Chemtrails (Split from) Global Warming / Climategate

[Lloyd]

Chemtrails as Screening
* I don't believe contrails last more than a few minutes. I think the ones that linger for hours are chemtrails that are said to contain aluminum, barium salts, lead, mercury, mycoplasma, mold spores and other toxins, like ethylene dibromide. Will Thomas says the military now also is spraying out nano-size radio-controlled chips in chemtrails. See http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news34_chemtrails.html.
* This site http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/smoking_gun.html mentions an online book on global warming, called Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base (1992), by Committee on Science, Engineering, and Public Policy at http://books.nap.edu/books/0309043867/html/index.html, which says on Page 447:

Screening Out Some Sunlight
Another option for mitigating a global warming would be to try to control the global radiation balance by limiting the amount of incoming radiation from the sun. This could be done by increasing the reflectivity of the earth, i.e., the albedo. Proposals for increasing the whiteness of roofs and surface features would have some effect, but only a fraction of incident solar radiation reaches the earth's surface and a purposeful change in albedo would have more impact if done high in the atmosphere. According to Ramanathan (1988), an increase in planetary albedo of just 0.5 percent is sufficient to halve the effect of a CO2 doubling. Placing a screen in the atmosphere or low earth orbit could take several forms: it could involve changing the quantity or character of cloud cover, it could take the form of a continuous sheet, or it could be divided into many ''mirrors" or a cloud of dust. Preliminary characterizations of some of the possibilities that might be considered are provided below.

Screening Doesn't Work
* Since that was written in 1992, it's plausible that part of the purpose of chemtrails has been to screen out solar radiation. But, as seen on Mars in 2001 with its global dust storm, screening can actually increase warming as it did on Mars at that time. And I think the way it happens is that the atmosphere becomes more conductive, so electrical energy is conducted more easily to the planet where it heats it up somewhat. So, if chemtrails were meant to reduce global warming by screening out sunlight, the effort may have backfired, although I don't know that the chemtrail effect has actually been all that significant, compared to the increase in solar energy during the 90s. But it's worth considering.

[PersianPaladin]

Chemtrails as Screening
* I don't believe contrails last more than a few minutes. I think the ones that linger for hours are chemtrails that are said to contain aluminum, barium salts, lead, mercury, mycoplasma, mold spores and other toxins, like ethylene dibromide. Will Thomas says the military now also is spraying out nano-size radio-controlled chips in chemtrails. See http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news34_chemtrails.html.
* This site http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/smoking_gun.html mentions an online book on global warming, called Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base (1992), by Committee on Science, Engineering, and Public Policy at http://books.nap.edu/books/0309043867/html/index.html, which says on Page 447:

Screening Out Some Sunlight
Another option for mitigating a global warming would be to try to control the global radiation balance by limiting the amount of incoming radiation from the sun. This could be done by increasing the reflectivity of the earth, i.e., the albedo. Proposals for increasing the whiteness of roofs and surface features would have some effect, but only a fraction of incident solar radiation reaches the earth's surface and a purposeful change in albedo would have more impact if done high in the atmosphere. According to Ramanathan (1988), an increase in planetary albedo of just 0.5 percent is sufficient to halve the effect of a CO2 doubling. Placing a screen in the atmosphere or low earth orbit could take several forms: it could involve changing the quantity or character of cloud cover, it could take the form of a continuous sheet, or it could be divided into many ''mirrors" or a cloud of dust. Preliminary characterizations of some of the possibilities that might be considered are provided below.

Screening Doesn't Work
* Since that was written in 1992, it's plausible that part of the purpose of chemtrails has been to screen out solar radiation. But, as seen on Mars in 2001 with its global dust storm, screening can actually increase warming as it did on Mars at that time. And I think the way it happens is that the atmosphere becomes more conductive, so electrical energy is conducted more easily to the planet where it heats it up somewhat. So, if chemtrails were meant to reduce global warming by screening out sunlight, the effort may have backfired, although I don't know that the chemtrail effect has actually been all that significant, compared to the increase in solar energy during the 90s. But it's worth considering.

The "chemtrails" conspiracy has been discredited by meteorologists and aviation pilots among others.

It's well worth checking out this website as it offers a rational explanation for the variety of contrails (bare in mind that meteorological conditions will affect weather contrails linger, last or merge into cirro-stratus):-
http://contrailscience.com/

[Lloyd]

* The discreditors of chemtrails have been discredited. The chemtrail explanation is rational.

[PersianPaladin]

* The discreditors of chemtrails have been discredited. The chemtrail explanation is rational.

Well, I personally think that your position is not helping the credibility of EU/PC proponents. We need to try and attract people who don't neccessarily follow our circle, rather than push people away. We can't expect to control human behaviour or habits and that's why we should be careful and avoid pushing speculative conspiracy theories in science sections of this forum.

[Goldminer]

The "chemtrails" conspiracy has been discredited by meteorologists and aviation pilots among others.

It's well worth checking out this website as it offers a rational explanation for the variety of contrails (bare in mind that meteorological conditions will affect weather contrails linger, last or merge into cirro-stratus):-
http://contrailscience.com/

* The discreditors of chemtrails have been discredited. The chemtrail explanation is rational.

Well, I personally think that your position is not helping the credibility of EU/PC proponents. We need to try and attract people who don't necessarily follow our circle, rather than push people away. We can't expect to control human behavior or habits and that's why we should be careful and avoid pushing speculative conspiracy theories in science sections of this forum.

Sorry, double P Paladin, I have to weigh in with double L Lloyd on this one. I have a close friend who works for this outfit, and verified the details.

.

[PersianPaladin]

You cite one example and then conflate it to force-fit your chemtrail conspiracy. Sorry, I don't buy it.

I've studied meteorology for years and I've come to realise the chemtrail people are completely ignorant of increases in air-traffic, standard pollutants from such traffic as well as the dynamics of cloud formation.

[Lloyd]

* PP, chemtrail scholars are not [all] dopes. The book I referenced earlier on geo-engineering to mitigate climate change was written in part by a government agency, the NAS. On the NAS website at http://www.nasonline.org it says:

The NAS was established by an Act of Congress that was signed by President Abraham Lincoln on March 3, 1863, at the height of the Civil War, which calls upon the NAS to "investigate, examine, experiment, and report upon any subject of science or art" whenever called upon to do so by any department of the government.

* At the chemtrails site (http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/smoking_gun.html), which mentioned the book, it says in more detail:

- Some months ago, a Chemtrail insider that Brian nicknamed 'Deep Shield' came forward with specific and detailed information about this mysterious program, corresponding with him via e-mail. A transcript of the communications with Deep Shield and the Shield Project can be read online at: http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/shieldproject.html. For those of us who have studied chemtrails carefully, the revealing dialog rang of the truth.
- Since then we have been able to study, and verify a number of Deep Shield's primary claims. The anonymous insider gave Brian's readers some valuable clues to follow if they wished to investigate deeper into the history and hard science of chemtrails. A primary clue was to investigate the term 'geoengineering.'
- One investigator took the clues provided by 'Deep Shield' and dug in. She eventually found an N.A.S. study on Geoengineering and the Mitigation of Global Warming. This study is still available online and is also available in hardcover. This massive document validates the insider information provided by Deep Shield, and has lead to an additional gold mine of evidence.
- This massive research study is entitled: Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base - Panel on Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming, sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, and the Institute of Medicine. The results were presented in 1992 and published in book form in 2000 by the National Academy Press. This 994 page study is the textbook on greenhouse gasses, global warming, policy decisions and mitigation's (corrective measures). Included within is the hard science many chemtrails researchers have been searching for: the scientists, agencies, institutions and corporations involved, cost factors, chemical formula, mathematical modeling, delivery methods, policies, recruiting of foreign governments, acquisition of materials, and the manufacturing of aerosol compounds, etc.
- Policy Implications of Global Warming - This entire volume can presently be read online at: http://books.nap.edu/books/0309043867/html/index.html.

* Why are some not believing that this government book was talking about using weather or climate modification with aerosols, i.e. chemtrails, to supposedly mitigate global warming?

- Keep in mind that this study is only the tip of the iceberg. Literally hundreds of papers on related topics have been published in scientific journals. We don't expect this featured study to remain online for long once the cat is out of the bag. So do check it out soon.
- The full involvement of foremost government agencies, research firms, universities and private corporations are detailed in this global 'geoengineering' study. Keep in mind that this was approved by and funded by Congress. We expect that this documentation will bolster the beliefs of most hardcore chemtrail believers. It will also continue to undermining what little trust still remains in our leaders and their institutions. This documentation proves that they have lied repeatedly about their involvement and the existence of chemtrail spraying programs.
- It alsp appears that we 'Chemtrail' investigators have been chasing our tails, being intentionally discredited, maligned, and fed disinformation to keep the actual truth just below the levels of media perception. The real story has been taking place in broad daylight, safely concealed under the scientific umbrella of 'Geoengineering and intentional climate change.'
- Chemtrails are just one of the 'mitigations' proposed to Geoengineering our planet. Once we began sifting through the numerous studies, experiments and papers written on intentional climate change, we found a wealth of supporting evidence of well funded global atmospheric modification programs. One such paper is Geoengineering: A Climate Change Manhattan Project http://www.metatronics.net/lit/geo2.html#two (Jay Michaelson, published in the Stanford Environmental Law Journal, January, 1998)
- The author makes a very convincing case for the pressing need of undertaking geoengineering projects. He argues that regulation, environmental laws and other stumbling blocks limit our ability to directly address the dangers that threaten us directly and immediately. He writes: "The projected insufficiency of Kyoto's emission reduction regime, and the problems of absence, cost, and incentives discussed in part II, cry out for an alternative to our present state of climate change policy myopia."
- "Geoengineering--intentional, human-directed manipulation of the Earth's climatic systems--may be such an alternative. This part proposes that, unlike a regulatory "Marshall Plan" of costly emissions reductions, technology subsidies, and other mitigation measures, a non-regulatory "Manhattan Project" geared toward developing feasible geoengineering remedies for climate change can meaningfully close the gaps in global warming and avert many of its most dire consequences."

* There's more, but that should make the case.

[PersianPaladin]

It doesn't.

You sound like <<moderator edit>> Alex Jones, I'm sorry to say.

[Lloyd]

* It's against the rules here to call members derogatory names. My last post was well reasoned and your denial doesn't change that.

[Lloyd]

* In my post before last here, I showed that the government appeared to initiate the chemtrail operation in the early 90s to supposedly mitigate the effects of global warming. Below is evidence that chemtrails actually increase warming. This means, either that the operations have backfired, or that the rationale in government science for chemtrail operations, i.e. aerosol spraying, was a ruse, and the real intention was to increase warming, perhaps to "prove" that it is real, or to mitigate coming global cooling.
* This is from http://www.pakalertpress.com/2011/04/26 ... -operation.

- Independent scientist Leuren Moret also believes that the Japan earthquake was triggered by a HAARP aerosol/chemtrails plasma weapon. Her hypothesis is supported by the research of Clifford E. Carnicom, one of the world’s foremost experts on the global covert spraying of aerosols (chemtrails) [See http://www.carnicom.com]. Carnicom and Moret know that covert aerosol-spraying operations have transformed the Earth’s atmosphere into a plasma for carrying out weaponized applications such as tectonic (earthquake) warfare. Additionally, there is substantial evidence that HAARP was active before and during the March 11th earthquake.
- On April 7th, a 7.4 earthquake aftershock struck 25 miles of the Japanese coast. During the quake, there was a strange blue light show, which has been referred to as an “earthquake light.” Were the lights caused by HAARP or a similar program tampering with the ionosphere? According to NASA, a possible explanation for earthquake lights is local disruption of the Earth’s magnetic field and/or ionosphere in the region of tectonic stress, resulting in the observed glow effects either from ionospheric radiative recombination at lower altitudes and greater atmospheric pressure or as aurora.

* This is from Carnicom at http://www.carnicom.com/light1.htm.

- Measurements have recently been taken with a calibrated photometer to measure the reduction in intensity of sunlight that occurs as a direct result of heavy aerosol operations1. These measurements show a rapid reduction in the transmission of sunlight from a value of 97% on a “clear day” to the lower level of approximately 80% during the early stages of heavy aerosol operations. These measurements have been taken to coincide with the photographs below that show the aircraft aerosol trails systematically increasing the extent of the aerosol bank.
- Rather than reducing the temperature of the earth and lower atmosphere, the aerosol operations commonly have the opposite effect of increasing temperature and aggravating, if not inducing drought conditions. This is a result of a combination of factors, including the specific heats of the elements involved as well as the hygroscopic properties of the aerosols. Physical and chemical analysis of the aerosol dynamics will lead to the expected observations of increased temperature, decreased moisture and an increase in winds. The absorption and displacement of this solar energy into environmental, military, biological and electromagnetic operations represents a theft of the natural and divine rights of the inhabitants of this planet. These are only preliminary effects upon the local and regional environments; longer term and more serious impacts upon the biosphere have been, are now and will become evident.

[PersianPaladin]

My apologies for the derogatory remark. I just find that the "chemtrail" thing originates straight out of the conspiracy-theory industry. Originally - it was some secret operation to poison people. Then, it became some conspiracy to change the weather but still had poisonous side-effects.

The science is explained here:-
http://contrailscience.com/

New Mexicans for Science and Reason - addressing "chemtrails":-
http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm

(Note the video on the frontpage of NMSR is revealing in itself)


Your claim that contrails contribute to overall warming; is far too speculative. Have you seen the 9/11 study?

The thin wisps of condensation that trail jet airliners have a significant influence on the climate, according to scientists who studied U.S. skies during a rare interruption in national air traffic after the September 11 terrorist attacks.

During the three-day commercial flight hiatus, when the artificial clouds known as contrails all but disappeared, the variations in high and low temperatures increased by 1.1 degrees Celsius (2 degrees Fahrenheit) each day, said meteorological researchers.

While the temperature range is significant, whether the jet clouds have a net effect on global warming remains unknown.

"I think what we've shown are that contrails are capable of affecting temperatures," said lead scientist David Travis of the University of Wisconsin, Whitewater. "Which direction, in terms of net heating or cooling, is still up in the air."

http://articles.cnn.com/2002-08-07/tech ... _s=PM:TECH

This was empirical evidence. Of course, there have been some scientific releases that have recently claimed that contrails contribute to warming:-

http://www.livescience.com/13462-contra ... ravel.html

Yet, the 9/11 study shows that the above claim is not quite clear cut. Indeed, it could be that less warmth is ultimately absorbed during the day (including warmth absorbed by the oceans); but this warmth is trapped better at night:-

He found that [PDF], for those three days, the average range between highs and lows at more than 4,000 weather stations across the US was 1 degree C wider than normal. In other words, contrails seemed to raise nighttime temperatures and lower daytimes ones.

But the real effect was in daytime highs, which were much higher. That would seem to indicate that, contrary to prevailing thinking, contrails might have a net cooling effect.

Certain areas seemed particularly sensitive to the absence of contrails. Because of unique climatic conditions in the atmosphere in these regions — chiefly, moisture-laden air — the Pacific Northwest and the Midwest are often covered by contrails. But when planes stopped flying right after 9-11, Travis also found that these areas saw the most dramatic increase in daytime highs.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Br ... mperatures

Regional variations will also complicate the picture as to the effects of cirrus or cirro-stratus cloud development.


Do you know how difficult it is for climate scientists (and skeptics alike) to model the behaviour of cloud-feedbacks in GCM's?

This is NOT to say that weather-modification attempts have not been occurring. It's just that there is no evidence that they have been occurring on ANYWHERE NEAR the scale&frequency that has been claimed by chemtrail theorists. A lot of weather modification experiments have been very local - and it seems they are ending in more failures than successes (China's efforts of making rain to alleviate its drought has mostly been unsuccessful - with only a few successes). Chaos theory and highly dynamic feedback mechanisms probably mean that our climate is ultimately beyond the control of man.

Regards,

~PP

[Vek]

I just find that the "chemtrail" thing originates straight out of the conspiracy-theory industry. Originally - it was some secret operation to poison people. Then, it became some conspiracy to change the weather but still had poisonous side-effects.

You may find the hard reality, that they are indeed coating our skies; unpalatable because there is a great amount of speculation over their reasons for carrying out such operations but their can be little doubt if you spend some time just looking up and watching the truth unfold. I don't bother trying to convince most people around me of the facts of the matter of their existence anymore; those words "CONSPIRACY THEORY" are so imprinted into the minds of the masses that they seem to be happy to disregard any evidence and critical thinking wherever they come up against anything that makes ripples in their comfort zone. I wouldn't judge you on what you cannot accept as truth. We all do this in some way or other; I myself don't listen much or bother to waste my time, as I see it, researching those who claim the moon landing was totally faked or that Obama is a clone built for the job he holds.
I do follow the speculation over the reasons for the chemtrails but I have little true insight into their doings apart from the more than obvious trails themselves and the very real affect they have on the cloud cover and air temperature.

I live on a remote island and I am more than aware of the air traffic that passes. I know which of the few planes are domestic flights and which are the passing transatlantic flights; their times and their regular, short lived contrails, which can indeed be 'slightly' longer lasting under certain conditions...and yes, I am also aware when on the odd day, my skies are filled by about twenty or so high flying white jets going in every direction where there may be some blue left, only switching their trails off and on if they are approaching a previous chem spread out zone or as they are leaving out over the sea. I see them linger for hours sometimes and slowly drag and spread across the sky. Though I very much doubt that they are piloted by the lizard men from nibiru or whatever; I don't doubt my so called lying eyes, that there is more than water vapour being released.

You don't like the idea that this would be done behind your back and the massive pile of disinformation put out does weigh heavy against some of the mad ideas that have been speculated by so many.
They just have to repeat the lie and somehow this is more than enough to get away with what they do.
You have more than put across your point on why it's all just crank pot, paranoiac, conspiracy theory nonsense and there is little more that those who don't accept the idea have to say so I suggest, instead of repeating the desire for silence over the issue; in case it makes us all seem a bit odd... just let those who are interested in the possibility of such a reality, discus their information and ideas without the "OH NO THEY DIDN'T" chants from those who don't seem to have the time to look up.
There are still many who don't want to discus the chemtrails and the easy answer is; just don't and leave those who wish to, to do so.

[Lloyd]

PP said: Chaos theory and highly dynamic feedback mechanisms probably mean that our climate is ultimately beyond the control of man.

* I don't know what country you're based in, but you seem to be unaware of a lot of U.S. history. In about 1975 after Nixon's Watergate fiasco, Senator Frank Church was head of a committee that was investigating government wrong-doing, such as in the Intelligence community. They discovered that it had been doing many illegal things, some even killing U.S. citizens during experimental procedures. There were mind-control experiments using drugs, like LSD. There were spraying of biowarfare agents in populated areas. And it was found that laws on the books [meaning still in effect] allow the govt to continue secretly to do similar "experiments" even after that and even still today with little or no oversight or accountability. The situation has gotten increasingly worse since the 9/11 attacks.
* Terry Reed wrote a book, called Compromised. In the Foreword or near there he quoted Harry Truman, who said, when he signed the act creating the CIA, he understood it to be a re-organization of the Intelligence community to make it more efficient, but the lawyers found a loophole that the CIA used to do anything they wanted, supposedly for national security, but really for big business. Truman never meant for the CIA to have carte blanche to do whatever they wanted. Terry Reed was a pilot for the CIA or the like who flew narcotics into the U.S. from Central America in exchange for guns etc to countries like Nicauraqua.
* The "gate" part of Climategate comes from Watergate and it means huge corruption. Such corruption is real and it is largely what prevents real science from getting re-established in Western society.

[davesmith_au]

Could we please leave the upper boards for discussion of EU and established science? This is not the board to discuss the CIA, 9/11, chemtrails or conspiracies.

Dave Smith.
Forum Administrator.

[Lloyd]

* Dave, you may have missed it, but chemtrails was brought up only because a 1992 government report suggested that aerosol spraying [chemtrails] would supposedly be needed to mitigate global warming. And the rest was added only to show that governments do things in secret, possibly including aerosol spraying as the report recommended.