposition of Saturn Flare Dust, Petroleum, Water etc on Satellite Planets, i.e. on Mars, Earth, and other Saturn moons;
d) Melting of Earth’s Temperate Zone Glaciers and Filling of Oceans;
e) a Long Quiet Interim;
f) New Saturn Disk Formation, Resumption of Saturn's Bipolar Jets & New Glacier Formation on Earth.
g) Temperate Zone Glaciation occurred, again removing most of the water from the Oceans [the Bipolar Jets, also called the Polar Column, removed some of the ocean waters.]

[starbiter]

* The conflagrations of naptha occurred during the last Saturn flare-up 10,000 years ago (and during prior flare-ups) when Saturn expelled dust, petroleum, water etc, which rained down on all its satellites, including Earth. The conflagrations did occur, but not necessarily during the Saturn System breakup 4,500 years ago.
* Is there evidence that granite and basalt occur only on mountain tops? I don't think so. The bedrock in New Hampshire and Vermont seems to be nearly all granite, not just on mountain tops.
* I doubt that gravity was cancelled enough for ocean waters to go up into space. Animals would have gone up there too. Nothing would have survived. The floods occurred during Saturn flare-ups and during the Saturn System breakup. Here's a quote from http://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpBB3/v ... 827#p54827

Phase 2:
Numerous Saturn Flare-up cycles
Each cycle involved:
a) a Saturn Flare-up, similar to solar flares, but much more powerful; the flare-ups resulted from Saturn's plasmasphere encountering other stellar plasmaspheres, while moving from the Sagittarius Galaxy to the Milky Way;
b) a possible Rocky Planet/Satellite Ejection [possibly forming Earth, Mars, Mercury, & other Satellites, as many as one per cycle];
c) Deposition of Saturn Flare Dust, Petroleum, Water etc on Satellite Planets, i.e. on Mars, Earth, and other Saturn moons;
d) Melting of Earth’s Temperate Zone Glaciers and Filling of Oceans;
e) a Long Quiet Interim;
f) New Saturn Disk Formation, Resumption of Saturn's Bipolar Jets & New Glacier Formation on Earth.
g) Temperate Zone Glaciation occurred, again removing most of the water from the Oceans [the Bipolar Jets, also called the Polar Column, removed some of the ocean waters.]

Hello Lloyd: I believe your comment on Sagittarius came from a misunderstanding of Dwardu's work. No harm, no foul.

My most pleasant surprise from the NPA conference was an embrace of Venus as an electrical comet by many EU insiders. Dr Velikovsky was right. No dates were discussed. This was not unanimous. But it was a majority of the folks i spoke with.

When i read descriptions from the survivors of this encounter on the pages of Worlds in Collision it seems like i'm there. The River of Fire is now a plasma event. The dust would be affected by the plasma. Rocks would likely be produced. The survivors also describe less gravity during the electrical events.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21746049/Veli ... -Collision

[...] page 53

'It is true that it is stated "the mountains melted . . . even that Sinai," * but this melting of
summits does not necessarily mean an opening up of craters. Rocks turned into a flowing mass.
The plateau of the Sinai Peninsula is covered with formations of basalt lava; 5 wide stretches of
the Arabian Desert also glisten with lava.6 Lava formations, interspersed with extinguished
volcanoes, stretch from the vicinity of Palmyra southward into Arabia as far as Mecca.7 Only a
few thousand years ago the deserts glowed with the beacons of many volcanoes, mountains
melted, and lava flowed over the ground from numerous Assures.
-The celestial body that the great Architect of nature sent close to the earth, made contact with it
in electrical discharges, retreated, and approached again. If we are to believe the Scriptural data,
there elapsed seven weeks, or by another computation, about two months 8 from the day of the
Exodus to the day of the revelation at Mount Sinai.
**There were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the
trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.... And mount
Sinai was altogether on a smoke . . . and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace,
and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and
waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice." 9

The Talmud and Midrashim describe the Mountain of the Law-giving as quaking so greatly that
it appeared as if it were lifted up and shaken above the heads of the people; and the people felt as
it they were no longer standing securely on the ground, but were held up by some invisible
force.10 The presence of a heavenly body overhead caused this phenomenon and this feeling.
"Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken,
because he was wroth.... He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under
his feet. ... At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of
fire. The Lord also thundered in the heavens . . . hail stones and coals of fire.... He shot out
lightnings.... Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were
discovered."

Me again,
Dr V didn't realize the electrical nature of The River of Fire. He thought basalt had to be volcanic. Plasma physics has advanced, thanks to Dr V. When You read about less gravity and the waters rising during the events it brings to mind Mark Spann's experience with an electric tornado. When Mark mentioned weightlessness to an EU insider durind NPA, the insider explained why this might happen. I was thrilled to be a fly on the wall.

It was probably best to be in a cave during these events. The filamentary nature of plasma would make for death to some, and life for others close by. Apparently everyone didn't die. But most did according to the survivors.

As Mark suggested, re-reading WiC with plasma as the river of fire changes everything.

I would expect volcanic activity while external electric melting was taking place. I believe volcanoes are also electric. But a great deal of basalt that i see seems to have been produced in situ, not from a flow.

michael steinbacher

[Lloyd]

What's the Misunderstanding?
* Michael, what exactly of Dwardu's work do you mean that I misunderstand? It's not clear in your message above.
Tornadoes Removed Oceans?
* I can understand tornadoes lifting up water etc, but I don't know that they could be large enough to remove much ocean water from the ocean basins. I'm pretty sure Dwardu said it was glaciation that gradually removed ocean waters during Saturn's Dark Age, before it entered the Solar System about 10,000 years ago.
Rivers of Plasma?
* What is meant by rivers of plasma? Isn't volcanic lava initially plasma, like the Moho layer?
* And can you point out anywhere on Earth that granite or basalt are only surface features, not connected to underground granite or basalt? Have you asked Kim or other geologists about that? I haven't heard of that myself as yet. Flood basalts occur in several places and I think they connect to underground basalts, which erupted and flooded the land [during cataclysms]. In fact I remember that Velikovsky discussed flood basalts, probably in Earth in Upheaval.
Rock Strata Info?
* Do you know where to find thorough maps of rock strata in geologic cross-sections? I've found cross-sections for some states and countries, but not any entire continents, or the entire globe. (I went to Google Images and searched for 2 words, the place and the word crosssection as one word. The fewer words used in image searches, the better.) It seems that such a map would tell us a lot. Most of the continents consist of sedimentary rock in the top 2 miles or so and under that is usually granite, I think. The ocean floors are mostly basalt, as I understand.
* I just did a search for Arabia crosssection and got a good image from this site: http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpresseboo ... view=print. It has an image of a cross-section of a granite plume or something of the kind I suggest above, not of a mere surface feature. The image caption says: Schematic cross-section of the composite, subcaldera pluton that makes up the Uyaijah ring structure in Saudi Arabia.
- Here's the image.
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpresseboo ... _00117.jpg

* Try an image search yourself, if you like, such as for basalt crosssection etc.

[starbiter]

Hello Lloyd: You said,
[...]
a) a Saturn Flare-up, similar to solar flares, but much more powerful; the flare-ups resulted from Saturn's plasmasphere encountering other stellar plasmaspheres, while moving from the Sagittarius Galaxy to the Milky Way;

Me again,
Apparently it was the Dwarf Sagittarius galaxy that is part of the Milky Way. Not a separate galaxy.

The link below shows what i interpret as external granite.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qhX ... t?hl=en_US

I don't think in terms of one electrical event causing Earth's geology. Things transpired before the events with Venus. It might have involved wind, dust, and electricity. Mountain tops were said to be islands after The Great Flood of Noah. These would be the seeds for new mountains during the events covered in Worlds in Collision.

According to geologists i've meet the massive pluton that makes up the Sierra Nevada in CA is sitting on top of sediment. It seems unlikely that all that magma would leave sediment beneath it. By your model there should be a root of granite, not sediment.

According to Forbidden Archeology there are modern human bones under granite formations. Also toys, tools, and weapons. They find these objects will tunneling for minerals.

Once materials get hot enough they become plasma. So as rock becomes molten it would pass a current to deeper layers. This could account for deep granite formations. Similar to the way You described basalt conducting electricity, put from a surface event.


A link for my NPA paper is below. It covers much of this material.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... 3&hl=en_US

michael

[Lloyd]

* Hi Michael.
Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy
* You mention the wrong error that I made. The Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy is not part of the Milky Way, although it's being partially devoured by the Milky Way. Here's an image of both galaxies.
http://spacefellowship.com/wp-content/u ... 10x458.jpg

* The caption says: This illustration shows the visible Milky Way galaxy (blue spiral) and the streams of stars represent the tidally shredded Sagittarius dwarf galaxy. Credit: UCLA.
* That's likely wrong in saying "tidally shredded". It's likely magnetically shredded.
Proto-Saturn's Plasma Cells
* What I was wrong about was saying that Saturn's flare-ups were caused by its plasmasphere encountering other stellar plasmaspheres. Dwardu corrected me on that and said it was likely from Saturn moving through Alfven's plasma cells of differing electrical potential and or from intrinsic properties of brown dwarf stars, which Saturn was.
Sierra Nevada Granite
* As for granite atop sedimentary rock, I suppose that would be possible according to Juergens, who said in a footnote to one of his articles that he thought granite was sedimentary rock that suffered electrical breakdown. It seems that would mean a single rock stratum could be partly sedimentary and partly granite where the stratum broke down electrically. But of course we know now that strata likely form several to many at a time, so it would be more likely to find several strata that are partly sedimentary and partly granite. Now we need to ask Kim or someone if that happens.
* I found some cross-sections of the Sierra Nevada. This one is easiest for me to understand.
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/projects/geoweb ... alXSec.jpg

* I assume that the folded strata in the center are sedimentary, while the purple is labeled granite on both sides. Maybe this is a case where strata are partly sedimentary and partly granite. We need a close look to see if that's a possibility.
* This might be the location on a map where those strata can be found, just left or west of Deep Springs Valley, marked with letter A on the map below.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Deep+Spri ... A&t=h&z=11
* Assuming the map has the right location, who wants to go there and have a close look? Or can we find close enough views on the internet?
* According to Cardona, the electrical breakdown of sedimentary rock would likely have occurred during Saturn flare-ups, when Earth's rotation was stopped briefly by the flares and continental drift caused mountain folding to occur.

[starbiter]

Hello Lloyd: If Venus was an electrical comet as described in WiC, the events described would cover what came before. When Dwardu publishes his book about comet Venus some time in the future we will know his position. For now i and others are using WiC as a clue for understanding what was left on the surface of the our planet during the electrical comet Venus events, and to a lesser degree the electrical events with Mars.

The area in the valley in the graphic You posted would be slurry runoff over obstacles, creating synclines and anticlines. The entire valley would have been submerged. Otherwise there would have been duning. No folding required. I know the area well. It's terribly charred.

The Sierra seem to have been zapped to a tremendous depth. The zapping could have been continuous during the duning process, episodic, or at the end of the process. It's hard to know for sure. The aurora seems to like the area. It flows down the coast. Maybe a factor. Maybe not.

michael

The first graphic in your last post doesn't work for me.

[starbiter]

I might have a little time on my hands. My car is in Mexico and might not survive the trip North. If anyone has a vehicle and would like to see rocks in the western US, please let me know.

michael

[larryduane100]

starbiter wrote:If there is an EU conference in Las Vegas this December would there be any interest in a geology tour of the area a week prior to the conference.

Count me in, too.
Larry White

[seasmith]

i just spent 2 months trekking S. Utah, would that area be in the itinerary ?

[Mike, have you ever cruised the 'dunes'; of UT's "Basin and Range" border with Nevada ? ]

[starbiter]

i just spent 2 months trekking S. Utah, would that area be in the itinerary ?

[Mike, have you ever cruised the 'dunes'; of UT's "Basin and Range" border with Nevada ? ]

Hello Seasmith: I've been to the Pink Dunes in southern UT.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=37 ... 4&t=h&z=13

Spent time around Snow Canyon West of St George. Sounds like You were West of there. I've covered much of UT, but know Cedar City best.

Can You see the process of duning and slurry runoff when You Trek?

The geology tour is a work in progress. It will probably last 10 to 14 days, with people coming and going. A few days in Vegas [Death Valley] and Palm Springs each. It took me 6 months in each place to learn where to go. Three days will allow observation of many obvious examples of the process. Weather in Winter will be a factor. The low country of southern UT is possible in Winter, sometimes.

Wrong turns followed have served me well. I hope that spirit can be maintained.


michael

[seasmith]

Amelia Island, FL


starbiter,

Wrongturn is my middle name…

The Basin and Range province of UT is part of the Great Basin, which encompasses most of Nevada and N.W. central USA. Interestingly, (derived from fossil topographies) it came into being about 65mya, coincident with the putative “great extinction”.
What I found interesting about the area was its conglomeration of “basins” (rift/faulting), ranges (orogeny), and rampant volcanism.
[sidenote: there’s a great little geology museum with a well-seasoned geologist/curator in Delta, UT].


The great basin, as a whole, is a relic of an old endorheic watershed that itself is an artifact (imo) of cyclic waves of compression and rarefactions upon the land from the great Pacific drumwell/wavguide.
But whatever its origin, it comprises maybe a fifth of the N.A. continental shield, so is worth a glance.

Cedar City became my default rendevous as well, due to late June snowstorms and never-opening mountain passes; which was fine as it is a natural gateway between the GB province to the n.w. and the stunningly revelatory Cedar Breaks (where the earth has broken) & the eastern Kolob and Kanab Plateaus, which proffer the equally remarkable Zion and Bryce National Monuments.

“Duning and slurry” ? Everywhere, tho slurry greatly predominates on the fringes of any high lands. Water (and hydrothermal) procession, over time, is monumental and undeniable in the geologic panorama.
Especially in the vivid higher and dryer landscapes.

s

[seasmith]

Late edit:

That was meant to be central NW USA in the first paragraph above, not NW central

s

[atherophage]

The geology tour is a work in progress. It will probably last 10 to 14 days, with people coming and going. A few days in Vegas [Death Valley] and Palm Springs each. It took me 6 months in each place to learn where to go.

michael[/quote]

--
Perhaps a self-guided tour of these slurry run-off sites (and the like) could be created using a map maker program such as those supplied with GPS units - or even google maps. Way points - points of interest - could be plotted along with perhaps fuel stops and campgrounds. This file could be simply uploaded to a GPS unit or even merely printed.
I'm not at all familiar with the area. I can imagine it would make a fantastic motorbike trip.
---
ath

[seasmith]

Nevada is almost entirely within the Great Basin, the heart of the Basin and Range province of North America. (more below)

http://geology.about.com/od/maps/ig/sta ... geomap.htm

http://www.digiwis.com/dwi_ugis.htm