The God Particle

[junglelord]

http://www.williamhenry.net/art_dis-cerning.html
Oh man I cannot help but laugh


Particles? Mass Particles?


Hey I got an idea, imagine if particles did not exist, only waves of shimmering clouds, and that Mass was a fundamental dimension, linear in aspect and phi is implicit for its function. OK, OK, I stole it from APM

[shrunkensimon]

I wish i understood enough technical knowledge to throw this stuff back in peoples faces. All i know is that this search for the "God particle" is nothing more than a modern day holy grail quest.. It does amuse me though. At least the Holy Grail was supposedly something tangible you could hold with your hands. Here we are talking about things at a scale that is all but invisible to the naked eye..

Ironic isn't it. You would think that if one was going to look for anything to do with God, one would just look around them, or look up to the heavens (sky) as the ancients used to do. But nooooo, we are looking for something on a scale we can't even really appreciate. It seems totally ridiuclous to me anyway.. its like these people are in some kind of "shock" and haven't quite figured out whats going on around them, so they curl up into a ball or something lol..

[StevenO]

I am a little concerned about this cosmological alignment thingy though:

At sunrise on December 21, 2012 for the first time in 26,000 years the Sun rises to conjunct the intersection of the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic. According to the Mayans this date will mark the end of one world and the beginning of another.

Do we have any confirmation of that? You know when waves align, very powerful things can happen.
Is that the reason that the sun seems to be getting more energetic...a cosmic resonance event in the making

[shrunkensimon]

The alignment is already here. Back in December, several planets, including Earth, aligned with the Galactic Centre. The thing about 2012 being about Galactic alignment is poorly understood, and is promoted as fact. The fact is, its happening right now! The window of alignment is something like 15 years or so, so we may well have already gone more than halfway.

The 2012 thing, in regards to the Mayans enddate (which is actually 2011), has very little to do with celestial alignments. They are not the dominating factor in all of this. I know alot of people will argue otherwise, but unforunately people have only read stuff on the internet, and alot of it is the same rehashed half truths. The Mayan calendar charts the evolution of consciousness of the human species, and this is not based on mechanical properties, ie celestial bodies. They do figure in the picture, but thats not what it is about.

[nick c]

Hi JL, StevenO, Shrunkensimon
wow! that article made me cringe too
The ancients were talking about wormholes? alignments with the center of the galaxy? Something is really wrong with the authors' reasoning, here is my take. He is combining wrong science with wrong comparative mythology and getting a predictable wrong result.
Most readers here would agree that wormholes are nothing but a mathematical fantasy.
As far as alignment with the galactic center, whether we are presently aligned or not is irrelevant, the Mayans were not talking about galactic alignments!

This rare galactic alignment is referred to as the Cosmic Cross. It’s considered to be an embodiment of the Sacred Tree, The Tree of Life, a tree remembered as sacred in all the world's spiritual traditions.

The Mayans (and other ancients) were not aware of galaxies, in fact the first humans to understand the meaning of 'galaxy' lived in the 20th century AD. This is a typical modern (with a New Age mystical slant) misinterpretation of myth, attaching our own metaphorical meanings, when in reality a different celestial order is being described. The 'universe' and 'alignments' described by the Mayans (it should be familiar to those reading Dave Talbott's entries in the "Origin of Myth" forum) is none other than the Polar Configuration. The center of this Mayan cosmos is not the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, but the rather the pivot around which the all (celestial sphere as viewed from Earth) was centered. The great god governing from his stationary throne.

the Mayans say from out of this tree/star alignment comes a serpent rope with an enlightened being named Nine Winds or Quetzalcoatl riding upon it and a blessed substance’ or ‘sap’ the Mayans called itz (literally ‘the blessed substance’) apparently spewing from it. color emphasis added

The number of Talbott's archetypes contained in the above short quote is startling:
-the world tree...the polar column- aka world mountain, stairway to heaven, axis mundi, etc etc
-alignment of stars....the Great Conjunction
-serpent...a universal cometary image
-rope...often used to describe birkeland currents
-substance spewing forth, see:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... f=13&t=410
-Quetzalcoatl...the original creator (Saturn) king who had his heart ripped out from him which became the feathered serpent (the comet Venus) memorialized in a ceremony which the Mayans ritualistically repeated with human sacrifices, a compulsive reenactment of that traumatic event. see:
http://saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thoth27.txt

While the sacrificee was held on the Chac Mool (stone alter) the Mayan Priest would carve out his still beating heart with a stone knife, holding the heart aloft he would throw it at the crowd...Doesn't sound to me like the work of an "enlightened" people possessing divine wisdom whose meaning modern man has lost. Not that I am picking on the Mayans, this type of schizoid behaviour appears in numerous forms in all ancient cultures. Doomsday fear, and brutal ritualistic reenactments of the cosmic drama of our past, are ingrained in our social institutions and still profoundly affect us today.
Attaching superior mystical or philosophical knowledge to ancient man is wishful thinking on the part of modern man. I personally doubt if the most ancient of those cultures were even capable of such comtemplations, as I believe that conciousness is by and large a post catastrophic and relatively recent development, a la Julian Jaynes.
So what are the roots of this 'New Age' mysticism, that there is some sort of concordance of ancient wisdom beyond the understanding of modern man, who has become unnaturally divorced from the spiritual connections to his environment? It is the recycling of the [url2=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage]Myth of the Noble Savage[/url2] which in turn is the yearning for the return to innocence and the lost 'Golden Age.'
Some of the ways various cultures have expressed the destruction of the 'Golden Age', expulsion from the Garden of Eden, and the subsequent Doomsday threats, is that man is being punished for his sins, or at the mercy of the whims of capricious gods, rather than realizing that he is just a victim of an impersonal natural process. Primitive (and/or ancient) man is incorrectly held up to an unrealistic standard- that he is somehow living (or lived) in a more natural and desirable state and privy to hidden truths of nature. When in reality, primitive (and/or ancient) man lives/lived (thru no fault of his own) in a brutal Malthusian world of self imposed repressive and ritualistic social institutions, tribal warfare, pestilence, natural disaster, and famine. Having been cast out of the garden, he too, yearns for that lost innocent time, the same as his 'civilized' or modern brothers. Forecasts, prophecies, and visions of impending doomsday are memories of our past projected into the future.

Nick

[shrunkensimon]

Hi Nick,

I agree with most of what you said. However, just because they appeared to be barbaric, doesn't mean they were not capable of gaining great insights about the workings of nature, or properties of nature, and so forth. Im not sure if you're aware of this, but i think its quite fascinating, and i certainly consider it a possibility;

Were the Mayans aware of acoustical engineering physics/waveguides?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRDy31O9czs

I should add, that it has been discovered, although not widely known, that at a temple in Egypt (possibly more than just this temple), there are "round the corner joints" in the stone. These are intentional constructions that act as some form of waveguide, although the researcher said he was not certain if it was an acoustical waveguide or not..

The "World Tree" as i understand it, still exists today, and is a fundamental part of the Mayan calendar, and its charting of the evolution of human consciousness. It is possible, although i can not prove it, that it still exists today as some form of plasma but in non-arc mode in the atmosphere. Dr Calleman in his books about the calendar and 2012, states that this oscillating "world tree" is responsible for the motions in left brain right brain consciousness displayed by humans, and is what the Mayan calendar accurately was predicting (left brain vs right brain mechanics, applied on a global scale, based upon the division line created by the World Tree Axis)

I thought i should copy this over from another thread, because its relevant to what i just suggested. Its taken from one of Callemans books im reading at the moment;

"What we have is a series of spheres, of both geological and an atmospheric nature, that all share Earth's midpoint as their center. These spheres are probably the most significant boundaries between the diffrerent concentric segments that constitute the Earth. In more esoteric language, they could probably be called ethereal bodies.

Magnetopause/Plasma Sheet 60,000Km -- 0.8 Hz -- DELTA/Deep Sleep
Outer Van Allen Belt 25,000Km -- 2 Hz --DELTA/Deep Sleep
Inner Van Allen Belt 12,000Km -- 4 Hz -- THETA/Light Sleep
Earths Crust and Mantle 6,370Km -- 7.5 Hz -- ALPHA/Relaxation
Outer Core 3,500Km -- 13.5 Hz -- BETA/Concentration
Crystalline Inner Core 1,200Km -- 40 Hz -- BETA/Concentration

Delta -- Deep Sleep -- 1-4 Hz
Theta -- Light Sleep; Drowsiness -- 4-7 Hz
Alpha -- Relaxation; Meditation -- 8-13 Hz
Beta -- Mental Concentration -- 13-40 Hz

"The concordance between these traditional ranges for the frequencies of different types of brain waves and the radiuses of the Earth's spheres is remarkable. This concordance however, morever, is not something we need to go to obscure scientific journals to verify. It is amoung the most basic knowledge for students of the respective fields"

This is showing the relationship between different portions of the Earth itself and human consciousness, something i found particulary intriguing, and i think it relevant to the idea of an electrical basis for the affects on human consciousness, and connecting that with the calendar of the Mayans.

Hope you find this interesting

[Grey Cloud]

Nick C
You wrote

As far as alignment with the galactic center, whether we are presently aligned or not is irrelevant, the Mayans were not talking about galactic alignments!
"This rare galactic alignment is referred to as the Cosmic Cross. It’s considered to be an embodiment of the Sacred Tree, The Tree of Life, a tree remembered as sacred in all the world's spiritual traditions".
The Mayans (and other ancients) were not aware of galaxies, in fact the first humans to understand the meaning of 'galaxy' lived in the 20th century AD. This is a typical modern (with a New Age mystical slant) misinterpretation of myth, attaching our own metaphorical meanings, when in reality a different celestial order is being described.

Firstly, the Maya were not that ancient, being somewhat contemporaneous with the Romans. And, in my opinion, like the Romans they were inheritors and adapters of a tradition not the inventors or instigators of one.
Whether the Mayans were aware of 'galaxies' is irrelevant, as is whether considered the Milky Way a galaxy. They were talking about the Earth and the solar system lining up with the galactic centre in conjunction with the precessional movement of the zodiac. They weren't the only ancients who were aware of a galactic centre. The word 'galaxy' comes from the Greek and the Romans called it the Via Lactea.

The 'universe' and 'alignments' described by the Mayans (it should be familiar to those reading Dave Talbott's entries in the "Origin of Myth" forum) is none other than the Polar connfiguration. The center of this Mayan cosmos is not the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, but the rather the pivot around which the all (celestial sphere as viewed from Earth) was centered. The great god governing from his stationary throne.

Is that not a case of a 'typical modern' (with a Scientific rationalistic slant) 'misinterpretation of myth, attaching our own metaphorical meanings'.
Your description of human sacrifices is you projecting your social values onto the Maya.

Attaching superior mystical or philosophical knowledge to ancient man is wishful thinking on the part of modern man.

Why? I would be wasting my breath mentioning the mystical part of this statement but the philosophical is sufficient to prove you mistaken.
Do you believe that modern philosophy is superior to the Vedas and the Greeks?

I personally doubt if the most ancient of those cultures were even capable of such comtemplations, as I believe that conciousness is by and large a post catastrophic and relatively recent development, a la Julian Jaynes.

If I am not mistaken, Jaynes dates this development no further back than 3,000 years ago. This would the Maya firmly within the modern brain period. That consciousness does change over time was formulated by the ancients, it's part of their belief in cyclical time. Again that is in the Vedic writings, specifically in reference to the effects of the different Yugas.

So what are the roots of this 'New Age' mysticism, that there is some sort of concordance of ancient wisdom beyond the understanding of modern man, who has become unnaturally divorced from the spiritual connections to his environment? It is the recycling of the Myth of the Noble Savage which in turn is the yearning for the return to innocence and the lost 'Golden Age.'

Once more you speak from a position of ignorance. What you call 'New Age mysticism' has been around and discussed since at least the days of Plato. The notion of man becoming 'divorced from the spiritual connections to his environment' is also ancient and is mentioned in the Vedic writings concerning the Yugas for instance. It is absolutely nothing to do with Rousseau's nonsense of the Noble Savage.
Incidentally, man cannot do 'unnatural' as man is part of the natural.

Some of the ways various cultures have expressed the destruction of the 'Golden Age', expulsion from the Garden of Eden, and the subsequent Doomsday threats, is that man is being punished for his sins, or at the mercy of the whims of capricious gods, rather than
realizing that he is just a victim of an impersonal natural process.

Yes some have believed such things and indeed some believe them still. Such beliefs are not however, part of the Ancient Wisdom or Perennial Philosophy.
Can you or science prove that man 'is just a victim of an impersonal natural process'?

When in reality, primitive (and/or ancient) man lives/lived (thru no fault of his own) in a brutal Malthusian world of self imposed repressive and ritualistic social institutions, tribal warfare, pestilence, natural disaster, and famine.

That sounds like a fair description of the modern world.
(You didn't give a source for your quotes)

[lizzie]

shrunkensimon said:

I wish I understood enough technical knowledge to throw this stuff back in people’s faces.

Oh, why waste your time acquiring technical knowledge that would be lost on a person such as that. Idiocy deserves idiocy; invent your own “God Particle” and cut into his “profit margin.” I could serve as your “fashion adviser.” I’ll give you a totally cool look that will prove once and for all that your “God Particle” is the best!

Nick C said:

The Mayan calendar charts the evolution of consciousness of the human species, and this is not based on mechanical properties, ie celestial bodies.

John Calleman would agree with you:

http://www.calleman.com/

What makes the Mayan calendar fundamentally different from other calendars in existence in the world is that its various symbols are reflective of the evolution of consciousness in the cosmos. This is in contrast to calendars from other cultures or religions that are based on astronomical cycles in our own solar system, such as the solar year or the moon cycle

Nick C said:

The alignment is already here. Back in December, several planets, including Earth, aligned with the Galactic Centre. The thing about 2012 being about Galactic alignment is poorly understood, and is promoted as fact.

Yes, WE don’t understand the “alignment thing.” Shame on us clever "modern" humans!

What is unique about this particular planetary alignment that made the ancients perceive it as a time of spiritual ascension and/or possible global cataclysm?

Is it related specifically to solar activity? What is there within the solar system that could affect solar activity?

Is there something about the sun’s particular alignment with Jupiter and Saturn in particular (and Mars and Venus secondarily) that would cause an increase in sunspots, solar flares and/or solar instability? Or is there some force from outside our solar system that perturbs the sun (and all the planets)?

Is a “galactic superwave” produced during such an alignment –- a gigantic wave of cosmic radiation that bombards our planet? Would this wave enter and exit through the so-called stargates? Or is there a regular cosmic visitor (a solar binary dark star) that returns every 10,000 years or so from beyond our solar system. Would it enter and exit by the stargates?

The precession of the equinox seems to be the oldest cosmic drama the ancients mapped out. Agricultural societies need a predictable yearly calendar to plant and harvest their crops. They don’t need to plan 10,000 years into the future to keep track of the seasonal harvests

Nick C said:

Most readers here would agree that wormholes are nothing but a mathematical fantasy.

Well, what if the “wormhole” is really a vortex?

The Universal Vortical Singularity
http://www.singularvortex.com/WFE%20on% ... xy_cluster

Hypothetically, based on the model of Universal Vortical Singularity, those 10 million super cluster of galaxies on their enormous molecular super galactic spheroids are on an ultra galactic vortex revolving around an ultra galactic center; the geometrical structure of universe is the paradigms of suspended spheroids and ultra galactic vortex in progressive order that have homogeneously interweaved.

Nick C said:

As far as alignment with the galactic center, whether we are presently aligned or not is irrelevant, the Mayans were not talking about galactic alignments!

The Mayans were not aware of the galaxies as WE would define them? Shame on them that they can’t be as smart as we 21st century humans!

When in reality, primitive (and/or ancient) man lives/lived (thru no fault of his own) in a brutal Malthusian world of self imposed repressive and ritualistic social institutions, tribal warfare, pestilence, natural disaster, and famine.

Hmm! Some authors agree with you; others totally disagree with you. I believe this is called “different viewpoints” or something like that.

War before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_18614114

Imagine all the People: Human Nature, War, Peace & Humanism
http://atheism.about.com/od/abouthumani ... uman_2.htm

Power in Eden: The Emergence of Gender Hierarchies in the Ancient World
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Eden-Emerge ... 1412021413

Saharasia: The 4000 BCE Origins of Child Abuse, Sex-Repression, Warfare and Social Violence
http://matriarchy.info/index.php?option ... view&id=21

shrunkensimon said:

Were the Mayans aware of acoustical engineering physics/waveguides?

Acoustical Society of America
http://www.acoustics.org/press/136th/press_release.html

Ancient Recording from the Mayans?

Clap your hands inside the Mayan pyramid at Chichen Itza, located in Mexico's northern Yucatan, and you will hear intriguing pulselike echoes emanating from any of the building's limestone staircases, even those in partial ruins. Archaeologists have typically dismissed these "chirped" echoes as an unintended design defect. Performing an analysis of the acoustical physics responsible for this effect, acoustical consultant David Lubman attributes these echoes to a "picket fence effect" resulting from the reflections of sound from the stairs. As Lubman points out, the chirped echoes seem to resemble the primary call of the Mayan sacred bird, the resplendent quetzal. Lubman will present recorded sound samples which show close similarities between the echoes and the bird sounds. Lubman argues that the simple engineering required to intentionally design this feature falls well within the capabilities of the stone-age Mayan culture."If the hypothesis of intentional design is true," Lubman says, "the chirped echo may be the world's oldest known sound recording!"

(If you can’t beat them; join them and bore from within!)

And speaking of sound...

A most amazing invention
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKyH8B1y ... re=related

[polarityparadox]

hey forum,

Having perused much of the mayan alignment literature I have come to the conclusion that they were predicting the reinstatement of the primary plasma column in our atmosphere. Looking carefully at the construction (insanely amazing engineering with powerful electrically important components!!) of their various megalithic pyramidal structures (which I think are most likely older than the conventional dating suggests), I would say that they actually were able to "call down" their own plasma pillars. Why, is the important question...

This leads into a whole other domain of considering that ancient advanced societies has completely different interests than us, because their consciousness was qualitatively different. I use the work of Rudolf Steiner (creator of biodynamic farming, waldorf schools, anthroposophic medicine, etc.) as a touchstone for helping me understand how humanity in the past simply did not have individual egos with dominant intellectual capacities like we do today. Their more union, atavistically connected to the elements of nature type of consciousness allowed them to engage an aspect of their nature that we today are not very familiar with. One of our fellow posters here, Kevin, a rockin' dowser, is much closer to a good representation of how they more probably operated. Their science (kennenschaft as opposed to wissenschaft) was grounded in qualitative distinctions that led them to create "machines" that could heighten and empower the consciousness they operated out of.

John Major Jenkins has done some great work in grounding the the qualitative nature of mayan consciousness (as the remainders of an earlier atavistic consciousness, in my mind) in quantitative analysis. His various books and articles are well worth reading to get a sense of the whole situation. Throw in our understanding of ancient plasma reality and suddenly their "monuments" become much more intelligent and logical.

http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/Article/ ... ments.html

And if you consider the idea that a plasma column could not possibly again appear, think twice. I think there is excellent circumstantial evidence to support this possibility:

http://rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm

Look at the series of this man's videos and judge for yourself. Mighty curious how these gigantic "objects" in near space can be captured with a regular video camera but nary a word is to be heard in the mainstream media about visible objects the size of , at least, the space station! Also, look into the videos of the NASA space shuttle tether debacle where their wire tether attracts all these huge plasma formations, frying it, "ufo's" for a lot of people who have looked at these videos without the requisite grounding in plasma processes. The whole solar system is moving into an area of space (LISM) that is energetically increasing its "bow shock" by 10 times thus leading to the conclusion that 10 times more plasma energy is flooding the solar system as a whole and that was from data 10 or 15 years ago! It could be much more now. I think this is a possible explanation for the re-flaring of the holmes comet. Witness the radically changing conditions on all planets, not just on planet earth due to "global warming". What a joke, I guess we are affecting the whole solar system with our supposed greenhouse gas emissions!!!!

http://www.enterprisemission.com/_artic … tary_1.htm

We keep bringing up here, on this forum, the idea that electricity affects consciousness, I say the evidence is all around us that it is in fact happening right in front of our eyes! Consciousness is accelerating, both positively AND negatively. Consciousness is being potentiated as we speak.

I see that the primal archetypes of this whole saturn evolution hypothesis are alive and powerful in modern consciousness today more than ever. Note the complete electrical analogies the matrix series emphasizes, note the the lord of the ring series with it's ring (of saturn) of power and the great burning eye on the column that creates death and destruction. Notice how Moloch (saturn) is "worshipped" in Bohemian Grove by the world elite bankers, royalty and politicians (just google this, very bizarre). Suddenly you begin to consider that there is a hidden theme here that runs deep, the desire for the return of the "gods" with all their "plasma" powers. The insane elite are dialed into this, I think, look at all their fascination with EM manipulation. Not that it will happen the way "they" think, though...

Look carefully at common culture. Have you noticed all the trilogies that have come out: the matrix series, the lord of the rings, spiderman, the pirates of the caribbean; shades here of the three fold conjunction, no less. Check out the new movie Ironman, I was shocked at how perfectly they modelled saturn, mars and venus through the actors and roles, and in the context of plasma arc technology no less!!

And most amazing, look at the three presidential runners, John McCain, the obvious saturn figure, then you have Clinton, clearly venus, and then Obama, the charismatic Mars. What is going on here?? The hidden psychology of ancient saturn reality is welling up in human consciousness faster and faster because of the higher and higher potential of energy building up all around us. We are, I believe, supposed to throw off these old archetypes of domination from our modern, newly birthing consciousness: true sovereignty consciousness. How to do so is the great quest(ion)! The next few years promise to be very interesting, no doubt about it...

PolarityParadox

[lizzie]

Polarityparadox said

Having perused much of the Mayan alignment literature I have come to the conclusion that they were predicting the reinstatement of the primary plasma column in our atmosphere.

I agree.

Polarityparadox said

This leads into a whole other domain of considering that ancient advanced societies have completely different interests than we, because their consciousness was qualitatively different

.

I agree with that, too.

Perhaps then we should ask ourselves if we believe that the atmosphere back then was more highly charged.

Polarityparadox said:

Look at the series of this man's videos and judge for yourself. Mighty curious how these gigantic "objects" in near space can be captured with a regular video camera but nary a word is to be heard in the mainstream media about visible objects the size of , at least, the space station!

But this is exactly why I posted the thread on Dr. Dmitriev. These are “vacuum domains”. I thought he had provided the most “logical” explanation yet as to what the ET phenomena might be.

http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... ?f=8&t=616

And I found, especially from Russia, a whole bunch of intriguing research that shows that there is a consciousness field. Consciousness is not just something in the mind — it’s actually the energy that goes into making matter.

There’s actually plenty of evidence to show — especially from Russia, where they call them “vacuum domains” or “natural, self-luminous formations”. Lots of people might call them UFOs without realizing that, in some cases, when you see these balls of light, it’s just another natural physical phenomenon that our scientists don’t really acknowledge.

polarityparadox said:

Suddenly you begin to consider that there is a hidden theme here that runs deep, the desire for the return of the "gods" with all their "plasma" powers.

Sometimes I feel as if I have entered not only the Age of the Apocalypse but also the Age of the Archetypes. I feel like a spectator with a front row seat. I am watching the unfolding of the Grand Cycle of the Ages. It's all happening before me now on the same epic scale that I felt when I read the ancient stories as a child. I remember the awe back then; I thought it was all so magical! Here I am now living in the "real world" as an "adult" and nothing feels "real" anymore.

[polarityparadox]

Polarityparadox said

This leads into a whole other domain of considering that ancient advanced societies have completely different interests than we, because their consciousness was qualitatively different

.

I agree with that, too.

Perhaps then we should ask ourselves if we believe that the atmosphere back then was more highly charged.

Polarityparadox said:

Look at the series of this man's videos and judge for yourself. Mighty curious how these gigantic "objects" in near space can be captured with a regular video camera but nary a word is to be heard in the mainstream media about visible objects the size of , at least, the space station!



But this is exactly why I posted the thread on Dr. Dmitriev. These are “vacuum domains”. I thought he had provided the most “logical” explanation yet as to what the ET phenomena might be.

Quite right, Lizzie,

I am certain that their atmosphere was completely different back then, its only logical from the evidence of Peratt. It is interesting to read through Steiner's explanations of how humanity lived in ancient times. He discusses how matter was more intangible and "fluid". It was just not as solid, and was more easily affected by consciousness. The work of Dmitriev is great, I first came across it through the research of David Wilcock. However, I am not willing to reduce all ufo's to just plasma formations but it is quite obvious that many sightings are of these formations....

[nick c]

Hello, GreyCloud:

Firstly, the Maya were not that ancient, being somewhat contemporaneous with the Romans. And, in my opinion, like the Romans they were inheritors and adapters of a tradition not the inventors or instigators of one.

The reason the Maya were brought up was because the God Particle article of the op referred to their mythology.
I never said anything about the age of Mayan civilization, only that the mythology was consistent with the Saturn Theory. I do not accept conventional chronologies of Mesoamerica, opting for older origins. I can accept the suggestion that their traditions were inherited/adopted from an older culture, but are we to disregard analysis of Mayan myth because it had a predecessor and one that is mostly unavailable?

They were talking about the Earth and the solar system lining up with the galactic centre in conjunction with the precessional movement of the zodiac.

Here we disagree. I realize what the article in question was refering to, however, I see nothing about precession or the lining up with the galactic center in the quote. What I do see is references to a sky that was very different than todays...a World Tree, an alignment of stars, the serpent, ropes, the substance flowing from the God, and of course Quetzalcoatl; whose heart was torn from him and became the feathered serpent, which is associated with the planet Venus. These are consistent with the various aspects of the polar configuation. All these themes are repeated in other mythologies from around the globe.

They weren't the only ancients who were aware of a galactic centre. The word 'galaxy' comes from the Greek and the Romans called it the Via Lactea.

That say's nothing about their understanding of the whereabouts of the galactic center. The word 'Neptune' comes to us from the Romans via Nethuns of the Etruscans, does that mean the Romans knew of the planet Neptune? The "center" is the top of the World Tree, or the Axis Mundi, World Mountain, Pillar, etc. around which all revolved, this imagery appears around the world. Perhaps you celebrate it at Christmas, originally the Saturnalia, when you put a star or an angel on top of your Christmas (World) Tree, and wait for Santa to bring you presents from his home in the North Pole.

If I am not mistaken, Jaynes dates this development no further back than 3,000 years ago. This would the Maya firmly within the modern brain period.

Again I put limited value in chronological estimates. However, Jaynes did not hypothesize the simultaneous emergence of conciousness among all cultures. On p155-6 of The Origin of Conciousness In the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind Jaynes describes the Maya as "bicameral," and presents the case that they remained so until the advent of the Spaniards. However, I mentioned Jaynes only as a sidenote and in my own opinion.

Your description of human sacrifices is you projecting your social values onto the Maya.

How would you describe it if you were the one forcibly restrained and getting his heart ripped out in a pathological ritual? I would call it the brutal reenactment of the death of the God. What did the sacrificee think, was he okay with the situation? I say pathological because it is symptomatic of a sick society. I do not judge the Maya, any more than other cultures, past or present, if you read on in my post, I wrote:

Not that I am picking on the Mayans, this type of schizoid behaviour appears in numerous forms in all ancient cultures. Doomsday fear, and brutal ritualistic reenactments of the cosmic drama of our past, are ingrained in our social institutions and still profoundly affect us today.

You do misunderstand what I have written. I am not putting our civilization on a pedestal and looking down at our ancestors as undeveloped and inferior people. Their achievements in engineering, art, etc are remarkable. However, they were like an individual who just received a blow to the head, staggering and struggling to remember. My point was that this sick behaviour is still with us today, we live in a world of genocide, threats to annihilate entire cities and nations, or worse. We now have the capability to achieve doomsday through our own efforts. We are the same as the Maya, we exhibit the same pathological behaviour on a larger scale.

Quote:
Nick wrote:
When in reality, primitive (and/or ancient) man lives/lived (thru no fault of his own) in a brutal Malthusian world of self imposed repressive and ritualistic social institutions, tribal warfare, pestilence, natural disaster, and famine.

Grey Cloud wrote:That sounds like a fair description of the modern world.
(You didn't give a source for your quotes)

I agree, it is a fair description of the modern world...
If no source was given in my post then it is my opinion, much of it is based on:
http://www.varchive.org/lec/lethbridge/amnesia.htm

Nick