Hidden History Of The Human Race

[junglelord]

I found this and thought it was fasinating.
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo ... uman_Race/

[allynh]

These are the web pages to the Klaus Dona videos.

Video
http://projectcamelot.org./klaus_dona.html

Video
http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/klaus_dona_en.html

Transcript
http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/klaus_ ... pt_en.html

[mathew]

From another angle- Graham Hancock: Setting History Free

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvNEVvHgOOY

[CTJG 1986]

From another angle- Graham Hancock: Setting History Free

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvNEVvHgOOY

I'm curious if Mr. Hancock has ever looked into Saturnian Theory at all as it would seem to tie in very nicely with much of his work that I've gone through thus far, though I'm only just beginning and I guess I'll find out in due time.

If the capture of the Saturnian System occurred around 12,000 years ago it makes the "recent" cataclysm on Mars and the fact that human civilization around the world created monuments to the stars in their positions at that time make a lot of sense, not to mention all the other things.

Since the stars would be appearing to human civilization for the first time from the envelope of the anode glow of Saturn that encompassed the "golden age" that would have blocked out the stars beyond it it makes sense they would have been awed by them and would have built monuments to them in their current positions, as they first appeared.


I'm just rambling here and I know most of this is probably covered in more detail around here somewhere and most of the regulars here already are aware of it more so than I, it's just nice to have some corroborating views and evidence from other sources and I'm starting to open up to it all a lot more now and it's got my mind going and I just needed to say something.

And say thank you for the videos to all three of you. Very enlightening.

[junglelord]

Hey I thought the same thing as I watched that video.
Makes sense, does it not?

[mathew]

There are soo many dots to be connected. here's to living in exciting times! As knowledgeable as Mr. Hancock is, he still subscribes to luni-solar precession theory. I find it lacking , and for a reason deep in my gut I cannot explain, I feel that the forces driving the precession of the sun are inexorably linked to our history . The Binary Research Institute is a great resource:
http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org/
He does mention the 12,000 year cataclysm, and as we know, that may be linked to Saturn theory. i have yet to hear even alternative archeological researchers incorporate electric universe, but as dots are connected...

[junglelord]

Would not the change in sea levels at the end of the ice age, be related to the change of Saturn to the Sun?

[CTJG 1986]

There are soo many dots to be connected. here's to living in exciting times! As knowledgeable as Mr. Hancock is, he still subscribes to luni-solar precession theory. I find it lacking , and for a reason deep in my gut I cannot explain, I feel that the forces driving the precession of the sun are inexorably linked to our history . The Binary Research Institute is a great resource:
http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org/
He does mention the 12,000 year cataclysm, and as we know, that may be linked to Saturn theory. i have yet to hear even alternative archeological researchers incorporate electric universe, but as dots are connected...

While I agree that lunisolar theory is a bit "wobbly" and I do hold the binary theory as being quite plausible but to be fair to Mr. Hancock he does state in his 6 part video of the Lost Ark that precession is not well understood and the existing lunisolar theory could very well be completely wrong.

I believe his main focus is on the fact the ancients were aware of the precession and incorporated it into their monuments and myths and not so much on what causes the precession.

I agree it would be nice to hear more of the EU in the alternative studies of science in many areas.

Would not the change in sea levels at the end of the ice age, be related to the change of Saturn to the Sun?

That would depend on whether the ice age was a result of the change itself, as I believe it most likely was.

Earth would have been going through chaotic climate variations during the change and generally speaking would have become much colder than when within Saturn's anode glow and the sudden shift in temperatures combined with all of the hydrogen/water shed from Saturn that came down on Earth could easily have created the flash freezing effects witnessed in places like the "permafrost forest" in Alaska and resulted in the ice age that those here should know didn't "creep" across the world from the poles as conventional theory stipulates.

Though that in itself opens up many other questions. As far as I know no myth mentions a great ice storm but rather just a great flood...

[nick c]

The ancients were very much concerned with the movement or precession of the equinoxes, but not the same gradual change that we measure today. Their concern was more immediate and practical. After a planetary catastrophe the equinoxes would have to be determined anew, buildings would need to be realigned or dismantled and replaced with new buildings and new alignments. Astrologer/astronomers would have to determine the new astronomical alignments of temples, obelisks, sundials and shadow clocks etc. There is plenty of evidence that temples were reoriented and sundials became useless and had to be remade. Much of this is documented in Worlds In Collision, as well as Kronos, Pensee, etc.
Babylonian measurements in cuneiform tablets that provide data for observations of Venus that do not make sense in today's arrangement, as well as tablets showing data that has impermissable errors for the length of the day corresponding to a 2.5 degree error in the latitude of Babylon. (Likewise, Lockyer was perplexed that ancient Chinese charts made similar errors in the length of the day, so that calculations of latitudes of their observatories make no sense today, leading one scholar to conjecture that the Chinese borrowed the incorrect information from the Babylonians! even though there is no other indication that there was any such contact between the two cultures.) Scholars attempted to explain this by assuming the measurements were made at a location N of Babylon, but this contradicts the tablets themselves which give the location as Babylon.
There is the biblical account of the sundial of Ahaz which after a catastrophe no longer worked.
There is also a shadow clock discovered in Faijum Egypt (27 degrees N latitude) which does not work today. The clock has a fixed gnomon, no means of adjustment, indicating that it was not made to be portable and was used at a specific location. Any change in one of three astronomical factors could cause the clock to be inoperable:
1. the inclination of the pole to the ecliptic
2. length of the day
3. latitude of Faijum
Velikovsky believed that it may have been a combination of the all three.

An intact water clock was discovered at the Amon Temple of Karnak, dating to the 18th dynasty (a whole 'nother can of worms), the jar has markings for the equinoxes (when the length of day and night are equal) and the solstices (when day or night is the longest of the year.) The length of the day for the solstices varies with latitude. The water clock is off by +52 minutes for the winter solstice! and -52 minutes for the summer solstice. The equinox length of the day is accurate to the minute.
Velikovsky concludes:

The figures on the clock show a smaller difference between the length of daylight on the
solstices or between the longest and the shortest days of the year than is observed at Karnak at
the present time. Thus the water clock of Amenhotep III, if it was correctly built and correctly
interpreted, indicates that either Thebes was closer to the equator or that the inclination of the
equator toward the ecliptic was less than the present angle of 23 1/2°. In either case the climate of
the latitudes of Egypt could not have been the same as it is in our age.

There is a lot more. I recommend reading Worlds In Collision in order to understand the ancient obsession with the precession of the equinoxes. They were not observing the same phenomenon that we are today, so retrocalculating backward can only force one to the incorrect conclusions as the ancients were not observing the same skies.

I recommend reading a hard copy as this on line version is difficult (for me) to read:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21746049/Veli ... -Collision

Nick

[CTJG 1986]

The ancients were very much concerned with the movement or precession of the equinoxes, but not the same gradual change that we measure today. Their concern was more immediate and practical. After a planetary catastrophe the equinoxes would have to be determined anew, buildings would need to be realigned or dismantled and replaced with new buildings and new alignments. Astrologer/astronomers would have to determine the new astronomical alignments of temples, obelisks, sundials and shadow clocks etc. There is plenty of evidence that temples were reoriented and sundials became useless and had to be remade. Much of this is documented in Worlds In Collision, as well as Kronos, Pensee, etc.
Babylonian measurements in cuneiform tablets that provide data for observations of Venus that do not make sense in today's arrangement, as well as tablets showing data that has impermissable errors for the length of the day corresponding to a 2.5 degree error in the latitude of Babylon. (Likewise, Lockyer was perplexed that ancient Chinese charts made similar errors in the length of the day, so that calculations of latitudes of their observatories make no sense today, leading one scholar to conjecture that the Chinese borrowed the incorrect information from the Babylonians! even though there is no other indication that there was any such contact between the two cultures.) Scholars attempted to explain this by assuming the measurements were made at a location N of Babylon, but this contradicts the tablets themselves which give the location as Babylon.
There is the biblical account of the sundial of Ahaz which after a catastrophe no longer worked.
There is also a shadow clock discovered in Faijum Egypt (27 degrees N latitude) which does not work today. The clock has a fixed gnomon, no means of adjustment, indicating that it was not made to be portable and was used at a specific location. Any change in one of three astronomical factors could cause the clock to be inoperable:
1. the inclination of the pole to the ecliptic
2. length of the day
3. latitude of Faijum
Velikovsky believed that it may have been a combination of the all three.

An intact water clock was discovered at the Amon Temple of Karnak, dating to the 18th dynasty (a whole 'nother can of worms), the jar has markings for the equinoxes (when the length of day and night are equal) and the solstices (when day or night is the longest of the year.) The length of the day for the solstices varies with latitude. The water clock is off by +52 minutes for the winter solstice! and -52 minutes for the summer solstice. The equinox length of the day is accurate to the minute.
Velikovsky concludes:

The figures on the clock show a smaller difference between the length of daylight on the
solstices or between the longest and the shortest days of the year than is observed at Karnak at
the present time. Thus the water clock of Amenhotep III, if it was correctly built and correctly
interpreted, indicates that either Thebes was closer to the equator or that the inclination of the
equator toward the ecliptic was less than the present angle of 23 1/2°. In either case the climate of
the latitudes of Egypt could not have been the same as it is in our age.

There is a lot more. I recommend reading Worlds In Collision in order to understand the ancient obsession with the precession of the equinoxes. They were not observing the same phenomenon that we are today, so retrocalculating backward can only force one to the incorrect conclusions as the ancients were not observing the same skies.

I recommend reading a hard copy as this on line version is difficult (for me) to read:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21746049/Veli ... -Collision

Nick

Thanks for that.

Although I did read Worlds in Collision over a decade ago for a school project(ironically the Christian school I went to had no problem with Velikovsky with him being religious and all - I doubt a public school would allow it) I was an extreme skeptic at the time and only cared about it enough to get a passing grade and didn't hold on to very much of the info.

I tried reading the online copy of it but as you mention it's very difficult to read and I gave up on it after half of a chapter. I will definitely have to pick up a hard copy soon and give it a thorough review.

[CTJG 1986]

There are soo many dots to be connected. here's to living in exciting times! As knowledgeable as Mr. Hancock is, he still subscribes to luni-solar precession theory. I find it lacking , and for a reason deep in my gut I cannot explain, I feel that the forces driving the precession of the sun are inexorably linked to our history . The Binary Research Institute is a great resource:
http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org/
He does mention the 12,000 year cataclysm, and as we know, that may be linked to Saturn theory. i have yet to hear even alternative archeological researchers incorporate electric universe, but as dots are connected...

While I agree that lunisolar theory is a bit "wobbly" and I do hold the binary theory as being quite plausible but to be fair to Mr. Hancock he does state in his 6 part video of the Lost Ark that precession is not well understood and the existing lunisolar theory could very well be completely wrong.

I believe his main focus is on the fact the ancients were aware of the precession and incorporated it into their monuments and myths and not so much on what causes the precession.

I agree it would be nice to hear more of the EU in the alternative studies of science in many areas.

Actually, having just got back from work and completed that above mentioned video Mr. Hancock actually mentions the Binary Research Institute and explains the theory and refers to it as a "quite exciting" possibility, though in need of a good deal more corroboration.

I'm not so sure I'd say he subscribes to unisolar theory at all but is simply going with the conventional explanation to reduce hostility towards his work while still keeping the door open to other possibilities.

[mathew]

Thank you, point taken, Mr. Hancock knows his stuff. So we all seem to agree or are at least open to the idea that the motion of the entire solar system arcing through space is the actual cause of motion perceived as precession here on earth. For one thing, that would distribute the angular momentum throughout the solar system mo better. So the question is, is the sun orbiting another star or celestial body? The ancients refer to Sirius and Canopus as the "light posts of the galaxy", and those two stars seem to be the top contenders for the sun's binary partner. or Is it possible that the sun is "riding" a galactic current that expresses itself as a sine curve as we orbit the galaxy? It seems to me if the sun had a binary partner, we would have more evidence.

We also know that a 360 day calender was in use prior to today's 365.25. one possible take on events could be that proto saturn was captured and this "event" set up the great conjunction with 36o days a year, and then when the great conjunction fell apart that chaos threw the earth into today's orbit. I can only account for the dinosaurs great size in my mind, by the earth orbiting in a brown dwarf's anode glow. As Wallace points out this would alter the effective gravity on the planet.
I bought my own copy of Worlds in Collision because it is so dense w/info. Any specific references ?

[CTJG 1986]

A couple of links here that some may find interesting:

Graham Hancock - Underworld E01 - Part 1(part of a large series of actual videos, not just audio interviews)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1_jTTP42TM

Note that the audio is a little fuzzy but not too bad and the content makes up for it.

And doing some further research I came across this gem -

The Morien Institute Marine Archeology News Archive

http://www.morien-institute.org/uwnewsarchive.html

Edit: And yes, we're in agreement that the luni-solar theory is questionable to say the least.

And yes I know I left out the L's in the last 2 posts by accident, but didn't notice till after it was too late to edit. I have a habit of doing it for some reason, I must subconsciously hate luni-solar theory so badly I can't even spell it correctly...

[CTJG 1986]

I saw last night that History Television has an episode of 'Ancient Discoveries' they aired that covered the issue of the Japanese sites and although they claim they are only 2,000-5,000 years old I was surprised to see such a detailed discussion and focus on the ruins.

So I may have been a bit hasty in bad mouthing the mainstream on this one, though they are still clouding things and denying any possible origins that could be older than commonly accepted.

I missed the first part of the show so I'm not sure if they discussed other sites at all, but hopefully it will be on again in the future.

[Grey Cloud]

Matthew,
You wrote:

We also know that a 360 day calender was in use prior to today's 365.25....

The difference between 360 and 365.25 is minimal. It seems to me that either a) the velocity of the Earth's orbit around the Sun has slowed ever so slightly, or, b) the Earth's orbit around the Sun has lengthened ever so slightly, (or, possibly a combination thereof).
It seems to me unlikely that the Earth's orbit around the Sun and its alleged orbit around Saturn would have a difference of only 5.25 days. I find it much more realistic to assume that the change (of Solar orbit) from 360 to 365.25 took, say, decades and that the Earth's weather-patterns took, say, a few centuries to sort themselves out into something like those experienced today. That this change was induced by something which happened elsewhere in the Solar system I don't have a problem with.
I have yet to read anything in any ancient source which suggests that the Earth once orbited Saturn or any other body.

As for Velikovsky's WIC, I would suggest you check out his sources. With the Interweb this is not diffcult to do, especially with the ancient texts.