Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Locked
User avatar
MGmirkin
Moderator
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by MGmirkin » Tue May 27, 2008 10:25 pm

(Cartwheel Coronal Mass Ejection; With a Side of Backflip?)
http://digg.com/space/Cartwheel_Coronal_Mass_Ejection
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... eelcme.htm

Remind me what we pay these people for again (at taxpayer expense, undoubtedly)?
May 27, 2008: Imagine a billion-ton cloud of gas launching itself off the surface of the sun and then ... doing a cartwheel. That's exactly what happened on April 9, 2008, when a coronal mass ejection or "CME" pirouetted over the sun's limb in full view of an international fleet of spacecraft. Even veteran solar physicists were amazed.

But that's not all[!] While one part of the cloud did a cartwheel, another part did a backflip at the same time. As strange as it sounds, this could be the normal way solar explosions unfold, say researchers analyzing the data.

"What a rare and exciting observation," says Ed DeLuca of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA) ... "It is showing us the secret inner workings of a process called 'magnetic reconnection' central to solar flares and CMEs."
Come again? "Magnetic whatnow?" Ohh, this can't be good... Okay, okay, I won't interrupt, maybe they'll explain later...
These videos reveal a billion tons of hot, magnetized gas twirling at speeds in excess of 1000 km/s. The cartwheel (left; recorded by the X-Ray Telescope onboard Japan's Hinode spacecraft) spins one way while the backflip (right; recorded by UV cameras onboard NASA's TRACE spacecraft) spins the other.

How can an explosion spin in two directions at once?

[...]

"We think we are seeing a twisted 'flux tube' of solar magnetism unfurl. One end of the tube spins clockwise, the other counterclockwise." This unfurling action pumps energy into the explosion, heating the CME and propelling it away from the sun.

To better understand the process, rummage through your desk and pull out a rubber band.
*Rummages*
*Rummages some more*
Apparently I don't keep any rubber bands in my desk! Probably on account of my habit of flicking them at coworkers...

I guess we'll have to skip the rest of that thought experiment. Besides, "magnetic reconnection" is bogus anyway:

(Real Properties of Electromagnetic Fields and Plasma in the Cosmos)
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007ITPS...35..822S
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_ ... er=4287080

Just in case anyone wants to look up how magnetic fields ACTUALLY behave (unfortunately it's not a "free" article, but it's informative nonetheless, if you can get your hands on a copy)...
Magnetic flux tubes on the sun behave a lot like rubber bands, researchers believe. They get twisted and knotted and filled with latent energy, until—crack!—the field lines rupture, producing an explosion more powerful than a hundred million hydrogen bombs. Remember the rubber band untwisting as it hurtled back toward your fingertips? There you have the cartwheel and backflip, writ small.

The CME, however, was merely the beginning. "The really interesting developments came later," says solar physicist Leon Golub of the CfA. Hours after the initial blast, the ruptured magnetic flux tube began to heal itself. Rubber bands never do this trick, but magnetic fields do because, basically, Nature abhors a broken flux tube. Thanks to the high-resolution of Hinode's X-Ray Telescope, says Golub, "we have witnessed a phase of magnetic reconnection never before seen in such detail."

The healing process began with the formation of a tall X-ray spike jutting out of the blast site. "This is a current sheet seen edge-on," says Golub. Current sheets are where magnetic fields of opposite polarity meet and rejoin. Hinode's X-ray movie shows material left behind by the CME flowing back down into the region from above: click to play. The current sheet seems to guide the flow as the area reloads for possible future explosions.
And herein lies the rub... They have the right term, but apparently refuse to (I assume) either understand it, or explain it properly...

Once more, in slow motion (can you identify the train wreck as it happens?):
"This is a current sheet seen edge-on," says Golub. Current sheets are where magnetic fields of opposite polarity meet and rejoin [...] The current sheet seems to guide the flow as the area reloads for possible future explosions.
This is a current sheet... The key word is... (No not "is!" Wouldn't get very far in life without saying "is," now would you?)
"current!"

*Twang!*
*Astronomers collectively scream...* Suffice it to say it is the one word heliophysicists cannot hear!

This is a silly place! (Okay, enough Monty Python and the Holy Grail references for now...)

Seriously, the key word in "current sheet" is current! As in an "electric current."

And yet, they explain it only through roundabout descriptions of incidental magnetic fields, failing to mention electric currents at all (except passingly in mentioning the current sheet, then reverting to "magnetic-only" language).

However, they appear to note that the current sheet plays a pivotal role. If only they would recognize the fact that what they're actually saying is that the electric currents underlying the "current" sheet must also then be implicated in playing a pivotal role. There is no current sheet without the current!
How significant are the data? The CfA researchers are planning an entire workshop dedicated to the study of this one CME. They and others will bring together data from a fleet of spaceships including Hinode, TRACE, SOHO, STEREO and RHESSI to gain a more complete understanding of solar eruptions.

Their conclusions will go far beyond the sun, however. Magnetic reconnection is a process fundamental to many realms of astrophysics. "It happens in black holes, pulsars, active galactic nuclei, planetary magnetospheres—you name it," says DeLuca. "The sun is a great big laboratory where we can watch it happen."

And who wouldn't want to watch a billion-ton cartwheel?
How significant is the data? A great question. If they'll recognize the pivotal role of electric currents in the pivotal structure they've identified, perhaps they can open up the question and consider the notion of "stellar electrics" (or whatever you want to call it).

As they say, the implications go beyond just the sun. Magnetic fields and filamentary / helical structures in plasma are seen all over the place in the cosmos: from "magnetic flux ropes" (Birkeland currents or "field-aligned currents") to "black hole" jets, to the Double-Helix Nebula, to the filaments of plasma along which galaxies are born like beads on a string.

The implications will certainly be interesting, one way or the other... Especially if they figure out it may not be the BYPRODUCT magnetic fields, but the PRIMARY electric currents calling the shots...

I figure that by trying explain the whole shebang by way of a byproduct, they've "put the cart[wheel] before the horse," so to speak.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

seasmith
Posts: 2815
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:59 pm

Magnetic ReConnection ReDux

Post by seasmith » Tue May 27, 2008 10:26 pm

Image
The CME, however, was merely the beginning. "The really interesting developments came later," says solar physicist Leon Golub of the CfA. Hours after the initial blast, the ruptured magnetic flux tube began to heal itself. Rubber bands never do this trick, but magnetic fields do because, basically, Nature abhors a broken flux tube. Thanks to the high-resolution of Hinode's X-Ray Telescope, says Golub, "we have witnessed a phase of magnetic reconnection never before seen in such detail."
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... ist1066595

w/o comment
(FMV 5-27-08: Merged with thread on the same topic posted at the same time.)
(Originally posted by seasmith on Tue May 27, 2008 10:24 pm)

User avatar
MGmirkin
Moderator
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by MGmirkin » Tue May 27, 2008 10:35 pm

Must've hit the submit button just about the same time, eh?

~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

seasmith
Posts: 2815
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:59 pm

Re: Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by seasmith » Tue May 27, 2008 10:36 pm

Michael,

Oops, we posted at the same time.
Hats off to the bionic indexer.

:D

User avatar
MGmirkin
Moderator
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by MGmirkin » Tue May 27, 2008 11:21 pm

seasmith wrote:Michael,

Oops, we posted at the same time.
Hats off to the bionic indexer.

:D
Ohh no, bionic brain failing... Must... fi-ii-nnn-dddd... Sus-ss-sssten-nnance...

;)

~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

User avatar
junglelord
Posts: 3693
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:39 am
Location: Canada

Re: Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by junglelord » Wed May 28, 2008 3:19 pm

Well even as an amature astronomer and avid reader of astronomy articles and magazines, they never played up magnetic reconnection so much as thermonuclear ideas. I have too say the majority of the magnetic reconnection was new to me when I came here. I have to say that when they talk about it, well it makes no sense. I cannot for the life of me get my head around what they think they are describing? I know its wrong, but I mean, it makes no sense.
:?
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

User avatar
Tina
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:33 pm
Location: NSW Australia

Re: Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by Tina » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:16 am

MGmirkin wrote:
To better understand the process, rummage through your desk and pull out a rubber band.

*Rummages*
*Rummages some more*
Apparently I don't keep any rubber bands in my desk! Probably on account of my habit of flicking them at coworkers...

I guess we'll have to skip the rest of that thought experiment. Besides, "magnetic reconnection" is bogus anyway:

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
Oh yes! The Elastic Band Theory of Astrophysics. Also I submit this link as proof that it is forbidden to say :( ELECTRIC CURRENT. I wonder how many euphamisms are there for ELECTRIC CURRENTS :roll:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0804/08040303

longcircuit
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:59 am

Where's the dang cartwheel?

Post by longcircuit » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:15 am

I'll be the first to admit I often have trouble seeing what's directly in front of my face, but I've watched that NASA video several times and haven't yet seen the CME do a backflip or a cartwheel or even a pirouette. Is there a point in the timecode someone can point to as the moment when the solar gymnastics takes place?

longcircuit

User avatar
substance
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by substance » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:01 pm

With such expressions lately (and it`s not only about this article) most scientists are better suited as sports commentators... :lol:
My personal blog about science, technology, society and politics. - Putredo Mundi

User avatar
Tina
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:33 pm
Location: NSW Australia

Re: Where's the dang cartwheel?

Post by Tina » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:22 am

longcircuit wrote:..... I've watched that NASA video several times and haven't yet seen the CME do a backflip or a cartwheel or even a pirouette. Is there a point in the timecode someone can point to as the moment when the solar gymnastics takes place?

longcircuit
The NASA video sure runs at top speed. But the magic cartwheel moment is just not there.....its just NASA doing cartwheels to explain the phenomena.

longcircuit
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:59 am

Re: Where's the dang cartwheel?

Post by longcircuit » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:33 am

Oh, for crying out loud. Would someone please bitch-slap me for my literalness?
I should have guessed mgmirkin was pulling our collective leg. One point to him.
How NASA sees magnetic reconnection in what appears to be a garden-variety CME is beyond me. (Before I embarrass myself further, let me ask: that is a "garden-variety CME," isn't it?)

longcircuit

User avatar
MGmirkin
Moderator
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Where's the dang cartwheel?

Post by MGmirkin » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:30 am

longcircuit wrote:Oh, for crying out loud. Would someone please bitch-slap me for my literalness?
I should have guessed mgmirkin was pulling our collective leg. One point to him.
How NASA sees magnetic reconnection in what appears to be a garden-variety CME is beyond me. (Before I embarrass myself further, let me ask: that is a "garden-variety CME," isn't it?)

longcircuit
Hey, don't blame me (no shooting of the messenger!). I was just quoting THEM (NASA)... They said both cartwheel AND backflip in the first post's quote!

(Cartwheel Coronal Mass Ejection; 2nd paragraph!)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... eelcme.htm
But that's not all[!] While one part of the cloud did a cartwheel, another part did a backflip at the same time. As strange as it sounds, this could be the normal way solar explosions unfold, say researchers analyzing the data.
Now, tell them to "pull the other one!"

*Wink* ;)

Regards,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

seasmith
Posts: 2815
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:59 pm

Re: Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by seasmith » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:34 pm

~

Image

These new release Hinode movies of Solar Pole action are well worth a gander !!

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... ist1066595
:?

User avatar
StefanR
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:31 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by StefanR » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:22 am

Good find and nice movie!

And surprise suprise, the scientists are surprised.....again.
Solar astronomers have seen prominences like this before, thousands of them, but never so clearly. The new view is challenging long-held ideas: In the past, researchers thought of prominences as mainly static structures, held motionless above the surface of the sun by magnetic force fields. "Now we know those ideas are too simple. Just watch the movie!"

Berger lists the surprises:


1. "There are dark tadpole-shaped plumes rising up from the base of the prominence. These have never been seen before and we're not sure what they are."

2. "Narrow streams of plasma at the top of the prominence are constantly falling back to the bottom, much like a waterfall." Mysteriously, the streams plummet faster than ambient magnetic forces seem to allow1.

3. "Finally, within the wall itself, there are swirls and vortices" bearing an eerie resemblance to van Gogh's surreal Starry Night.

The inescapable conclusion: "There's no such thing as a static prominence." Furthermore, he says, "we don't understand how the sun's magnetic field is doing all these things."

.
I really really do hope this guy is mocking us, because this isn't funny anymore.
Then again, this level of ignorance is hilarious :lol:
These must have their collective heads wrapped inside a magnetic monopole, or at least their brains must have the same level of reality as such monopoles.
Thinking that prominances are static structures held motionless above the sun by magnetic fields. This can't be for real.
Bless Hinode for giving them some light to shine inside their non-electric minds.
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

User avatar
MGmirkin
Moderator
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Magnetic Fields Doing Cartwheels on the Sun? Oy!

Post by MGmirkin » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:32 am

StefanR wrote:I really really do hope this guy is mocking us, because this isn't funny anymore.
*Laughing heartily as he reads the quotes from the article...*

Ohh yes it is! :lol:
StefanR wrote:Then again, this level of ignorance is hilarious :lol:
Precisely! :D

But, then, I'm into irony...
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests