Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Solar,
Thanks for the Faulkner update. One thing you can always say about Egyptian texts is that they are as clear as mud. Either the translators don't understand the hieroglyphs anywhere as near as well as they think they do, or the Egyptians thought in a different way than anyone else on the planet has ever done.
I agree with your assessment of the passage. There may well be microcosmic cycles, the Indians certainly think that way. Cycles within cycles; wheels within wheels and all that.

Not quite sure what is going on with the Atum/serpent, Osiris, Horus thing but it is significant in that it is something to do with Man.

Do you know if Schwaller ever wrote anything on the Book of the Dead? Also do you know of anybody other than John Anthony West who is carrying on Schwaller's work? I know his daughter has written some stuff.

[kevin]

Grey cloud,
Whenever I am in London or Oxford, I try to visit the museums to look at the ancient relics, I do not read what others have ASSUMED to be their meanings.
We have been TOLD that until recently mankind has not had certain knowledge/s, which is what this thread is about finding.
We need to take out of our heads the massive amount of wrong information, then perhaps we can re-look at what is left.

We react similer to computers , always trying to adhere to the software we are downloaded with, desperate to defend, even kill to defend what we believe to be true and correct.
Basically thats why we are relagated down here into a mad ideas section, which thankfully exists.

When viewing the relics, I do so with the fabulous knowledge gained from upstairs here, with the realisation that we do exist in a system very very different to what we have been TOLD.
I am trying to think of the Dylan song that includes
TIME is an ocean, and it ends at the shore" OH Sister.
Will find it, and post here, I think we are stood on the shore, and it will have two opposite directions, like Blackpool beach and Bridlington beach.
Kevin

[mague]

The events described in the Voluspa are very similar in tone to those described in the Indian accounts of Kali Yuga. There are lots of other things going on in there but I feel that this is describing Earthly catastrophe at the end of a cycle, i.e. a change of seasons in the Great or Platonic Year.

Hello Grey Cloud,

you are not alone. Many others see a volcanic eruption. The Fimbulwinter hints to something that distributed dust into the atmosphere.

Other versions and tales might show events on a planetary or even solarsystem scale. Im am living on what once was alemannic land and a few things survived. Not many though. One story is that the old sun gave birth to her daughter before she died. Her daughter took over her mothers heritage and followed her path.
The battle of Donar (Thor) is an electric event. Donner is still the word for thunder over here. It is what the EU describes. Two bodys come close and exchange charge due to a different potential. Donar and the snake have met earlier, but Ragnarok was the final showdown. The serpent was a body with a poisonous tail while the wolf was a body with a burning tail. Wodan (Odin) is wind and air and the wolf killed wodan. Like something is using up all oxigene.
They both, the snake and the wolf cause the flood and fire falling form the sky.

[mague]

People have become rebellious. Atum said he will destroy all he made and return the earth to the Primordial Water which was its original state. Atum will remain, in the form of a serpent, with Osiris." Faulkner, Raymond (transl.). The Egyptian Book of the Dead, The Book of Going Forth by Day

(I'm assuming that you have cut n pasted this rather than typed it).
To me this is nothing to do with catastrophe, although I will check out the text preceding this to get some sort of context. I'll try to do this tomorrow but if you could give a hint as to whereabouts in the book it is to be found I would be grateful. Taking the quote 'as is', note the phrase 'Primordial Water'. Primordial water has little to do with H2O, it is in fact Nu. It is not saying that Atum is going to flood the planet but that Atum is going to un-create the Earth, i.e. the physical world will be no more. Also interesting, though off-topic is the comment about Atum remaing as a serpent and having Osiris with him.

It is maybe a bit far fetched, but water is a symbol for consciousness. The ocean is the pool of consciousness containing the potential to all knowledge/experience. The drop that leaves the ocean, travels the sky in a cloud and then falls back as rain and then flows back as river to the ocean, is on the journey of the consciousness from potential to knowledge. And by returning to the ocean it is enriching the ocean. Like the tree that is taking water and matter from the ground to grow leaves. The leaves "learn" sunlight and later drop dead to the ground. The dead leaves are tunring to soil but bring the knowledge of sunlight to it.

The mayas talk about 4 desasters. One of them was that the humans where turned into monkeys. It is describing how collective consciousness and knowledge is destroyed by a catastrophe. It is beliefed that a global atomic war would push mankind back to the stoneage.

So maybe Atum wanted to delete all gained knowledge. Humans have been rebellious and he wanted to "reset" them to square 0 by "bombing" them back into the stoneage ?

The problem with the egyptians and a lot other cultures is, that the western world differs outer from inner world. For many other cultures they are one and the same. A more "naive" person has no problem to talk to the sun *and* listen to her answer. I think it is hard to read old texts and undertsand them with a splitted mind. Because many of them have been wittten with a merged mind.

[mague]

They both, the snake and the wolf cause the flood and fire falling form the sky.

I need to quote myself because i cant edit anymore.

My theory is that the sun is powered by electric currencies from the EU. At some point in history the polarity of the currencies reversed. Even if it takes only a fraction of a nanosecond, the sun stops for a moment and then starts to shine again. The short moment is enough to break the worldtree (axis) and to allow the two wild ones in suns orbit to escape. Both pass earth so close that it was possible to hear their sounds. A sizzling and a howling one. Ice melts, falling debris causes tsunamis and the two close bodies cause multiple floods. The heat is vaporising huge amounts of water and additionally to the waves and tsunamis it starts to rain. The sky is clouded by vapor and dust and causing a perma winter.
The electric chage of earth destroys the snake, the wolf is burning lots of oxigene and growing by doing so. At some point the pull of the air is strong enough to cut a huge piece out of the wolf - Odins son Vidar ripped off the upper jaw of the wolf to avenge his father.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Kevin,
You wrote:

We have been TOLD that until recently mankind has not had certain knowledge/s, which is what this thread is about finding.
We need to take out of our heads the massive amount of wrong information, then perhaps we can re-look at what is left.

That, in a nutshell, is my intention for this thread.
For 35 years or so I have read books, books and more books. I have read more books than anyone else I have ever known and I can read faster than anyone else I have ever known. For the 5 years or so I have been reading (almost) only ancient texts. This is because I have come to the conclusion that virtually nothing new worth knowing has been written in the last 1500-2000 years. Or, put another way, I have gone back to the ancient texts in an attempt to throw off the accumulated baggage of the last 1500-2000 years (or my 51 years).
One of the reasons I enjoy your D & L thread is because you regularly come up with things, via your abilities, which I see in these ancient texts. Blows me away I can tell you.

The Dylan song is Oh Sister from Desire (1975?)

Oh sister when I come to lie in your arms
You should not treat me like a stranger
Our Father would not like the way that you act
And you must realize the danger.

Oh sister am I not a brother to you
And one deserving of affection ?
And is our purpose not the same on this earth
To love and follow His direction ?

We grew up together
From the cradle to the grave
We died and were reborn
And then mysteriously saved.

Oh sister when I come to knock on your door
Don't turn away you'll create sorrow
Time is an ocean but it ends at the shore
You may not see me tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSxaC3aXRjA

[kevin]

Grey cloud,
For someone as myself who has struggled with words, that was very flattering, cheers.
Sanskrit is where in my opinion the real gems will hide, then into hebrew.
For whatever reason/s I think our language (possibly shakespeare based) has been altered, the harmonics of what we hear has been changed ( we may be almost talking sanskrit backwards)
It was in the forties I believe when the frequencies were altered, much to the annoyance of the musicians, basically sneaked in under the cover of the wars shadow?
There may have been the best of reasons for a sort of veil been dropped, the power involved that we are ,in my opinion , now looking into on this site are the ultimate of all.
They may have been weaponised and used wrongly, in time, whatever time is.
But as with all things a duality exists, and at this time, I sense a blackness has enveloped the world.
The TIME to clear this blackness must be near, otherwise I doubt we would be conversing?

Basically You KNOW, it is a case of recognising again what You know, that is driving you and us all to seek that truth.
The so called acashic records are in my opinion in the lattice structure I have attempted to show, an information highway, and we are the antenae, if we realise our potential again.
If you think of yourself as part of that system, a lone jewel in a sea of such, with all of your knowledge within the field about you, not in your head as such, and that field about you can connect to the whole, a bit borg like in effect.

Thus as the field deminishs, so does memory and recall, the early years of your time on earth become closer to your centre, until the field cannot support the biological any longer so it departs back into the whole again, to re-charge, and be mysteriously re-born?
kevin
Kevin

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Mague,

One story is that the old sun gave birth to her daughter before she died. Her daughter took over her mothers heritage and followed her path.

Interesting that the Sun is seen as feminine. Heraclitus said that the Sun is new every day.

Serpent with a poisonous tail = scorpion = scorpio? Just a thought.
The wolf Fenrir puzzles me. I'm not quite sure what he represents. Do you happen to know anything about the names of the constellations in Nordic or Germanic lore? Canis Major maybe? Given the burning tail the obvious conclusion would be some sort of bollide. However, with these ancient writings I tend to employ a sort of reversed Occam's Razor and go for the subtle rather than the obvious.

Thor is another interesting character (aren't they all?). I don't dispute your interpretation as these characters frequently represent more than one thing but as I understand it, Thor existed independently of Odin. That is, Thor was not created by Odin, he just turns up. Please correct me if I am wrong on this. If I am correct, then it would suggest that Thor is an entity of or denizen of the realm of the fixed stars as Odin (as I understand things) is the creator god
who is responsible for the realm below the fixed stars (the physical material realm).

The fact that Odin is killed and his son would suggest some sort of change in cycles? Any thoughts on why it is the upper jaw of the wolf which Vidar rips off?

It is maybe a bit far fetched, but water is a symbol for consciousness. The ocean is the pool of consciousness containing the potential to all knowledge/experience.

Not far-fetched at all. Not sure I agree though. If Water = consciousness, then what do you see Air as representing. I see Water as the medium as it can contain/carry both Earth (solid) and Air (gas). Perhaps you differentiate between 'consciousness' and 'mind'?

The mayas talk about 4 desasters. One of them was that the humans where turned into monkeys.

Where I live, as a term of derision we call stupid people chimps. (Apologies to apes and monkeys everywhere).

The problem with the egyptians and a lot other cultures is, that the western world differs outer from inner world.

Exactly. This is something which modern athors, academic or not, constantly fail to take into consideration. The most dangerous example of this is the American Christians who read the bible literally. Chimps.

The short moment is enough to break the worldtree (axis) and to allow the two wild ones in suns orbit to escape. Both pass earth so close that it was possible to hear their sounds. A sizzling and a howling one.

Have you ever heard of the Book of Kolbrin (aka the Kolbrin Bible)? It is British and claims to be ancient. It contains an account (one of the best I have read) of the coming of the 'Destroyer'. It is not unlike yours. First there is several days of eerie silence as the birds etc sense the coming of this thing. Then as the Destroyer approaches a noise becomes audible, which gradually rises to a howling. And that is only the start of it.
There is another, very similar book called the 'Oera Linda' from Friseland (spelling might be a bit out there - northern Holland, Denmark way). This tells, among other things, of the sinking of Atland (or Ataland) which was situated somewhere in the North Sea. The name Atland causes a lot of moderns to take this as evidence of Atlantis rather than just meaning 'old land'. Why do people assume that Atlantis is the only piece of land to ever have sunk or otherwise disapeeared? Chimps.
The antiquity of both the books is disputed but they are both very interesting reads and contain many puzzles if the are modern.
Incidentally, neither of them is a 'book' as such but they are collections of (allegedly) ancient manuscripts collected together to form a book.
Try googling them.

[sixtyeight]

At sacred-texts.com there is a book in the atlantis section that is a very interesting read. Title- Ragnarok the age of fire and gravel, By Ignatius Donnelly. I have seen with my own eyes that there are no layers in the soil (unstratified)in some areas. One area in western Iowa called " Loess hills' is a good example. Small mountains/large hills of a lite brown clay{Loess} with no layers. The theory is that the hills where deposited in a wind blown manner after the glaciers melted. Wind blown but without layers is impossible. Unless it was wind blown in one large burst. Another interesting fact about this particular Loess clay formation is that there is only one other like it in the world, it is located in China. If you look at your globe you will find that China is approximately 180* from Iowa. These facts fit very well with the story listed above. This book suggests comets were to blame. I'm sorry this book is not an ancient text. Hope the helps.

[Grey Cloud]

Kevin,

For someone as myself who has struggled with words, that was very flattering, cheers.

You are very welcome. It is because you reach your conclusions by a totally different route to mine which helps me have confidence in the ideas I have cobbled together from reading various ancient authors etc. Like I said: many paths; one Truth.

Sanskrit is where in my opinion the real gems will hide, then into hebrew.
For whatever reason/s I think our language (possibly shakespeare based) has been altered, the harmonics of what we hear has been changed ( we may be almost talking sanskrit backwards)

There was some talk a few years ago of using Sanskrit as the next generation computer language.
You are correct about the English language. English as we have it today was created in Elizabethan/Tudor times and one of the main players was Francis Bacon who is thought by many including me to be the author of the Shakespeare works. He was aslo heavily involved in the writing of the King James version of the Bible. Bacon also wrote a book called The New Atlantis. Very, very, interesting guy.
English is a very good language for the physical world but it is not very good for philosphy especially metaphysics. We have names for countless different types of screws but only one word for love, for example.
The ancient languages were much better but the ancients knew the limitations and one of the reasons they used allegory and symbolism etc was because they realised those limitations.

The TIME to clear this blackness must be near, otherwise I doubt we would be conversing?

Agreed. The question is whether we clear it or it is cleared for us (my money is on the latter). The Greek goddess Athene (whose name is related to or derived from nous (the higher mind)) carried a spear which when brandished (or shaken) gave off a light which threw back the darkeness of ignorance. Bacon said his muse was Athene.

Basically You KNOW, it is a case of recognising again what You know, that is driving you and us all to seek that truth.

The Greeks called this amenesis (unforgetting) and it works. One of the results of the last five years' reading of ancient texts is that I have learned how to think rather than analyse and memorise. I recently watched a film of the late, great Indian philosopher U.G. Krishnamurti. A guy was asking him questions and he said 'why do you keep asking me?' If you can ask the question you can answer it yourself'. Sadly, most people don't have the confidence to listen to their own answer and seek the answer from someone they assume knows more than they do, whether parent, teacher, scientist or the bloke down the pub.

The so called acashic records are in my opinion in the lattice structure I have attempted to show, an information highway, and we are the antenae, if we realise our potential again.
If you think of yourself as part of that system, a lone jewel in a sea of such, with all of your knowledge within the field about you, not in your head as such, and that field about you can connect to the whole, a bit borg like in effect.

I think that if one could follow that lattice structure to the other end of it, then you would find the real us sat there creating this world down here. We are our own avatars. And you are right that it is not the head, the ancients and not so ancients all speak of the heart as being the seat of the true intelligence. Note that there is not a chakra for the brain though there are two in the brain (pineal and pituitary glands)

Thus as the field deminishs, so does memory and recall, the early years of your time on earth become closer to your centre, until the field cannot support the biological any longer so it departs back into the whole again, to re-charge, and be mysteriously re-born?

Spot on again. According to my understanding we have just finished the descending cycle and are about to, or have just begun the ascending. I could go into this in great length but I don't want to de-rail my own thread.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi sixtyeight and welcome to the forum.
I see you have started down here in the NIAMI section. The only way is up?
Unfortunately I know next to nothing about geology although there are some on these boards who do. It might be interesting if someone opened up a sister thread to this one dealing with the geological evidence?
Sacred-texts is one of my favourite Internet resources. I haven't read the Donelly book but I have come across chunks of it here and there.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Allynh
To be honest I'm not that interested in Atlantis or anything to do with the Earth sciences.
I would also prefer to keep things as ancient as possible.

[mague]

Hi Mague,

One story is that the old sun gave birth to her daughter before she died. Her daughter took over her mothers heritage and followed her path.

Interesting that the Sun is seen as feminine. Heraclitus said that the Sun is new every day.

As far as i know all celtic/germanic tribes believed in the female powers. Mothers give matter to the growing child. The female is the base of matter. (Quite close to Reichs Orgone, the blue energy. Blue as Bravehearts face in the movie The baby colors pink-female, blue-male are a conspiracy from a celtic point of view )The sun changes all the time. Call it mood or temporary quality. But its the same sun. The difference is, that Sol is the daughter of the previous sun.

Serpent with a poisonous tail = scorpion = scorpio? Just a thought.
The wolf Fenrir puzzles me. I'm not quite sure what he represents. Do you happen to know anything about the names of the constellations in Nordic or Germanic lore? Canis Major maybe? Given the burning tail the obvious conclusion would be some sort of bollide. However, with these ancient writings I tend to employ a sort of reversed Occam's Razor and go for the subtle rather than the obvious.

Thor is another interesting character (aren't they all?). I don't dispute your interpretation as these characters frequently represent more than one thing but as I understand it, Thor existed independently of Odin. That is, Thor was not created by Odin, he just turns up. Please correct me if I am wrong on this. If I am correct, then it would suggest that Thor is an entity of or denizen of the realm of the fixed stars as Odin (as I understand things) is the creator god
who is responsible for the realm below the fixed stars (the physical material realm).

If we want to talk about tribal entities we need to look at the system those people use to sort things. Its wheels in wheels and spheres in spheres. They are based on observing the world. Almost all tribes base on groups within groups. It is like mathematical theory of sets. A person is part of a family. Mother, father, uncles, aunts, grandparents. This family is part of a clan. A good example is that Lakota are part of the Sioux clan. The clan is part of a nation and the nation is part of a race and so on...
The same way the whole inner and outer world is sorted. If they have a name for air, then the name is valid for all air. For the air on earth and any potentially exiting planet with an "airy" atmosphere. If there is an entity to describe iron, then the "iron god" is huge. He is all iron on earth and the whole universe. It is one nation of iron molekules so to speak When oxigene is oxidating iron, then obviously the "iron god" and the "oxigene god" struggle a bit with each other .

Absolute contrary to many religions the native systems of belief do not wait for a savior/avatar or anything else. For those the gods are here and never have left. There is no god in the sky or on earth. Those entities are here and there at the same time. Its all based on the system of family and clan and every clan or nation has a leader which western modern peole translate as gods. Those gods dont want people to worship them, they only want respect. The same respect we should show to everything existing. Without the huge trees the soil would be dry and the small plants wont have water to live. Its really more like big brothers and sister then gods...

If Thor was battling the serpent with thunder and lightening, then he was there. Maybe he was battling somewhere else in the Pleades. But that doesnt matter. For the humans he was here.

Inner and outer world, within atmosphere or outside. It is possible that a "god" is in different places at the same time.

If you read Homer's story about the trojan war in this mindset, then a lot things do make sense. Apollo then is really on top of the trojan walls. Probably some couldnt see him, but he was there. Maybe just in the inner world. Does it matter ? His presence is true, he cheated on Paris'es arrows. Just as other gods couldnt resist to take part in the drama. It doesnt matter if only the blind Elias could sense them. He and nobody else would lie about this. Would you lie about gods ? That would be silly and suicidal.

The fact that Odin is killed and his son would suggest some sort of change in cycles? Any thoughts on why it is the upper jaw of the wolf which Vidar rips off?

Probably it just was the upper part of what was thought to be the wolfs head. I dont know. As far as i know he just avenged his father. The serpent and the wolf have been Loki's children. Loki is the "god" on duty to create havoc. He is the unappealing one. The same story as everywhere, someone lets the flowers grow and someone is comming and spoiling them with a landslide....

It is maybe a bit far fetched, but water is a symbol for consciousness. The ocean is the pool of consciousness containing the potential to all knowledge/experience.

Not far-fetched at all. Not sure I agree though. If Water = consciousness, then what do you see Air as representing. I see Water as the medium as it can contain/carry both Earth (solid) and Air (gas). Perhaps you differentiate between 'consciousness' and 'mind'?

Does it matter ? We can use the dune and the sandgrain as well. All we do, be it spoken or written words or pictures and icons, we create pictures or should i say holograms ? What matters is the essence of the abstraction our holograms create.

The short moment is enough to break the worldtree (axis) and to allow the two wild ones in suns orbit to escape. Both pass earth so close that it was possible to hear their sounds. A sizzling and a howling one.

Have you ever heard of the Book of Kolbrin (aka the Kolbrin Bible)? It is British and claims to be ancient. It contains an account (one of the best I have read) of the coming of the 'Destroyer'. It is not unlike yours. First there is several days of eerie silence as the birds etc sense the coming of this thing. Then as the Destroyer approaches a noise becomes audible, which gradually rises to a howling.

I cant find the article anymore. There was a woman who heard a weird sound in her house. Not everywhere, just in a certain spot. Lots of investigations happened, but in the end it turned out to be earths humming. Something of the ground below the house and something about the corners of the house made it audible. However, every little child knows that stars are singing

Try googling them.

I ll look for them.

[mague]

This is because I have come to the conclusion that virtually nothing new worth knowing has been written in the last 1500-2000 years. Or, put another way, I have gone back to the ancient texts in an attempt to throw off the accumulated baggage of the last 1500-2000 years (or my 51 years).

You will run out of books very soon How far can you read back ? 4-5000 years ? How many such old books are out there ? You probably will end up like Kevin and start to read the source code of the program or like me collecting legends and farie tales or talking to old rocks or the sun itself

[Grey Cloud]

Hmmn, the ancient textual evidence is not exactly flying in is it? I thought I would be inundated by material from the Saturnistas and Velikovskians.