Program Dreams to Solve EU Problems etc

[Lloyd]

* This link explains how to program dreams and the benefits of doing so:
http://www.drmckenzie.com/cgibin/htmlos ... 9016808351.
* We did a little experimenting on dreams in the first incarnation of this forum, but I don't think we followed the directions given here, so maybe that's why the results weren't very impressive.
* Since it says you can get answers to most any question, even major scientific questions, it seems that a group effort to get answers via dreams would be worthwhile and that the most practical problems should be dealt with first.
* MY PROPOSAL
* So I propose that we program our dreams to get solutions for the problem of bias in science against EU theory.
* It says the wording of the program needs to be precise, so here's my initial suggestion. Say this at bedtime.

I strongly desire to have a dream just before it's time to get up in the morning that tells me clearly how the Thunderbolts team can best work to solve the problem of bias against EU theory in the fields of astronomy, physics, and education. I wish to remember the answer when I wake and to write it down quickly and to share it on the Thunderbolts forum.

* If anyone has ideas to improve the wording of the program, feel free to mention it.
* I'll try to remember to use the program myself tonight, but I may also order a solution to another problem, since I'm a bit greedy. I don't know if it works to seek solutions for 2 different problems the same night, but I may find out.
* I hope anyone here will like to try this experiment. It may take quite a while to get clear solutions, so I hope some will commit to keeping at it. And please share here whatever answers you get.
* I'm sure others can think of noteworthy problems to dream about too. Eh?

[redeye]

I don't know man. I have enough trouble trying to wring some sense out of my conscious thoughts!

Cheers!

[Lloyd]

* I see that the link I gave above doesn't go directly to the page on programming dreams. Instead it goes to the home page. So you have to go to the link at the bottom of the home page that says Programmed Dreams.
* Well, I had 2 dreams this morning that seem to indicate that progress is being made. So I guess that means the answer will take a while. It's very interesting that the second dream was of the same place as the first, but with many changes in the scenery. Here are the dreams.
-1. I woke up early and wrote down this dream. In the dream it's evening. There's a concrete floor with no roof or walls, just a bunch of boxes/containers of my stuff and Mom & Dad's stuff, covering much of the floor. Mom is there. I'm a little frustrated, because Mom reorganized my stuff and I don't know what's where. The floor is big enough for a small house. On one side of the floor is a clean, mowed, empty yard, maybe with one big tree not near the floor. Next to the yard is a paved country road. Surrounding land is fairly flat. On the opposite side of the floor is a tall, brown cornfield, ready for harvest I guess. A very small, clear stream flows between the floor and the field. I follow it for a way beside the floor and then straight into the edge of the field. It seems that my sisters are standing on the grass between the road and the field, though I don't see them clearly. End of Dream.
-2. I went back to sleep for a couple of hours and had another dream of the same place. But this time the house has walls, ceiling & roof. The kitchen is where all our stuff is now, still in containers. Mom & Dad are in there. In the next room one wall has no wallboard covering the bottom, about 2 feet above the floor. Instead, a bunch of large greeting cards are open, standing on the floor and leaning against the wall, but they don't completely hide the uncovered part of the wall. In the adjoining room on the back side of the house the outer wall has no wallboard at all. So I think about finishing the wall covering in the front room, then in the back room. I go to the kitchen & ask Mom where Dad & my sisters went, so they must have been there shortly before. Then I go outside in front of the house, where it's a sunny afternoon. I'm between the paved road and the house, facing the house. It's a small one-story white house and to the left is another similar house close to it. To the left of the second house is a side street and open land on the other side.
* Possible Meaning
* First Dream
Evening = ending of an experience
Floor = foundation
Containers of possessions = resources ready to be used
Mom = non-authoritarian authority
Flowing water = spirituality or morality
Cornfield = feed for animals = beasts = authoritarians
Sisters = non-authoritarian partners
* Second Dream
House = body or organization
Unfinished walls = incomplete organization
Asking about Dad & sisters = looking for productive authority and non-authoritarian partners
Sunny day = pleasant & comprehensible experience
Next-door house = a compatible organization
Street & open land = beginning to build a new town = new society
No cornfield = no longer feeding beasts = authoritarian society
* If anyone has better interpretations, it would be good to hear them.

[mague]

Alright.. as traditional firekeeper i guess its my duty

I ll ask the basic question.

How much volume does subconsciousness have ? How far does it strech out over consciousness ?

[Lloyd]

The subconscious is infinite. That's why it can answer questions so well.

[mague]

The subconscious is infinite. That's why it can answer questions so well.

Allright. I ll agree that subconscious is huge with a tendency to be infinit. There is no 100% proove that it is infinit, but its definetely huge.

So we have a brighter volume within a very large volume of unknown. I guess thats why we call intelligent people bright people. Some sort of light allows us to recognize "stuff" within the unknown. Consciousness then is nothing else then an enlightened part of the subconsciousness.

I d like to move it away from western psychology. Why not use Nagual for the probably endless subconsciousness and Tonal for the consciousness. We could use The Known and The Unknown as well...

However, The Known seems to be an elightened part of The Unknown. For the sake of demonstration we could imagine our selfes in a bright sphere that is hovering in a much larger dark sphere. All inside the bright sphere is recognizable and understandable. Looks pretty much like a sun in space btw.

In reality it isnt a perfect sphere. Actually, if we try to recognize it, consciousness can have infinite different shapes.
It could look like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... nebula.jpg

When i was a child the christian priests still taught about the dark spots on the soul. So called sins created dark spots on our bright soul. Today i understand that its no neccessarily a sin against god, but against my consciousness.

Regarding the topic it seems that the first step is to recreate consciousness so it is a coherent illuminated volume without any dark spots. The recreated coherence also removes the wierd visuals from dreams. Once coherent the dreamvisions are not "encoded" in symbols. They are clear, directly understandable pictures, messages.

The second step seem to be to understand that we probably will never grow large enough to expand infinit. Buddhist enligthenment is about "total illumination", but i want to neglegt this for now. I want to point at the old mages biggest problem. Once you understand that your energy enlightens an area you may choose the wrong path and become a greedy energy collector. Human sacrifies anyone ? The witch who stays young forever because she is bathing in the blood of virgins. Godkings and slaves...

I think history taught us that this is the wrong way. Personally i do not care about politics and ethics. Its about being smart or stupid. Period. There are better options. We are able to control the shape of the consciousness. By changing the shape we are able to enlighten parts of the unknown. Every shape is reaching a different part in the dark unknown and allows us to collect informations and gain knowledge. And this of course supports our evolution and growth.

One example of changing shape http://www.agnihotra.ch/wp-content/2008/11/yogi.jpg
Here is another http://www.arts.ri.gov/images/full%20body%20eagle.JPG

Applied to your 1st dream the question is what you could have done to look beyond the field of crops. What is out there ? Actually you began to move your "torch" but your self got scared abit. Thats why it reinstalled the reality it is used to, the house got its walls back. However, the greeting cards seem to represent itchy feet I wouldnt overrate parents. They may be there for a reason, but in general we cant escape our ancestors. We do not pop out of nowhere, we are all the result of many, many generations of females and males giving birth to children. At least our body is bound to this forever.

[flyingcloud]

Scene One:
A large clock with a space backdrop, all dark no stars
the clock is rimmed in black onyx almost indistinguishable from the background
the clock is at 11:56, I assume 23:56
4 minutes before midnight
4 minutes to 12
the clock is huge contemporary looking
like those at train stations or clock towers with elongated hyper cycloid hands
the whole scene seems two dimensional

Scene two:
Another clock, grandfather style without sun/moon motions
and a wooden rocking chair
almost in a room like setting very sterile looking w/o a ceiling just infinitely tall walls
no windows no doors
time is 4:12 or 16:12 feels like afternoon
oddly transposed hours and minutes from "universal clock" sort of
no people

that's it for now,

[Lloyd]

* Mague says consciousness and the subconscious might be equivalent to "The Known and The Unknown".
* Known means knowledge = awareness = consciousness. I don't see the subconscious as Unknown, or as non-consciousness. It's the repository of my consciousness. My consciousness is very limited, but the subconscious is vastly greater, and, if it's connected with all other subconsciouses, then it's vastly vaster. My memories are in my subconscious. I can only experience part of one memory at a time. Memories are consciousness. They don't become non-consciousness when they leave my consciousness. My consciousness is very limited, but presumably constantly but slowly expanding.
* I consider consciousness to be primary over all other existence, which other existence may be purely imaginary. All real existence may consist of units of consciousness. That includes space, time, mass etc.

* Can you explain how you get the interpretations of my dream?

[Lloyd]

* Flyingcloud, do you have any idea what your dream means?
* My amateur guess is that it means one day is coming to a close and a new day will soon begin. And then the new day is here and it's kind of the opposite. Instead of modern, dark and infinite space, it's old-fashioned, light and infinitely enclosed.
* Maybe you should ask for the meaning of the dream next time. When asking, I think Dr. McKenzie said to avoid asking for a choice between 2 or so different interpretations. I guess just ask instead for a better understanding.
* I don't know if it will require much patience to accomplish much via dreams, but Dr. McKenzie apparently accomplished major breakthroughs via dreams in understanding the cause of major depression and schizophrenia etc.
* I hope I'll persist at this, but I decided to just dream about one problem at a time, instead of two or more.

[soulsurvivor]

Inner self communicates by singing to me. As I was reading this thread, two different song lyrics kept being repeated:
"it's sad, it's sad, such a sad, sad, situation" and "here we go round in circles".

No explanation beyond that.

[bboyer]

Pierre Grimes
Philosophical Midwifery and Dreams: The Doorway Into Metaphysics
1st of 12 segments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ4U0e0S ... D5&index=0

[Tina]

Lloyd's suggested approach:

"I strongly desire to have a dream just before it's time to get up in the morning that tells me clearly how the Thunderbolts team can best work to solve the problem of bias against EU theory in the fields of astronomy, physics, and education. I wish to remember the answer when I wake and to write it down quickly and to share it on the Thunderbolts forum."


Lloyd - a slightly different approach:

1) Identify and Write out the problem: How do we overcome the bias against EU theory in the fields of astronomy, physics, and education > How do we overcome the scientific community's resistance to EU Theory? = How do we prove EU theory?

2) Make sure you cannot solve the problem CONSCIOUSLY (which we have not to date). Do this by writing pro's & con's (in two columns) with reasons for and against taking certain actions to solve problem. eg Write a letter to a scientific authority (PRO) v's They will dismiss all evidence and arguments.(CONS). If no solution comes -

3) Ask your SUBCONSCIOUS COMPUTER to solve the problem for you. Then forget it.....give SC time to work through the problem.

Set your subconscious computer to work and just wait for the answer to come.
(Edison, Einstein, James Watt and numerous scientists and inventors have handed over their problems to the subconscious mind)

Ill give it a go too!

[Lloyd]

* Soulsurvivor, it makes sense that song could help find answers to questions in the same way as dreams, because the right brain is more involved with creativity and holistic thinking, which suggests a closer connection to the subconscious.
* Thanks for everyone's input. I don't know how much time I'll have to work on this for now, as I hope to move to New Hampshire soon. But I'll have time to read posts here and maybe make a few comments for a while.

[mague]

* Mague says consciousness and the subconscious might be equivalent to "The Known and The Unknown".
* Known means knowledge = awareness = consciousness. I don't see the subconscious as Unknown, or as non-consciousness. It's the repository of my consciousness. My consciousness is very limited, but the subconscious is vastly greater, and, if it's connected with all other subconsciouses, then it's vastly vaster. My memories are in my subconscious. I can only experience part of one memory at a time. Memories are consciousness. They don't become non-consciousness when they leave my consciousness. My consciousness is very limited, but presumably constantly but slowly expanding.

This is the mainstream view of things. It works well in psychotherapy. It works well if a cause of "problems" has sunk or was pushed into subconscious.

But for your topic it wont help. You cant get anything out of the subcon. that wasnt there earlier. You could only find answers you knewed allready but then forgot them. I think this is pretty much how mainstream psychology works.

I wanted to offer the ancient way of vision. A subconsciouses the size of the dark and unknow part of the universe holds way more answers.

* I consider consciousness to be primary over all other existence, which other existence may be purely imaginary. All real existence may consist of units of consciousness. That includes space, time, mass etc.

Cant say much about it. I do know though that those using dream visions look at it the other way round. The unknow is the base, the known is the part we are able to recognize. The universe is there, no matter if we are able to recognize it or not.

* Can you explain how you get the interpretations of my dream?

Not explain. The most explainable is the obvious vector of your movement. It is the thing that moves most in your dream. There is the river as well and it would be good if you could remember which direction it flew. Thats all that really moved and is almost a physical vector. Arent the driving forces the big topic always ? Gods, deamons, electrons and gravity ?

[Lloyd]

* Mague, I don't find a river mentioned in my dream.
* You say:

You cant get anything out of the subcon. that wasnt there earlier. You could only find answers you knewed allready but then forgot them.

* My understanding is that we aren't conscious of most of what we perceive. Most of our perceptions go directly into our subconsciouses without our ever being aware of them. Our subconscious does most of our perceiving and that's why we get intuitions about things sometimes. We know something in our subconscious, but our conscious minds don't know what that something is, unless we get help to discover it.
* You know that you can focus on something and become oblivious to everything else to a great extent. But the subconscious never becomes oblivious to anything. When you skim through a book, you may consciously notice a few phrases, but your subconscious devours each whole page, if it's clear enough. Hypnosis seems to prove these things.