Phil Plait's (of BAUT) "Big" Mistake

[pln2bz]

I urge everybody to weigh in on Phil Plait and the BAUT over here in the open-access comments section of networkworld ...

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/28014

If everyone makes mistakes -- and they do -- why are so many people unwilling to accept the mistakes of others (not to mention their own)?

[...]

In actuallity, your providing those 6th graders (and many others) with an invaluable lesson about how science works. Science makes mistakes. Science can change when better answers are found. I think those kids will be much richer in their quest for knowledge because of it. Kudos.

[...]

After all, it's OK to make mistakes, not only in spelling, science, journalism and responding to bloggers, but in all walks of life. That doesn't mean that mistakes don't have consequences or that there isn't a world of difference between saying methane when you mean nitrogen ... and, say, drunken driving.

If you've been stymied by the BAUT in getting your point across, this might be a good time to vent a little bit on their "mistakes" ...

[rduke]

Not to be a bung hole or anything..

But Phil Plait or BAUT is not worthy of the tendon wear...

If him and his plastic dorks want to ride a dinosaur into the tar.. let them..

When I used to read their bluster... it was so hollow and depraved of vision.. that I would literally get depressed for them..

The massive EU threads that used to be on that forum .. ie: 160 pages .... were such beatdowns of the mainstream.. it is no wonder that they are such .. rule nazis, and create them as they go along...

[nick c]

This forum is much better than BAUT!
They live in an artificial fantasy universe where they can contemplate 'event horizons' and what happened one millionth of a second after the Big Bang.
It's not real, but it is secure.
The planets were formed so many (whatever the current figure) billions of years ago and everything has proceeded like a fine tuned swiss watch eversince.
It is very reassuring.

Nick

[Faderbaby]

I always liked the Bad Astronomy website. Debunking the "Apollo Hoax" is great as far as I'm concerned. It's a huge insult to suggest that we didn't go to the moon. I think Phil Plait is funny and interesting. I checked out the BAUT forum. EU theory is part of the discussion there. What more do you want? The question is bigger and longer than one human lifetime. Getting caught up in the emotion of one thread on an Internet forum doesn't matter. EU and PC will begin to make more and more of an impression on the public in coming years. Already, there are huge opportunities to promote EU/PC into public awareness. That's where the research money comes from. That's how, ultimately, NASA missions are created.

Big Breaks for EU/PC:

• "Pioneer Anomoly"
  NASA Mission to check Ionospheric Fields and Earthquake Prediction, and...
  British Ministry of Defence: "UFOs are Plasmas!"

So, you currently have: Two (possible) NASA missions with big EU implications!! (That deserves two tacky exclamation points). And, the old "flying saucer" mystery solved by atmospheric plasma? Wow. Somebody should be thrilled and that person or persons is probably on this forum.

[shrunkensimon]

It's a huge insult to suggest that we didn't go to the moon.

It is? As far as im aware, its a huge insult to my intelligence and the general public at large that NASA tries to pass off the Moon landing with such pathetic evidence. It is their job to convince us, and not for those who see through the bullshit to prove them wrong! They're not much better at it in the present day either.. better technology, more streamlined, but still relying on the gullable masses to suck up their rubbish.

Oh, and you are aware that Phil talks about the "vacuum of space" within the very same section about the Apollo Hoax, right? The guy is a total douche..

[Faderbaby]

It is?

Yes, it is. It's an insult that is hardly worth dignifying -- except in the sense that you have to say something to the kind of people who, similarly, discount, say, The Holocaust. But, hold on! Let's keep it friendly. People are free to believe anything. Space aliens live next door; whatever.

As far as Plait, why so angry? He's funny and he also believes what he believes. That's fine. It took how many generations to reach the current, accepted, astrophysical model of the Universe. Six? Seven? Logic suggests that there is tremendous momentum there. Emotional responses (anger) will not change that momentum. Other events might. New generations might. It's a long, slow, process and should complement existing science, focusing on the "gaps" (I listed three opportunities earlier). Put the energy there. My opinion. Here's why:

First, you're attacting their strength, which is conceiving and implementing publicly-popular missions. Where's your alternative? These guys can land on the Moon and Mars seemingly at will and with total precision. I personally think that it's more productive to focus on strengths of EU/PC theory and application than to attack the things NASA is really, really good at.

[shrunkensimon]

"except in the sense that you have to say something to the kind of people who, similarly, discount, say, The Holocaust"

I read that line, and then i turned off.. people don't discount that the holocaust happened (the smart ones anyway), they argue that we're not being told the full picture. Big difference. I have nothing more to say to you.

[MGmirkin]

Boys, boys, put 'em away... ;o)

Let's keep it friendly. As to the NASA issue, the story has already been debated on too many forums to count and probably no resolutions to be had by further bickering. The moon landing is part of history (whether correctly or erroneously). Those making claims of fraud against what is otherwise considered a legitimate event bear the burden of proof, in my opinion (as with any assertion). That's all the more I'll say on that.

The Holocaust, again, is a pretty well documented event. Those making assertions to the contrary also bear the burden of proof. Other than that, I'm not touching it with a 100-foot pole. Politics and religion are generally verboten, as they tend to descend into partisan bickering if not handled in a rigorous and friendly manner.

So, in any event, let's keep it friendly and on topic.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin

[Faderbaby]

I think that's exactly what I said. Hostility is not a way to further any ideology. In fact, just the opposite can work much more effectively. An example is... Phil Plait! Successful behavior is the thing to emulate in order to promote ideas. "Phil" (so to speak) or someone like him, has a much better chance of "changing hearts and minds". Just to re-state the obvious. (And, I'll still talk to anybody -- I rule nothing out).

[upriver]

Boys, boys, put 'em away... ;o)

Let's keep it friendly. As to the NASA issue, the story has already been debated on too many forums to count and probably no resolutions to be had by further bickering. The moon landing is part of history (whether correctly or erroneously). Those making claims of fraud against what is otherwise considered a legitimate event bear the burden of proof, in my opinion (as with any assertion). That's all the more I'll say on that.

The Holocaust, again, is a pretty well documented event. Those making assertions to the contrary also bear the burden of proof. Other than that, I'm not touching it with a 100-foot pole. Politics and religion are generally verboten, as they tend to descend into partisan bickering if not handled in a rigorous and friendly manner.

So, in any event, let's keep it friendly and on topic.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin

You dont get it. Science is a Story written by the victor, along with money, history, war, politics, medicine and 911. And TV is the propaganda machine.
I think if you delete any references to the Holocaust in this thread, you should delete them all instead of parroting the Zionist point of view....
You need to read the opposing literature to get a balanced view. And I dont mean white supremacist stuff...

This is coming from a African American and I'm definitely not anti-Semitic!!. Truth plays no favorites.....

[Pink Swan]

Hello All,

I've been looking into the EU theory for about a year and a half now, beginning by hearing Mr. Talbott and Mr. Thornhill on the radio, then ordering their DVD and lithograph. This is my first post at this forum, though I've been reading here for a while. I think there are a lot of good points to make with the Saturn Hypothesis, and am glad to also see that it is open to scrutiny and dicussion.

What does disappoint me, though, is that it looks like the "official version" of all stories in history are what is supported on this forum, and I for one do not agree with any of these stories. Does this board also support the official version of 9-11? Can't you just not take a side to any of them? If you stay neutral, you will not lose your audience from one "side" or the other. Why does the mod say it's a done deal just because it's what is written in history? You are not even saying that about the plasma theory of the universe, or that it's up to everyone to disprove it. The last poster makes a very good point that history is written by the victor, who will always come across as the injured party. We do not know the whole truth about anything, and we know very little, as is being discovered even with this EU theory.

Yes, just a little research will show there is an agenda behind everything, and I hope this board won't get caught up in supporting it just because certain things have been written as established fact.

[Sparks]

My latest YouTube video focuses on BAUT in particular and pseudoskepticism in general

BAD ASTRONOMY Vs GOOD SCIENCE
Debunking the Debunkers
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhYTGTDYro

Regards

Soupdragon42