Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

[starbiter]

The Sutter Butte photographs are now available on the post from the Fri the 25th.

[starbiter]

The patent presented below is from Nikola Tesla. It describes something similar to Moshe's [Moses] bronze Fire Serpent statue. Of course a bronze pole would be required for ground. How could they have guessed this?

http://www.google.com/patents?id=w05AAA ... &q&f=false

There is a summary at the end. Sorry i can't cut and paste.

michael

[starbiter]

The post of Feb 26, page 42, had broken google map links due to cut and paste problems. Nick C has kindly fixed them.

The point is, the Brandberg massif below,

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 9&t=p&z=10

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 9&t=h&z=10

is a 40 mile wide remnant of a lightning strike. The round NE feature was attractive, probably pulling in dust from the air. The SW feature was repulsive creating a crater. The two round objects would be the two points of a Birkeland Current.

The image below is from Sinai.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 5&t=h&z=17

This remnant is only 1,000 ft wide. The ejecta from both SW craters seems to have been pulled to the North.

michael

[starbiter]

On the wasting oil thread Lloyd asked this question referring to my position that much Earth oil is from comet Venus.

Lloyd,
[...]

* That was Velikovsky's surmise, but his ideas weren't as well researched as Cardona's et al. They find that petroleum, water and a lot of Earth's rock strata etc came from Saturn flare-ups every few thousand years, when Saturn and Earth were enroute from the Sagittarius galaxy to the Solar System. See the Cardona interview at http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... =10&t=3824.

Me again,
Hello Lloyd: It's my understanding Dwardu has not completed his book concerning the events described in Worlds in Collision.

And as You know, Velikovsky and Rockenbach proposed a Saturnian System before Cardona. Cardona and Talbott disagreed with Dr V over the polar configuration.

My impression of Dr Velikovsky's scenario goes something like this. The breakup of the Saturnian system was messy. But the further back in time you go, the details become less clear. During the breakup there was a flood. The water was from a cloud of hydrogen, caused by a nova between Saturn and Jupiter. The hydrogen combined with oxygen in Earth'e atmosphere. Oxygen levels on Earth were reduced, and the oceans rose dramatically. Much previously dry land was submerged. Mountain tops became the only dry land. It was a hard time on Earth for the people.

Many years later there was a electromagnetic surge. I don't know the cause, but it apparently caused people to suffer amnesia. This event was referred to as the tower of babble. The event, if it were to happen today might be problematic for ALL unshielded printed circuits on the planet. Or not.

Then came the events described in Worlds in Collision. The atmosphere was choked with dust from the coma of comet Venus. A west wind blew the material eastward. The dust blew across the oceans. Without anything to disrupt the wind over the oceans, the material became more concentrated. When the dust encountered the islands poking above the ocean level, the interruption in wind caused the dust to come out of suspension. The dust landed downwind of the islands. The water surrounding the islands was filled in and became dry. The new dry land started to accumulate material in a duning process. Because this process was wet, [incessant rains and sloshing of oceans] much of the material was washed away from the growing dunes, filling in the surrounding water to a great depth. The sediment is 18,000 feet deep where i'm staying. Electrical activity also might have concentrated the dust. Auroral activity seems predisposed to the coasts where the duning was extreme. The electromagnetic effects might have attracted the dust while in the air, compressing the material into rocks. One side of plasma filaments [Birkeland current] might have attracted feldspar, the other quartz. This might be a recipe for granite formation.

Now to the oil question. During the events attributed to Venus, Naptha [oil] was reported to have rained down for days. People drowned in the stuff. On dry land the oil would accumulated in low areas, mixing with dirt, forming mud. It's my position that this mud was converted electrically to shale. The USA has trillions of barrels of oil and gas trapped in impermeable shale.

The oil that landed on the water might have floated. The winds, first from the West, followed by easterlies would push the surface oil to collection points. The West coast of the Americas seems to be one of the collection points. The LA basin was covered with oil wells in the 30s and 40s. They still extract oil today, but the wells are hidden. In some cases the oil became entrapped in dolomite. This is important because dolomite is best explained as the result of comet dust. NASA has found dolomite in comet dust. Chemists claim dolomite would not result from limestone being infused with magnesium, as geologists claim.

The uppermost layers of shale and dolomite containing many trillions of barrels of oil, and trillions of cubic feet of gas, would probably be best explained as comet Venus oil, IMO. Much of this oil and gas is relatively close to the surface. In Pennsylvania the shale is about a mile deep. The material above the shale would be dust and rocks from comet Venus. Saudi oil is said to be about 1500 meters deep [about a mile].

There are deeper layers of oil shale that could be from the beginning of the Venus encounter, or the result of earlier events not associated with Venus.

If Dr Velikovsky is wrong about Venus as the source of the upper layers of oil, it's not a big deal. If the descriptions in WiC referring to oil raining from above are actually referring to events with Mars during the breakup of the Saturnian system, so be it. As i have said, the dates and agent are not important. What is important , IMO, are the descriptions of events from the survivors as described in WiC.

When i started my travels in the western USA 3 years ago i had lost some confidence in Dr V. I was told by many EU insiders that EU had moved on, beyond Dr Velikovsky. I was looking for plasma effects. But the more i delve into the details, the more i'm embarrassed for doubting Dr V. I had little faith. What Velikovsky wrote in WiC, fits what's in the mountains and deserts like a glove. Or to a T. [written for the amusement of Anaconda]

If this scenario is correct, any material above the top shale and dolomite formations would be from the events of comet Venus or object X, as described in WiC . To find material from prior events, you'd have to look below the dolomite and shale, and the mile of material that covers it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21746049/Veli ... -Collision

Please see the chapter on Naptha. Page 30 in the Scribd box at the bottom of the viewer. Page 53 of Wic.

michael steinbacher

[starbiter]

On the wasting oil thread Lloyd said,

[...]
* Michael, here's a brief response.
* Venus is extremely hot because it's probably a young planet, ejected from Saturn or Jupiter between 6 and 10 millennia ago. The ancients claimed that Venus was a new planet. Venus appeared as a comet immediately after its ejection. It circled Saturn for some time and formed a circle of smoke and dust around Saturn. Venus was described as a snake which formed a circle by biting its own tail, the Ouroboros. After some centuries Venus moved to the center of the face of Saturn, closer than Mars, in the polar configuration. It left its tail, the ring of dust, behind, which eventually probably dissipated. About 4,500 years ago as the Saturn System reached the asteroid belt, the system became too unstable and broke up. In the process, Mars and or Venus may have come close to Earth, but they would no longer have had a great trail of debris following them.
* Saturn had its last flare about 10,000 years ago before Venus was formed. The Saturn flares, which occurred every few thousand years, ejected debris in all directions, which rained down on its satellites, including Mars and Earth, but not on Venus, which didn't yet exist. The debris included petroleum, water, rock dust etc separated somewhat into waves by specific gravity. Venus and Mars did not have means to eject such debris, like Saturn did, although electric discharges did likely remove rock from Mars to form the canyon, Vallis Marineris, and some of the rock went into orbit and some landed on Earth.
* You ideas about how shale oil formed etc are good, but need to be attributed to Saturn's flares, instead of Venus' tail, because the tail is not likely to have ever come close to Earth, as it dissipated near Saturn.

me again,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Lloyd. We disagree. I believe your scenario is close to the view of Dwardu. You seem to be declaring this scenario the winner, and it might be. But there are other options. Sweeney, Rose, Ginenthal, and Heinshon make a strong case for the Velikovsky scenario, but they shorten the time frame more than Dr Velikovsky. Ginenthal even debated Dwardu i've been told. My source claims Ginenthal didn't embarrass himself. If Dr Velikovsky were alive today, i think he might be able to defend his position. He was quite good at that. I'd like to think that his position might have changed over the years.

But the chronology and agent doesn't matter. If your scenario produced the descriptions in Worlds in Collision, what i propose about the surface of Earth would still follow.

A friend told me Dr Velikovsky would probably not appreciate my work. He had a habit of referring to critics with the city where they were residing. My friend thought i'd be Palm Springs. I'd like to think my friend is wrong, but he's a LOT smarter than i, unfortunately.

I wonder if Dr V might have been able to see the "river of fire" as plasma [enhanced aurora or plasmoid], instead of naptha. It is this difference which makes the overthrow of metamorphic geology possible. Plasma explains rock creation much better than gravity. Plasma has heat to melt rock. It also has the Bennett Pinch to reconcile the required pressures for rock and gem formation.

michael steinbacher

[starbiter]

Elton on the Grand Canyon thread asked about the formation of the canyon.

[...]

Looking at Symbols of an Alien Sky, there is suggestion that the Grand Canyon was carved by a Cosmic Thunderbolt. When this happened, I cannot say. After looking at the Satellite photo, there is no way the mighty colorado could carve such a beautiful canyon, as the whole canyon itself does not match that of a riverine canyon.

I was wondering about the goosenecks and Canyonlands national park, where the Green River meets the Colorado. They have much of the same relief patterns as the Grand Canyon. Were they too, carved by a cosmic thunderbolt?



me again,


The link below shows the area.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 09&t=p&z=7

The way i see it, the areas that are dark green were above the waterline, during the time of thick dust and wind. The light green areas were submerged. Dust and water drained out of the mountain/dunes filling in the basin. When the water level receded a huge flood developed. The canyons are the result of the flood waters riping through the fresh soft dirt. Later an electrical event [plasma] flowed over the mountains and through the canyons. The survivors around the world described it as a river of fire, or fire serpents. The plasma melted the different materials to varying degrees, causing rock to form. This is my vision of the process. This vision upsets some EU folks. They feel the canyon is the result of a thunderbolt as You stated. I never expected to have my own model, but that's how it looks to me.

michael

.

[starbiter]

Below is a link to an abstract which describes a paper i'm attempting to write. So far everything i've written sucks.

People who i explained my ideas to in person say the abstract helped them understand. That's logical because the abstract is heavily edited.

http://www.worldsci.org/php/index.php?t ... ay&id=6151

michael

[starbiter]

The image below is from Telluride CO. I posted this much earlier, but the file was small, and i was still learning. I'm still learning.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B-GyNP ... y=CNjJwboP

The bottom of the formation seems to be slurry runoff. The layers are horizontal. Above the horizontal layers are what appears to be a dune. The water draining out of the mountains may have undercut the formation, removing the side of the of the formation for convenient viewing.

I'm looking NE at the formation in the map below. Zoom out for perspective.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 1&t=p&z=15

michael

[starbiter]

The link below is for a paper i will present at the upcoming NPA conference. It's a brief overview of a recent, catastrophic, geology model.

http://www.worldsci.org/pdf/abstracts/a ... s_6151.pdf

michael

Any feedback would be appreciated, pro or con.

[starbiter]

The footnote links for the geology paper aren't active when you use the link from the last post. I can email with an attachment that will work, while the problem is fixed.

steinbac@ix.netcom.com

michael

[starbiter]

The link below is an improved version of my NPA paper. And the footnote links should work.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qn6 ... edit?hl=en#

michael

[Sparky]

Michael,

Now to the oil question. During the events attributed to Venus, Naptha [oil] was reported to have rained down for days. People drowned in the stuff.

Have you seen translations that seem to indicate that, or are you going on someone's conclusion? There is some argument that dr V did not translate correctly. Have you concluded that his translations are close enough?

thanks

[starbiter]

Hello Sparky: I think there is agreement with a majority of the EU folks that it rained Naphtha for an extended time. As always, see Worlds in Collision, the Venus section, chapter 2, Naphtha.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21746049/Veli ... -Collision



The Naphtha is primarily located today within dolomite, or oil shale. Both of those locations are explainable with the presence of a comet in the neighborhood. The dolomite is best explained as comet dust [please see my NPA paper].

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-91 ... edit?hl=en#
There's still a problem with the footnote links, but the photographs are displayed.



The oil shale is best explained as oily mud that was electrically converted to impermeable rock. The tar sands of Canada would be oily mud that wasn't zapped. It was probably covered with a couple of miles of ice.

I find it interesting that the abiotic proponents rarely if ever discuss this. It seems to me that an abiotic model requires a long time frame, something close to the uniformitarianism model. My position is that the oil in dolomite, shale, and sand is less than 5 thousand years old. That would mean that most of the easy to reach oil that has been used for the last 100 + years is the result of our dance with Venus.


michael

[kiwi]

Hi Michael,.. really enjoying this thread, finally got around to checking it out,... not sure if you have this doc. and probably ,if not , you have it covered from other sources ... but here it is anyway, and cheers great read, I consider myself an ardent V fan but dont have as much geo knowledge as you by a long shot,... learnng heaps here

http://www.rae.org/contents_tud.html

[starbiter]

Thanks for the link and kind words Kiwi. There are similarities and differences between creationism and the model i propose. Most creationists i've meet believe the Earth is young. I don't know the age of the Earth. I believe the surface of the Earth is less than 5,000 years old. Most creationists i've meet look to the flood of Noah as the agent of change for the surface of our planet. I believe in the flood of Noah. The level of the oceans rose dramatically, covering much of the land. The tops of mountains became islands. This is the model put forward by Dr. Velikovsky.

With few exceptions, the creationists i've meet completely ignore Exodus. Dr von Fang from the link You provided mentions Velikovsky, but not Exodus. The creationists books i've seen are flood centric. I'm trying to reach out to creationists to listen to Exodus. It is a part of the Torah.

The islands protruding above the ocean following the great flood were the seeds for duning. I see the West coast of the Americas as a string of islands prior to Exodus. Something like the map below.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 09&t=h&z=7

Then extraterrestrial dust was accumulated in a snow fence process. The dune/mountains grew quickly. But the water surrounding the dunes actually filled in faster than the dunes grew. The depth of the sediment in the valleys is deeper than the height of the mountains surrounding the valleys. The sediment flowing from the mountains as slurry runoff seems to have created the continental shelves. Google Earth is good for viewing the shelves because the cursor will show the depth of the water at the page bottom. You can see that Palos Verdes, SW of Los Angeles, prevented the flow. Palos Verdes is 1500 feet high. The slurry ran around it. The link below shows this.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 4&t=h&z=11



If there are creationists who do consider Exodus, lets talk. Most creationists consider God/Yahweh to be responsible for everything. I look to unbroken Birkeland Currents that travel from one end of the Universe to the other. Wal Thornhill claims we're connected to these currents, and they will provide answers to sincere questions. The two camps have much in common.


What the Earth looked like prior to the flood is difficult to have any confidence in. The mountains rising above the oceans were mountain tops after all. These would be the roots of the larger mountains to come. But the original mountain would be difficult to find. The tools, weapons,and toys mentioned in the link you provided would be a good place to look for the beginning of the process. Of course, from the surface these locations aren't visible. You need a tunnel or well to access them.

rambling michael