The Primer Fields?

[nick c]

I see the question this way, perhaps this is wrong?......
Yes, they are sides of the same coin, that is why "electromagnetic" is one word. However, it seems to me that there is a horse and carriage relationship and in the context of that analogy, electricity is the horse. If you have a commercial electromagnet such as might be used in a junk yard. You turn on the switch, that is initiate an electric current and you have a powerful magnet, turn off the switch, that is stop the electric current and the magnet is no more. While magnetic fields do create electric currents, the original magnetic field was created by an electric current, now that begs the question: can an electric current be created without an a priori magnetic field? I think that the answer is yes, the key being charge separation. Plasmas are characterized by some degree of charge separation, how do they get that way? Certainly a neutral gas exposed to a suitable EM field will become plasma but that puts us back to the chicken/egg riddle. I would say that other non electrical forces can create plasmas such as heat and gravity. For instance heating of a neutral gas will turn it to plasma, that is create charge separation. This will initiate the formation of electric currents within the plasma and create magnetic fields. As far as gravity goes, this involves a little more hypothetical speculation (Thornhill); but it seems that if you have a large enough amount of neutral matter there is going to be gravitational attraction forming lumps, the more massive protons tend to center within the newly formed plasma, with the electrons moving outward (see Thornhill) the neutral gas is now charge separated with the associated plasma phenomena such as currents, magnetic fields, double layers, etc. Further collapse is prevented by electrostatic repulsion between the positively charged protons, preventing gravitational monstrosities such as black holes, neutron stars, and a central stellar nuclear fusion furnace.
In reality there is not that much (percentage) of the universe that is not already in the plasma state and electric and magnetic fields are always associated together.
So yes they are two sides to the same coin, but I think that the statement that "electric currents create magnetic fields" is valid. The challenge then is to show a magnetic field that does not have its' origin in an electric current.

As far as the chicken or the egg question goes I think that there is an answer to that, but that is a topic for another discussion

[Goldminer]

The challenge then is to show a magnetic field that does not have its' origin in an electric current

Now I may be wrong, too, but my point is that you will never (at least none have been discovered yet) find a magnetic monopole. Excluding the debris of particle collisions, which only exist momentarily, the smallest electric monopole that exists also surrounds a tiny particle of matter. The smallest magnetic dipole is found surrounding these same tiny forms of matter. As you imply, it is these tiny fields, associated with the tiny particles of matter, that when clumped into large groups, form the massive fields we encounter in the cosmos. Everything scales up from the tiny particles.

The energy we call electromagnetic radiation, on the other hand, does not contain matter. It is supposedly made up of oscillating electric and magnetic fields, in the form of waves that travel very fast. This radiation is not affected by the strong macro electric and magnetic fields that it travels through. The only time it is detected is when it reacts with the tiny particles of matter, for instance; a ccd chip, antenna, or retina, that turns the radiation into electrical pulses. This leads me to believe that the energy transmission process only incites the electromagnetic properties of matter at the emission and absorption of the energy, and the "E" and "B" fields are the result of physically vibrating the tiny particles of matter we call atoms, protons and electrons. In other words, the radiation may be actually a series of inertial pulses distorting the aether as they vibrate through it, thus creating the "electromagnetic" part only when being detected.

[kevin]

This needs to be on this thread also,
http://rexresearch.com/brown5/ttbrown5.htm

Instead of focussing upon matter, I would strongly recommend to think on something, and that is memory.
Try to think of an atom as a collection of memories uniquely arranged to create that atom.
The resistance created is what is called mass and matter.
Then think of scalar fields that symbiotically interact with all of memory.
If a balanced implosion and outrush exist relative to each memory, then the memory will remember to be.
Mass is nothing more than super compressed memory, it is created into 3D by implosion.
There was never any such stupid thing as a big bang, there is a continuum of creation and dissolvement relative to the rate of the flows of duality of spin attracted and repulsed in an electric universe.
Kevin

[GaryN]

This leads me to believe that the energy transmission process only incites the electromagnetic properties of matter at the emission and absorption of the energy, and the "E" and "B" fields are the result of physically vibrating the tiny particles of matter we call atoms, protons and electrons. In other words, the radiation may be actually a series of inertial pulses distorting the aether as they vibrate through it, thus creating the "electromagnetic" part only when being detected.

That is fitting in with the idea that the transverse waves, say reflected light from a planet, only travel where there is matter to interact with, meaning the extent of the coronasphere. Past that, they become spacial solitons, which can then travel the long distances in the vacuum, if you accept the vacuum to be a very dense non-linear medium. Shall we call it the Aether? The solitons are focused at the other end by a reversal of the process.

Optical Spatial Solitons and Their Interactions: Universality and Diversity.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... _Diversity

Nonlinear Continuum Mechanics, Electrodynamics and Ether Theories
http://www.alexander-unzicker.de/contmech.html

On the Nonlinear Continuum Mechanics of Space and the Notion of Luminiferous Medium
http://arxiv.org/abs/0804.4253


These links are to do with a naked eye visibility of Mars theory I'm involved with, a bit off topic I suppose, but maybe interesting. All planets and Moons will have a Hydrogen corona, producing the UV Lyman emissions.
Mars Hydrogen Corona
http://www.mikechaffin.net/research/mar ... en-corona/

This mission could provide some interesting results.
Tha Maven Mission
http://lasp.colorado.edu/home/maven/

[Sparky]

electric and magnetic fields are always associated together.-----

Agreed. We can accept that as a fact.

I think that the statement that "electric currents create magnetic fields" is valid.

It does not follow. there was no sound argument or data to support that conclusion. The illustration of a electromagnet's switch supplying "current" is not justified, as the switch only completes a circuit.

The challenge then is to show a magnetic field that does not have its' origin in an electric current.

We have already established the fact that magnetic fields and current are always associated. So, to search for a magnetic field where there is no associated current is futile. And we would end up using circular reasoning.

We could put out the challenge to find an electric current that did not have it's origin in a magnetic field. Difficult to prove a negative....and futile.

-the statement that "electric currents create magnetic fields" is valid--

Is not incorrect, just not very precise. I suspect that it does help with the maths; to break it all down and juggle the components to investigate possibilities.

butmemberireallydonno....

[tayga]

I’ve now watched all 3 videos and I’m left a bit disappointed. I think the presentations are slick and the means of presenting ideas already held is novel but I’m not sure that the new thinking extends beyond the morphology of the fields. There is no attempt to explain where the fields come from and this leaves the door open to the view, already argued, that electricity is the prior factor. Whereas I couldn’t disagree with any of the cosmological argument, and think the morphological analysis of astronomical objects is compelling, I can’t see why LaPoint doesn’t admit that the bowl shaped fields are probably associated with pinches and plasmoids.

There are a few more points I noted.

I haven’t completely thought through the implicit assumptions in the way he depicts the photons of different wavelength in Part 3 but scaling up the fields as he has done, without changing the shape, is misleading as it implies amplitude is tied to wavelength. The fields of photons with longer or shorter wavelength should be more or less distended in the z direction, surely?

When considering destructive interference, he states that the fields cancel each other out and the photon ‘emits no light’. He also talks about photons shining and dimming. This is circular. Do photons emit photons?

Whereas he says that the waves don’t really exist he then goes on to say that fields do but he doesn’t say what the fields are made of or how they interact with each other or the edges of slits.

When explaining the anatomy of a photon he describes the flow or energy but doesn’t offer any explanation for what energy is or what makes it flow.

I think the double slit experiment, as illustrated, is a fudge. Is the field really sliced like an apple with part of it going through each slit? What happens to the slices of field that don’t through the slit? Do they end up in a pile on the floor?

I’m very disappointed he’s not going to produce any more videos at the moment. Maybe he would have cleared up some of the questions.

[Goldminer]

This leads me to believe that the energy transmission process only incites the electromagnetic properties of matter at the emission and absorption of the energy, and the "E" and "B" fields are the result of physically vibrating the tiny particles of matter we call atoms, protons and electrons. In other words, the radiation may be actually a series of inertial pulses distorting the aether as they vibrate through it, thus creating the "electromagnetic" part only when being detected.

That is fitting in with the idea that the transverse waves, say reflected light from a planet, only travel where there is matter to interact with, meaning the extent of the coronasphere. Past that, they become spacial solitons, which can then travel the long distances in the vacuum, if you accept the vacuum to be a very dense non-linear medium. Shall we call it the Aether? The solitons are focused at the other end by a reversal of the process.

Optical Spatial Solitons and Their Interactions: Universality and Diversity.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... _Diversity

Nonlinear Continuum Mechanics, Electrodynamics and Ether Theories
http://www.alexander-unzicker.de/contmech.html

On the Nonlinear Continuum Mechanics of Space and the Notion of Luminiferous Medium
http://arxiv.org/abs/0804.4253


These links are to do with a naked eye visibility of Mars theory I'm involved with, a bit off topic I suppose, but maybe interesting. All planets and Moons will have a Hydrogen corona, producing the UV Lyman emissions.
Mars Hydrogen Corona
http://www.mikechaffin.net/research/mar ... en-corona/

This mission could provide some interesting results.
The Maven Mission:
http://lasp.colorado.edu/home/maven/

Thanks for these links, Gary. They may be off the topic for this thread, but they are right on topic for my agenda . . . Oops, I admitted that I have an agenda! Well, what the hell, let's admit it, both you and I have an agenda, along with most serious advocates of the TBolt Forum! As long as we do not force it down other's throats, I think it is acceptable. Actually I doubt your post is off topic.

Anyhow, I suggest that you have the role of "solitons" somewhat mixed up. Traveling waves travel. Soliton waves move around, and not necessarily rectilinearly, although some of the articles refer to super narrow beams. Light, itself, (the wavelets) propagates in concentric expanding spheres at c, whether "electromagnetically" or in the form of an "inertial aethereal vibration." Light, under special conditions, form solitons, which do not "travel" at c. (I put the parentheses around "travel" because with light waves, the medium does not travel, it only oscillates; the wave itself is what scoots along.) Now, these "light solitons" are not the same as the "matter solitons" that some, including me, picture the sub atomic particles as being. (both matter and light, in my brain kitchen, are formed out of the same aether.) Subatomic matter is quite indestructible, whereas light, being energy, gets emitted and absorbed. When this matter absorbs energy, it occupies additional space, etc. Matter solitons vibrate in a completely different mode than light solitons.

"That is fitting in with the idea that the transverse waves, say reflected light from a planet, only travel where there is matter to interact with, meaning the extent of the coronasphere. Past that, they become spacial solitons, which can then travel the long distances in the vacuum, if you accept the vacuum to be a very dense non-linear medium. Shall we call it the Aether? The solitons are focused at the other end by a reversal of the process."

I suggest the "solitons" are the transverse waves formed at each end of the transmission process, and traveling waves are the intermediaries.

In my pinion, (based on the evidence I have collected) the atmosphere diffuses the incoming sunlight, (diffusion being a form of reflection) which causes shadows to be washed out to an extent. As discussed elsewhere on TBolt Forum, the blueness of the sky is probably caused by the distributed electrical potential constantly present above us. However, your ideas give me cause for hesitation, though I doubt the atmosphere provides the necessary conditions for "solitons" to be the primary reason we "see" things. I think we "see" things because the molecules in our retinas form the "solitons" of transverse waves, enabling the light to "become" electrical impulses.

Solitons forming in oceanic surface waves have overturned quite large vessels.

This article is a really good, (excellent, even) article! In fact, I think it verifies the principles I discuss in the "Silly Einstein" thread (in a perverse sort of way . . . ) By perverse, I mean they demonstrate (without realizing it) that a principle definition is overlooked all the time by most who try to figure out the operation of "Relativity." Their logic is quite impeccable, except for the fact that they have reified the idea of "reference frames!" I better take the rest of that discussion up over on the "Silly Einstein" thread.

In regards the MAVEN Mission: Hydrogen, being the lightest of the elements, always migrates to the uppermost atmosphere in the gravitation fields of all agglomerations of cosmic matter, therefore, is constantly floating away from them out of the exosphere. Thus it must be constantly replenished. Noctilucent clouds are evidence of water ice entering the atmosphere. I had, at one time, long ago, a whole internet site of evidence that ice chunks entering from above the ozone layer poke holes in it. Can't locate it now . . .

[Dynamix]

Walter Russell’s book “The Universal One”

http://www.gifnet.org/logo.htm

Jean Naudin

hmm something very familiar to Mr Lapoint - very much older too. Originality does exist?

[alain]

Curious that Lapoint has canceled the rest of his PF series. What to make of it?

[Sparky]

How do you know that?

[alain]

http://www.youtube.com/user/davelapoint777

David LaPoint
The rest of the PF series has been canceled. I will leave the existing videos up. I am just too busy with work to continue any further work on these videos.
Sorry to disappoint you.
Cheers, Dave

[Dynamix]

Further to that: http://electric-cosmos.org/sun.htm

" The Sun may be powered, not from within itself, but from outside, by the electric (Birkeland) currents that flow in our arm of our galaxy as they do in all galaxies. This possibility - that the Sun may be externally powered by its galactic environment"

Is there not cross over here of information to this forums Electric Universe discussions? (In regards to Primer fields information on sun formation and how it powers itself).

[Dynamix]

Further to this thread, has anyone looked at the forums here: http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... =3&t=10787

Leo Vuyk has a most interesting post on the same concept but referring to Birkeland currents and work done in the past by Kiril Chukanov.

[rekamlias]

I found this Columbia Shuttle experiment that broke a tether.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=pO3 ... =endscreen

Look at the tether sitting in space creating a dozens of magnetic fields by the electricity it is creating. Imagine some particles are magnetized like the nonmagnetic pall was repelled in PF3 video. Look at the debris flying around choke rings across containment domes and shooting out in straight lines right out of the top of fields.

I find the possibilities exciting.

[justcurious]

So, did that Primer Fields dude finally share his "secret formula" or is it still "just a show"?